Was Noah's flood global?

[The Learner]

kenite
#7014
Qayin (kah'-yin); the same as OT:7013 (with a play upon the affinity to OT:7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:
KJV - Cain, Kenite (-s).

Answer: In the Hebrew Dictionary, and in a correct Strong's Concordance it's the word #7017 and it is 'sons of Cain', members of the tribe of Kenites. When the word Kenite is used, you simply are saying "Cain" in the Hebrew language.

kenite
#7017
Qeyniy (kay-nee'); or Qiyniy (1 Chron 2:55) (kee-nee'); patronymic from OT:7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin - Kenite
KJV - Kenite.

*Your Strong's Concordance may not be accurate, newer versions leave information out. The Chapel has accurate copies available or see below for purchasing an accurate copy.

I did not use primative Strong. I used something more advanced. It uses History, Primary sources and scriptures.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I did not use primative Strong. I used something more advanced. It uses History, Primary sources and scriptures.

What makes your sources more advanced, simply because they are newer?

Do you also believe the manuscripts are primitive thus we can find a more advanced source?

 

[MatthewG]

Maybe not, remember pangea? Maybe it all happened in the middle.

 

[The Learner]

What makes your sources more advanced, simply because they are newer?

Do you also believe the manuscripts are primitive thus we can find a more advanced source?

go to my source, I gave the link. I already wrote why they are superior. Strongs book leads to well known word study fallacies.

 

[The Learner]

What makes your sources more advanced, simply because they are newer?

Do you also believe the manuscripts are primitive thus we can find a more advanced source?

KENITES

ke'-nits (ha-qeni, haqeni; in Nu 24:22 and Jdg 4:11, qayin; of hoi Kenaioi, hoi Kinaioi): A tribe of nomads named in association with various other peoples. They are first mentioned along with the Kadmonites and Kenizzites among the peoples whose land was promised to Abram (Gen 15:19). Balaam, seeing them from the heights of Moab; puns upon their name, which resembles the Hebrew ken, "a nest," prophesying their destruction although their nest was "set in the rock"--possibly a reference to Sela, the city. Moses' father-in-law, Jethro, is called "the priest of Midian" in Ex 3:1; 18:1; but in Jdg 1:16 he is described as a Kenite, showing a close relation between the Kenites and Midian. At the time of Sisera's overthrow, Heber, a Kenite, at "peace" with Jabin, king of Hazor, pitched his tent far North of his ancestral seats (Jdg 4:17). There were Kenites dwelling among the Amalekites in the time of Saul (1 Sam 15:6). They were spared because they had "showed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt." David, in his answer to Achish, links the Kenites with the inhabitants of the South of Judah (1 Sam 27:10). Among the ancestors of the tribe of Judah, the Chronicler includes the Kenite Hammath, the father of the Rechabites (1 Ch 2:55). These last continued to live in tents, practicing the ancient nomadic customs (Jer 35:6 ff).ichly varied landscape, With smiling cornfields, and hills clothed with oak and terebinth.
The word qeni in Aramaic means "smith." Professor Sayce thinks they may really have been a tribe of smiths, resembling "the gipsies of modern Europe, as well as the traveling tinkers or blacksmiths of the Middle Ages" (HDB, under the word). This would account for their relations with the different peoples, among whom they would reside in pursuit of their calling.
In Josephus they appear as Kenetides, and in Ant, IV, vii, 3 he calls them "the race of the Shechemites."
W. Ewing Bibliography Information
Orr, James, M.A., D.D. General Editor. "Definition for 'kenites'". "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia". bible-history.com - ISBE; 1915.

 

[Truthnightmare]

go to my source, I gave the link. I already wrote why they are superior. Strongs book leads to well known word study fallacies.

That depends on what manuscripts you believe to be most accurate. The Strongs is based on the KJ and the KJ was translate from the Textus Receptus. So your argument is that the Textus Receptus is inferior to what manuscripts?

 

[The Learner]

Kenite, member of a tribe of itinerant metalsmiths related to the Midianites and the Israelites who plied their trade while traveling in the region of the Arabah (the desert rift valley extending from the Sea of Galilee to the Gulf of Aqaba) from at least the 13th century to the 9th century BC. The Kenites’ name was derived from Cain, whose descendants they were believed to be. The Kenites are mentioned several times in the Old Testament.


