Was Paul Right About Women In Church?

[Grailhunter]

Why in the world can you not tell the difference between a fundamental assertion, and a cultural or circumstantial statement???

Complicated theology, you're not qualified Grailhunter. Read the context of the male chauvinistic text, understand the author's disposition, his innate wisdom and uncompromising fortitude. Where in the world do you get the idea that the inspired writer's impartations were temporal, subject to change, or superficial or subjective?

The facts! You just have to have the focus to pay attention and the intelligence to comprehend....lol

 

[Grailhunter]

You're flippant Grailhunter, stop the frivolous nonsense.
These were inspired and formidable men who wrote the Bible, not shallow children that only spoke on a superficial level. They spoke of angels, the beginnings of creation, the demonic realm, and principles that transcend the flesh. Where in the flippin' world do you get the idea that the precepts that they imparted to us, were subject to cultural and historical change?
You're talking foolishness Grailhunter.

Inspired men...put the ink to the paper.
Inspired men wrote in the OT that the Lord thy God said, Kill all the breaths and don't forget the babies....
Then in the NT Christ said, Turn the other cheek....
Things change by inspiration...that is correct...and praise the Lord...
But hard hearted men...Christ spoke of them and they are still around today...
Always getting off on dominating those that are weaker...
Proud of yourself?

 

[OzSpen]

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjugation.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim. 2:11-14

This Epistle contains instructions for conduct within a Church. Each of these statements is the very Word of God in principle, and is not merely in the context of the Corinthians Church. All Christians Women are to:

1.) Keep silent in church during teaching.
2.) Learn and accept all being taught by Men.
3.) Not teach Men anything.
4.) Have absolutely no authority over a Man.
5.) Use God's higher ordained preference upon Men as the sole reason for doing all of this, rather than coming up with some "Personal decision to agree and comply, Okay, Whatever you say."
6.) Agree with God's statement that, as was sinless Eve before she sinned, Women are inherently more easily to transgress.

Yes, Paul was right, especially since he was not married such that he would have been speaking from having had a grievously mouthy Wife who was contrary to this Word of God. Praise God for His clarity and authority.

I was married to a Woman who had been teaching multiple Bible Studies to mixed groups. She later passed from cancer.

That's your interpretatiom.

Your view needs a lot more exegesis of the texts in context.

Oz

 

[CadyandZoe]

Complementarianism is a theological view in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, that men and women have different but complementary roles and responsibilities in marriage, family life, and religious leadership. The word "complementary" and its cognates are currently used to denote this view.

Egalitarianism
The doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.

Of these terms Complementarianism attempts to put a positive spin on subjugation and social religious degradation. Notice the religions it apply to.

You keep proving the hardness of your heart and I keep pointing it out.

To be forthright I am not a fundamentalist---I do not believe in the static meaning of the scriptures. I believe in the Living Word that can still teach us new things...even different things. And I believe that ability is seen in the scriptures were beliefs and the prescribed moral behavior changes as the time periods progress, so does moral understanding. The Spirit and heart of Christ is the key to understanding this.

You aren't talking about the scriptures; you are talking about Rock Music from the 70's, which is poetic in form and subject to many interpretations. The scriptures, on the other hand, have an objective meaning, which the author's intended. A man who believes that the scriptures are malleable, "living and dynamic" isn't interested in being taught by the original author. He only wants to hear his own bias repeated back to himself.

 

[DNB]

The facts! You just have to have the focus to pay attention and the intelligence to comprehend....lol

How would you know?

 

[DNB]

Inspired men...put the ink to the paper.
Inspired men wrote in the OT that the Lord thy God said, Kill all the breaths and don't forget the babies....
Then in the NT Christ said, Turn the other cheek....
Things change by inspiration...that is correct...and praise the Lord...
But hard hearted men...Christ spoke of them and they are still around today...
Always getting off on dominating those that are weaker...
Proud of yourself?

