Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[marks]

It's not a silly question to anyone who has a high Christology.

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things just as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

How is it that the Son of God / God incarnate could be tempted as we are?

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God; And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)

So, is the "Sin Nature" resident in human flesh, or should we regard Paul's use of the term "sarx" ("flesh") as merely metaphorical for the Sin Nature (as the authors of the NIV have translated)?

Sin is resident in corrupt human flesh, and so Jesus was the Last Adam, a new Humanity. We are transfered from Adam's humanity to Christ's.

Were Jesus to have been born with a "sin nature", that would mean He was born in corrupt human flesh, and would not qualify for our sacrifice.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

I believe people get a lot mixed up ideas when they believe that Jesus is God from birth as a baby boy, if Jesus was God then he would have never died, inside of Jesus was the Word of God but encased around the Word of God was the fleshly body Jesus.


The body was used as a sacrifice for sin… if that body had been God during that time it would have never died.

Do you believe in the trinity @Charlie24? I personally don’t. But I do see Jesus as the begotten Son who became the Lord God Almighty after everything was said and done after resurrection.

 

[marks]

So therefore is it safe to say that Jesus had a sinful nature. Absolutely.

Absolutely not.

The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

This is a very poor translation, and changes what is said.

Jesus came in the 'likeness of sinful flesh', not "in sinful flesh". If Jesus were born in corrupt flesh, He would have been a blemished sacrifice.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes he had came in the likeness of sinful flesh but never sinned in his flesh, otherwise he would have been blemished your right.

He was born but he never sinned so his flesh was the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins, in which he did become sin for us, on our behalf.

@marks.

 

[PinSeeker]

We are transfered from Adam's humanity to Christ's.

Well, yes and no. Not in full yet ~ we still succumb to sin... here and there... <chuckles>... but this will happen on Christ's return. For now, we have been justified ~ made just through faith by God because of the righteousness of Christ, and therefore credited with His righteousness, as Abraham was.

Were Jesus to have been born with a "sin nature", that would mean He was born in corrupt human flesh, and would not qualify for our sacrifice.

Ah, disagree. If He were not born with this sin nature ~ and then, though tempted in every way were are, having conquered it perfectly in every way ~ He would not qualify as our Mediator and Sacrifice, and none of us would have any hope of salvation. But yet... God did this indescribable, unfathomable thing for us.

Grace and peace to you, Marks.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe people get a lot mixed up ideas when they believe that Jesus is God

I believe people get a lot of mixed up ideas when they still have not even read their whole Bible and think they know more than those who have.

John says of Jesus, 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

 

[Charlie24]

Yes he had came in the likeness of sinful flesh but never sinned in his flesh, otherwise he would have been blemished your right.

He was born but he never sinned so his flesh was the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins, in which he did become sin for us, on our behalf.

@marks.

Well if this true there was no need for the virgin birth, being born of the Spirit.

So what do your teachers give as the reason for the virgin birth?

 

[MatthewG]

Why is it so hard for people to accept that Jesus was born with a sinful nature? He could have went along with the temptations of the devil, wouldn’t that have been a sinful actions of he had done it?

Why do people strive so hard to defend this belief? That Jesus couldn’t have made the choice to have denied his Father?

He very much could have?

@stunnedbygrace i believe that but people need to understand it was the Word that was God who came into the flesh that was born and named Jesus. I’m not disagreeing at all with John 1:1 maybe you see it as that.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes he had came in the likeness of sinful flesh but never sinned in his flesh, otherwise he would have been blemished your right. He was born but he never sinned so his flesh was the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins, in which he did become sin for us, on our behalf.

Grace and peace to you, Matthew.

 

[MatthewG]

Well if this true there was no need for the virgin birth, being born of the Spirit.

So what do your teachers give as the reason for the virgin birth?

She was highly favored.

“‘Thus hath the Lord done to me, in days in which He looked upon [me], to take away my reproach among men.’ And in the sixth month was the messenger Gabriel sent by God, to a city of Galilee, the name of which [is] Nazareth, to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. And the messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;’ and she, having seen, was troubled at his word, and was reasoning of what kind this salutation may be. And the messenger said to her, ‘Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.’ And Mary said unto the messenger, ‘How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?’ And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:25-35‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

@PinSeeker it is good to know that there are other people who have seen the problem as well, grace and peace to you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why is it so hard for people to accept that Jesus was born with a sinful nature? He could have went along with the temptations of the devil, wouldn’t that have been a sinful actions of he had done it?

Why do people strive so hard to defend this belief? That Jesus couldn’t have made the choice to have denied his Father?

He very much could have?

@stunnedbygrace i believe that but people need to understand it was the Word that was God who came into the flesh that was born and named Jesus. I’m not disagreeing at all with John 1:1 maybe you see it as that.