The father-in-law of Moses, Jethro, was a Kenite, and as priest-leader of the tribe he led in the worship of Yahweh, whom Moses later revealed to the Hebrews as their own God whom they had forgotten. In the period of the judges (12th–11th century BC), it was a Kenite woman, Jael, who killed the general of Israel’s enemies, the Canaanites.




Settling among the Israelites, Amalekites, and Canaanites, the Kenites apparently became absorbed into the tribe of Judah. Conservative groups of Kenites retained their nomadic way of life and beliefs and practices, however, and one such group, the Rechabites (2 Kings), fought alongside the rebel and future king of Israel, Jehu (reigned c. 842–c. 815), against the Omri dynasty and the worshipers of the Canaanite god Baal.

Kenite | Bedouin Tribe, Nomadic People, Desert Dwellers

Kenite, member of a tribe of itinerant metalsmiths related to the Midianites and the Israelites who plied their trade while traveling in the region of the Arabah (the desert rift valley extending from the Sea of Galilee to the Gulf of Aqaba) from at least the 13th century to the 9th century bc. The

www.britannica.com

 

[The Learner]

Kenites Archives - Institute of History, Archaeology, and Education

KENITE (Heb. קֵינִי), a large group of nomadic clans engaged chiefly in metal working. The root qyn has the same meaning in cognate Semitic languages, e.g., in Arabic qayna, "tinsmith," "craftsman"; in Syriac and Aramaic qyn'h, qyny, "metalsmith." In the Bible the word kayin (qayin) also means a weapon made of metal, probably a spear (II Sam. 21:16); and the proper noun "Tubal-Cain, who forged all the implements of copper and iron" (Gen. 4:22) is a compound name in which the second noun indicates the trade. There is a connection between this trade and the story of *Cain who wandered from place to place and was protected by a special sign: "Therefore, if anyone kills Cain, sevenfold vengeance shall be taken on him" (Gen. 4:15). Among primitive tribes to the present day there are clans of coppersmiths and tinsmiths whom it is considered a grave offense to harm.
The Kenites came from the south: Midian, Edom, and the Arabah. Hobab ( *Jethro ), son of Reuel the Midianite, who aided the Israelites in the desert and served as their pathfinder (Num. 10:29–32), was also known as the Kenite (Judg. 1:16; 4:11). Enoch, son of Cain (Gen. 4:17), is also mentioned among the Midianites (Gen. 25:4; I Chron. 1:33). Balaam's prophecy about the Kenites, "Though your abode be secure, and your nest be set among cliffs" (Num. 24:21) appears to be a reference to the mountains of Midian and Edom (cf. Obad. 3–4), and Sela ("cliffs") designates perhaps the Edomite mountain-fortress Sela (today al-Saʿl near Baṣrah) around which rich copper deposits were located. The house of Rechab, which had preserved traditions of the time of the Exodus, was related to the Kenites (I Chron. 2:55), and apparently also to Ir-Nahash and Ge-Harashim (I Chron. 4:12–14), modern Khirbet Naḥās ("copper ruin," or "ruin of the copper city") in the Arabah, a copper mining center.
The Kenites were enumerated among the early peoples of Canaan, together with the Kenizzites and the Kadmonites (Gen. 15:19). Relations between the Israelites and the Kenites were good, but B. Stade and others argued for Kenite influence on Moses and the religion of Israel. This "Kenite hypothesis" (updated by Halpern and by van der Toorn) holds that YHWH was not originally the God of the Hebrews and was not even known to the Hebrews. He was originally a Kenite tribal god who became known to Moses through his Kenite father-in-law, Jethro. Moses then made YHWH known to the Hebrews, who accepted Him as their God. As observed by van der Toorn, the Kenite hypothesis nicely accounts for the absence of Yahweh from earlier pantheons, Yahweh's link with Edom (Deut. 33:2), the Kenite connection of Moses, and the Bible's positive attitude to Kenites. The major problem comes from the current scholarly view that the majority of Israelites originated in Canaan and did not trek through the desert encountering Kenites all the way as the Bible would have it. The historical role of Moses is likewise problematic. Nonetheless, the important role of the Kenites in early Israelite worship has been emphasized by the discovery of an Israelite sanctuary at *Arad . This explains the note of Judges 1:16 about the Kenite family related to Moses (according to the Septuagint descendants, this venerated family served as priests in the sanctuary). They entered the region from the "city of palm trees," which cannot here indicate Jericho, but more likely refers to Zoar or Tamar in the northern part of the Arabah. Also, Heber, the Kenite husband or clan of Jael, who was at the time of the Deborah battle in northern Ereẓ Israel near Mount Tabor belonged to the Hobab family (Judg. 4:11). It is hardly incidental that they pitched their tent at the oak (Heb. eʾlon) in Zaanaim or Zaananim, evidently a holy tree. Their connection with early Yahwistic worship does not exclude the assumption that for a good part they made their livelihood as metal craftsmen (Judg. 5:26).
Other Kenite families evidently occupied the region in the south, centering around Arad. This is the Negev of the Kenites and the cities of the Kenites referred to in the stories from the time of David (I Sam. 27:10; 30:29). These settlements apparently included Kinah near Arad (Josh. 15:22), and possibly Kain on the border of the wilderness of Judah (15:57). In the same region were also found the Amalekites, who wandered in Edom, Sinai, and the Negev, and among whom the Kenites lived. According to the Septuagint, Judges 1:16 should read "and dwelt among the Amalekites" (MT, "among the people (ʿam)"). In view of the kindness the Kenites had shown to Israel during the Exodus (I Sam. 15:6), Saul gave them friendly warning before attacking the Amalekites.​