THe order to commit genocide was not a Levitical mandate. Again, can you not tell the difference between an fundamental and intrinsic ordinance from God, from a circumstantial request?
You're speaking from emotions, Grailhunter, respect and abide by the wisdom of God, and not your own.

 

[101G]

this is one thing that I haven't understood about some Religious denominations, (not all), is this, "WHY ARE NOT WOMEN OEDAINED IN CHURCH AS PROPHERT", I'll get to pastors, and deacons, later. yet they, (some), are eager to ordain male, (pastors, and deacons), IN THE CHURCH, but (some), when it come to women, .... a BIG NO? so I ask WHY? because clearly God has set/Ordain in his church ....
1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
this term "SET" here is the Greek word, G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture.
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down
Compare: G2476, G2749

as we can see this word is also translated as "Appointed", (meaning, assign a job or role to someone) or "ORDAIN", (meaning, make someone a priest or minister; confer holy orders on). as used in 2 Timothy 1:11 "Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles."
1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

so an appointment one is ordained in it, and God said, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
and we know form the bible that woman are prophets, called prophetess, so I ask, "Why are not women ORDAINED in the Church as Prophets?".
I think that's a fair question.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Grailhunter]

THe order to commit genocide was not a Levitical mandate. Again, can you not tell the difference between an fundamental and intrinsic ordinance from God, from a circumstantial request?
You're speaking from emotions, Grailhunter, respect and abide by the wisdom of God, and not your own.

Oh boy...so many times I run into this.....back to school for you.
613 Mosaic Laws.....go learn them.

 

[DNB]

Oh boy...so many times I run into this.....back to school for you.
613 Mosaic Laws.....go learn them.

Oh, for crying out loud. First of all, considering that one cannot exterminate a group of people more than once, we understand that such a mandate, by definition, is temporal in that respect. In retrospect, as in today, no one ever considered the totality of the 613 Laws to be eternal decrees. Dietary, rituals, clothing, even burnt offerings and oblations, are unanimously perceived as superficial, and thus, abrogated. Secondly, the enactment by God to destroy the Canaanites was a form of punishment, again, a decree of circumstance, never construed to be a perpetual ordinance.

Woman was formed from man, and was created for him - nothing temporal about this. God's decree in the Garden of Eden, in regard to the disposition that women will have for man, was that of subservience.

Genesis 3:16-16
3:16. To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh, for crying out loud. First of all, considering that one cannot exterminate a group of people more than once, we understand that such a mandate, by definition, is temporal in that respect. In retrospect, as in today, no one ever considered the totality of the 613 Laws to be eternal decrees. Dietary, rituals, clothing, even burnt offerings and oblations, are unanimously perceived as superficial, and thus, abrogated. Secondly, the enactment by God to destroy the Canaanites was a form of punishment, again, a decree of circumstance, never construed to be a perpetual ordinance.

Woman was formed from man, and was created for him - nothing temporal about this. God's decree in the Garden of Eden, in regard to the disposition that women will have for man, was that of subservience.

Genesis 3:16-16
3:16. To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

First of you are wrong about just one time...and it is actually a law.
So not only do you need to go learn the 613 Mosaic Laws you need to start from scratch and read the Old Testament again...and this time pay attention!

 

[DNB]

First of you are wrong about just one time...and it is actually a law.
So not only do you need to go learn the 613 Mosaic Laws you need to start from scratch and read the Old Testament again...and this time pay attention!

You have to be joking? How can you call something an immovable law, when God demands the death of particular tribes, and names each one of them - how can this be repeated? Again, God used the Israelites to exact punishment upon the pagan and reprobate societies. This is irrefutably a one time decree, for after Joshua gained most of the territories, the ordinance did not extend past the peoples that, again, were specifically mentioned by name. In other words, no other nations were decimated, neither by mandate, nether by circumstance, after the Israelites were brought into the Promised Land.

You're talking nonsense GH, you're exposing a dullness in your understanding, which is why you can't comprehend the passages in regard to women and their place in the Church.