According to John, He was God. Jesus was God in a human body. To those who believe this, it is absurd to argue over whether God can possibly sin. It seems preposterous to us to think God was holding His breath for 33 years, afraid there was a possibility Jesus might sin and ruin the whole plan to save us.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

According to John, He was God. Jesus was God in a human body. To those who believe this, it is absurd to argue over whether God can possibly sin. It seems preposterous to us to think God was holding His breath for 33 years, afraid there was a possibility Jesus might sin and ruin the whole plan to save us.

By the same token it's equally preposterous that Jesus had no potential to fail. He was tempted. The temptation was real. It's because he did not succumb to temptation that he was without sin, not because he was incapable of sin.

 

[MatthewG]

I tend to disagree with a lot of people in
Which they have been traditionally been taught… not that I hate them, or not that I do not believe their relationship with God is authentic.

I just don’t agree with a lot of traditions taught by men and still encourage that reading the Bible and studying the scriptures for your own self by the Holy Spirit guiding you, it will tend to put to death those traditions.

 

[Charlie24]

She was highly favored.

“‘Thus hath the Lord done to me, in days in which He looked upon [me], to take away my reproach among men.’ And in the sixth month was the messenger Gabriel sent by God, to a city of Galilee, the name of which [is] Nazareth, to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. And the messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;’ and she, having seen, was troubled at his word, and was reasoning of what kind this salutation may be. And the messenger said to her, ‘Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.’ And Mary said unto the messenger, ‘How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?’ And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:25-35‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

@PinSeeker it is good to know that there are other people who have seen the problem as well, grace and peace to you.

Christ was born by the Spirit, of a virgin, that He may be called the Son of God.

She had never know man.

Isaiah prophesied that a virgin shall conceive and they shall call His name Immanuel (God with us).

This prophesy fulfilled is proof that man was not involved in His birth.

If man had been involved, He would have been the same as us and could not have fulfilled that prophecy.

 

[marks]

Yes he had came in the likeness of sinful flesh but never sinned in his flesh, otherwise he would have been blemished your right.

He was born but he never sinned so his flesh was the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins, in which he did become sin for us, on our behalf.

@marks.

In the likeness, yes, but He was NOT born in corrupted sinful flesh. I will oppose that heresy fully.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

By the same token it's equally preposterous that Jesus had no potential to fail. He was tempted. The temptation was real. It's because he did not succumb to temptation that he was without sin, not because he was incapable of sin.

I guess it depends on if you see Jesus as God in a human body or not…

 

[Nancy]

Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

I do not believe at all that Jesus was born with a sin nature like us. Yet, He was tempted through the flesh, and of course, Satan.
I wonder how many times Jesus was tempted to strike the Pharisees with lightning, lol.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I guess it depends on if you see Jesus as God in a human body or not…

I see Jesus as a union of God and man. He is the fulcrum around which everything turns. It is because he is human that he can speak on our behalf. It is because he is God he can speak on behalf of the Father.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s alright @Charlie24,

We aren’t talking about Jesus being born by a man… we know that he was still born of flesh… by being in the Mother Mary’s womb…

I’m not suggesting or saying a man impregnated Mary at all.

Jesus was born, being the Word of God made flesh.

But as it turns out people have trouble accepting the fact that Jesus could have sinned on his own merit but was held back by the word of God and the Spirit of God with Him.

I don’t care what people believe, people on the board are willfully discussing it.

Saying Jesus had a sin nature makes people feel a certain way (it doesn’t make it any less true) as though Jesus wasn’t holy or something he very much was, he was very much also indwelled by the Word of God inside of his outward fleshly body that named Jesus.

It is alright if some of this audience doesn’t understand or even care to try to think about these things. It doesn’t effect salvation by any means.

The word of God born flesh named Jesus was living inside the flesh that was named Jesus, and God was very much with them, named Immanuel.

Im not trying to share anything new that is not already there for people to learn about by their own selves. Ya know?

Hope you read all this.

 

[MatthewG]

In the likeness, yes, but He was NOT born in corrupted sinful flesh. I will oppose that heresy fully.

Much love!

It’s just a difference of seeming the matter, not heresy. But maybe your right and I’m wrong. There was atleast one person on the board who had come to the same revelation about Jesus having also a very fleshly nature or sin nature just like me and you and Adam and Eve. Maybe people hold Jesus up so high they could never see him as a Man, a man who was tempted and it was very real temptations by the devil, and he was tempted and no one can get around that. If Jesus had failed and sin the flesh would have became corrupt.

I am reminded of when Moses came down from the mountain and the people had corrupted themselves by having made a golden calf.

It is the same picture for Jesus, if he would have sinned just one time, his whole sacrificial body would have been Defiled but the word of God in the fleshly body wasn’t gonna to let the body of Jesus fail, and neither was the Holy Spirit of God within Him, as he prayed to God and lived on ever single word of God never failing in the law or temptation by Satan.

What an honor it is to be made right with God because of everything that His Son was capable of doing and we ourselves could never do, however we now have help by the Holy Spirit to even overcome our own fleshly problems but it doesn’t make us right with God because of something we may do or don’t it is totally faith on the one whom, died, was buried and raised again.

Praise be to God and the Lord Yeshua!

Ya know?