---

BIBLIOGRAPHY:​

Abel, Geog, 1 (1933), 273; W.J.T. Phythian-Adams, Israel in the Araba (1934); Th. J. Meek, Hebrew Origins (1936), 93ff; S. Abramsky, in: Eretz Israel, 3 (1954), 116–24; W.F. Albright, in: CBQ, 25 (1963), 3–9 (incl. bibl.); idem, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan (1968), 33–37; Aharoni, in: Land, 185, 198, 259, 298; B. Mazar, in: JNES, 24 (1965), 297–303; R. De Vaux, in: Ereẓ Israel, 9 (1969), 28ff. ADD. BIBLIOGRAPHY: B. Halpern, in: ABD, 4:17–22; K. van der Toorn, DDD, 910–19.​

Kenite

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[The Learner]

This article examines the Kenite tribe, particularly considering their importance as suggested by the Kenite hypothesis. According to this hypothesis, the Kenites, and the Midianites, were the peoples who introduced Moses to the cult of Yahwism, before he was confronted by Yahweh from the burning bush. Scholars have identified the Cain narrative of Gen 4 as the possible aetiological legend of the Kenites, and Cain as the eponymous ancestor of these people. The purpose of this research is to ascertain whether there is any substantiation for this allegation connecting the Kenites to Cain, as well as contemplating the Kenites' possible importance for the Yahwistic faith. Information in the Hebrew Bible concerning the Kenites is sparse. Traits associated with the Kenites, and their lifestyle, could be linked to descendants of Cain. The three sons of Lamech represent particular occupational groups, which are also connected to the Kenites. The nomadic Kenites seemingly roamed the regions south of Palestine. According to particular texts in the Hebrew Bible, Yahweh emanated from regions south of Palestine. It is, therefore, plausible that the Kenites were familiar with a form of Yahwism, a cult that could have been introduced by them to Moses, as suggested by the Kenite hypothesis. Their particular trade as metalworkers afforded them the opportunity to also introduce their faith in the northern regions of Palestine. This article analyses the etymology of the word "Kenite, " the ancestry of the Kenites, their lifestyle, and their religion. The research leads to the conclusion that the Kenites could be linked to Cain, and also supports the Kenite hypothesis, thereby suggesting that they introduced the faith of Yahwism to Moses, and thus indirectly to the Israelites.

https://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1010-99192011000200007

The Archaeology of Cult of Ancient Israel’s Southern Neighbors and the Midianite-Kenite Hypothesis. In J.M. Tebes & Ch. Frevel (eds.), The Desert Origins of God: Yahweh's Emergence and Early History in the Southern Levant and Northern Arabia.