 

[Grailhunter]

You have to be joking? How can you call something an immovable law, when God demands the death of particular tribes, and names each one of them - how can this be repeated? Again, God used the Israelites to exact punishment upon the pagan and reprobate societies. This is irrefutably a one time decree, for after Joshua gained most of the territories, the ordinance did not extend past the peoples that, again, were specifically mentioned by name. In other words, no other nations were decimated, neither by mandate, nether by circumstance, after the Israelites were brought into the Promised Land.

You're talking nonsense GH, you're exposing a dullness in your understanding, which is why you can't comprehend the passages in regard to women and their place in the Church.

Look you are wasting my time!
You can look up the 613 Mosaic Laws...simple as that. And you need to, so that you at least can pretend to know what you are talking about. Just because you have a dictionary does not make you a theologian. And until you can prove you know something about the Old Testament I will not talk to you about this further.

 

[DNB]

Look you are wasting my time!
You can look up the 613 Mosaic Laws...simple as that. And you need to, so that you at least can pretend to know what you are talking about. Just because you have a dictionary does not make you a theologian. And until you can prove you know something about the Old Testament I will not talk to you about this further.

Anyhow, where were we, ...oh yes, women's place in the Church.
A woman is a woman from creation, as a man is a man, as a child is a child, as a donkey is a donkey. Has anything changed in their constitution since their inception into world, up until now, obviously not.
Parents still rule the household, kings and governors their countries, police their societies, teachers their students, etc... Even in the animal kingdom, the male dominates. Nature and propensity has determined the functionalities of all the earth's creatures.

Men and women have clearly distinct anatomies, so that just their physicality alone dictates limitations in their capabilities, one from the other. Also, the male has more testosterone than the female, while the latter has more estrogen than the former. This undeniably affects the character and mental aptitude of one, as opposed to the other. But, you feel that the OT dispensation, with it's overtly patriarchal and chauvinistic hierarchy, was structured as such for just some random and antiquated principle? And, on the converse, that it has absolutely nothing to do with an intrinsic and fundamental biological fact, about either gender?

 

[marksman]

@marksman that Vicar is definitely Spirit-filled and she is on fire for Jesus.

I have even heard that it is mainly women who are in Christian leadership in the underground Churches of Iran....

Sorry but I don't use one example or personal anecdotes. I am a teacher so my insiration is always what the scripture says.

 

[marksman]

All due respect "they" has a pin point on a particular group or person. I don't see that written, only in Christ is what can be seen as written.

Obviously you don't recognise a joke when you see one.

 

[marksman]

***dodging the question speaks volumes to all who are reading this as well....

But let's get some scriptures.
Does God's Word lose power when spoken from a woman?
The Bible Says:
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
— Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
Isaiah 55 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁰ For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
¹¹ So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
— 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
For emphasis..
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
— Romans 10:17 (KJV)

The scriptures I have chosen is about the power of God's Word....

My question
Does His Word lose power when spoken through a women instead of a man?
Your answer?

God does not anoint contrary to his word.

 

[marksman]

The scripture about neither male or female is about being under the law or having faith..
Galatians 3 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
² This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
…
⁵ He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
…
²⁴ Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
²⁵ But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
²⁶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
²⁷ For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
²⁹ And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As I said, the verse/s is about salvation, not women in leadership.

 

[Heart2Soul]

As I said, the verse/s is about salvation, not women in leadership.

Yep I think you have determined this is what it is about whether it is or not.
I agree to disagree with your interpretation.
God bless

 

[marksman]

Why do you resort to cursing?

“Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.” — Ephesians 5:4 (KJV)

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” — Ephesians 4:29 (KJV)

Colossians 3:8-10 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ⁸ But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. ⁹ Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; ¹⁰ And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Matthew 15:10-11 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹⁰ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: ¹¹ Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

“But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.” — 2 Timothy 2:16 (KJV)

James 3:10-13 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹⁰ Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. ¹¹ Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? ¹² Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. ¹³ Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Hello God, having a busy day putting people right?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hello God, having a busy day putting people right?

This is arrogance