The Midianite-Kenite hypothesis, the idea that the pre-Israelite roots of Yahwism can be traced back to the areas south and southeast of Palestine, has a long pedigree in biblical scholarship. Analyses supporting this view generally agree in three

www.academia.edu

 

[The Learner]

Three Assumptions About the KenitesBy Isaac Kalimi(7/38 Diskin st. Jerusalem 92473)In view of the absence of archaeological and epigraphical sourceson the Kenites, the historian must depend largely on biblical sources,specifically: Gen 15,19; Ex 2,15-21; Num 10,29-32; 24,21-22; Jud1,16; 4,11,17-22; 5,24-27; I Sam 15,6; 27,10; 30,29; I Chr 2,55 (see also4,9—10). These traditions are for the most part either fragmentary orobscure (e. g., Num 10,29-32; Jud 1,16). They were intended only äsSupplements to or background for the main account (e. g., Num ibid;Jud ibid and 4,11; I Sam 15,6). The quality and quantity of this evidencerenders the reconstruction even of the main outlines of the history ofthe Kenites difficult. Only close attention to the aforementioned sourcescan safe a study of the Kenites from a precipitous descent to baselessspeculation. Yet a number of scholars have made assumptions andengaged in speculation which clearly contradict the evidence; it is theobject of this article to test three assumptions commonly made inresearch on the Kenites./. The Kenites and Israelite Knowledge of Metallurgy

Three Assumptions About the Kenites

Article Three Assumptions About the Kenites was published on January 1, 1988 in the journal Zeitschrift für die alttestamentliche Wissenschaft (volume 100, issue 3).

www.degruyter.com

 

[The Learner]

Earlier findings, including the earliest known depictions of biblical heroines Deborah and Jael
The year prior, the team discovered another panel, which is separated into three horizontal sections. It brought to life scenes from Judges chapter 4, depicting the prophetess and judge Deborah under a palm tree, gazing at a shield-equipped Barak, and the Kenite woman Yael driving a tent stake through the temple of Canaanite general Sisera, who lies on the ground with blood gushing out of his head. These findings hold the distinction of being the earliest known depictions of biblical heroines Deborah and Jael.

Mosaics of biblical Samson uncovered in Galilee archaeological dig

Over the course of the decade-long Huqoq excavation project, the team made a series of discoveries including depictions of Noah’s Ark, the parting of the Red Sea, a Helios-zodiac cycle, and more.

www.jpost.com

The Kenites and the Kenite Territory

 

[Truthnightmare]

Kenite, member of a tribe of itinerant metalsmiths related to the Midianites and the Israelites who plied their trade while traveling in the region of the Arabah (the desert rift valley extending from the Sea of Galilee to the Gulf of Aqaba) from at least the 13th century to the 9th century BC. The Kenites’ name was derived from Cain, whose descendants they were believed to be. The Kenites are mentioned several times in the Old Testament.


The father-in-law of Moses, Jethro, was a Kenite, and as priest-leader of the tribe he led in the worship of Yahweh, whom Moses later revealed to the Hebrews as their own God whom they had forgotten. In the period of the judges (12th–11th century BC), it was a Kenite woman, Jael, who killed the general of Israel’s enemies, the Canaanites.




Settling among the Israelites, Amalekites, and Canaanites, the Kenites apparently became absorbed into the tribe of Judah. Conservative groups of Kenites retained their nomadic way of life and beliefs and practices, however, and one such group, the Rechabites (2 Kings), fought alongside the rebel and future king of Israel, Jehu (reigned c. 842–c. 815), against the Omri dynasty and the worshipers of the Canaanite god Baal.

Kenite | Bedouin Tribe, Nomadic People, Desert Dwellers

Kenite, member of a tribe of itinerant metalsmiths related to the Midianites and the Israelites who plied their trade while traveling in the region of the Arabah (the desert rift valley extending from the Sea of Galilee to the Gulf of Aqaba) from at least the 13th century to the 9th century bc. The

www.britannica.com

We can all post what other sources say, but you must be able to defend their position and you must understand the word to do such.

Judg 1:16
16 And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. (KJV)

children: Hebrew word #1121 ben (bane); from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like 1, 251, etc.]):

Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land:

Exod 18:1-3
1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;
2 Then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back,
3 And her two sons; of which the name of the one was Gershom; for he said, I have been an alien in a strange land: (KJV)
Exod 3:1
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. (KJV)

To be a priest of Midian, Moses' father in law needed to be a full blood Midianite. The Tribe of Midian descended from Abraham, not Cain (thus not a Kenite):

Gen 25:1-2
1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
(KJV)

It is just like when an African becomes a German citizen, the African does not change race, he is still African (black) but his children are German citizens and properly referred to as Germans, not Africans. By the same token, Moses' father in law lived among the Kenites, but by birth he was a Midianite, a Midianite Priest even.

 

[jeffweeder]

Good question

Well, as far as the inhabitants/earthlings were concerned, they thought it was a global flood. All people were killed except 8.

Yes. This judgment on the ancient world fell on all humans not on the Ark... Confirmed by the new testament...,
2Pet 2

5 and if He did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought [the judgment of] a flood upon the world of the ungodly;


Jesus said the same thing would befall all humans not in Christ at the time of his coming.

1. Luke 17:26
   And just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the time of [the second coming of] the Son of Man:
2. Luke 17:27
   the people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, [they were indifferent to God] until the day that Noah went into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

2pet 3
5 For they willingly forget [the fact] that the heavens existed long ago by the word of God, and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water.

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I never said “all life was killed” What I am saying
Is merely what I believe.

And to reiterate,







I would never call the Bible a lie. The Bible is the word of God… The word is God, and God is not a man that He should lie.

Well accepting a local flood theory shows you disbelieve that God is a liar!

There were no Asian people until after the Tower of Babel.

And while "eretz" can mean a particular piece of land, th ewhole heaven means the planet. You can believe what you wish, that is your privilege, but when you seek to reinterpret Scripture, I will stand up for the Word of God as written and not reinterpreted.

 

[The Learner]

We can all post what other sources say, but you must be able to defend their position and you must understand the word to do such.


Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land:


To be a priest of Midian, Moses' father in law needed to be a full blood Midianite. The Tribe of Midian descended from Abraham, not Cain (thus not a Kenite):


It is just like when an African becomes a German citizen, the African does not change race, he is still African (black) but his children are German citizens and properly referred to as Germans, not Africans. By the same token, Moses' father in law lived among the Kenites, but by birth he was a Midianite, a Midianite Priest even.

Brother, friend the texts you quote are well after Noah's flood.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Well accepting a local flood theory shows you disbelieve that God is a liar!

There were no Asian people until after the Tower of Babel.

And while "eretz" can mean a particular piece of land, th ewhole heaven means the planet. You can believe what you wish, that is your privilege, but when you seek to reinterpret Scripture, I will stand up for the Word of God as written and not reinterpreted.

I’m sure you meant to say “I believe God is a liar” No I don’t
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

No! There was an Asian race before the Tower of Babel. When Cain went to the land of Nod (ancient Mongolia) he found a wife.

Cain was also worried that he would be killed, killed by who? Adam or Eve? I think not.

And the word heaven doesn’t mean planet.
heaven: Hebrew word #8064 shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); dual of an unused singular shameh (shaw-meh'); from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): KJV-- air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

You’re not defending the word, you are defending your position.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Brother, friend the texts you quote are well after Noah's flood.

Hey there Learner.
Yes they are, I’m not sure what you’re getting at

 

[The Learner]

People often use universal language when they have limited knowledge.
"everyone agrees with me" lol

"This report investigates the identity and housing of approximately 16,000 animals on Noah's Ark." https://digitalcommons.cedarville.e...the late 18th century,species were known (77).

16,000 / 8 people = 2,000 care daily per person.
24 *60 =1,440 mintues
24 *60 - 9*60 = 900 mintues after sleeping and caring for self
2000/900 = allows each person 2.222 mintues per animal care.

How long does it take to feed and clean up after your pets? a horse? a pig?

2 mintues is not realistic.

 

[The Learner]

Hey there Learner.
Yes they are, I’m not sure what you’re getting at

links I posted are informational . forget where I was going.

 

[The Learner]

AIG says, "Noah only needed to bring around 6,744 animals onto the ark."

How Many Animals Were on Noah’s Ark?

Genesis describes the ark as a real vessel that was actually built by a real, historical person named Noah.

answersingenesis.org

6,744 / 900 = 7.5 mintues per animals
That still does not seem to be enough time to me.
I worked on a farm when I was young to earn money.