Was there a Pre-Adamite World?

[Stranger]

Just one example will suffice, but there was a lot of Pre-Adamite baloney being published in the 19th and 20th centuries, a lot of it being racist.

In an unusual blend of contemporary evolutionary thinking and pre-Adamism, the Vanderbilt University theistic evolutionist and geologist Alexander Winchell argued in his 1878 tract, Adamites and Preadamites, for the pre-Adamic origins of the human race, on the basis that the Negroes were too racially inferior to have developed from the Biblical Adam. Winchell also believed that the laws of evolution operated according to the will of God.

Actually Wikipedia has a whole list of people who were promoting this nonsense. And R. A. Torrey and Gleason Archer are also cited as holding to the non-racist Gap Theory of Creation.

Pre-Adamite theories have also been held by a number of mainstream Christians such as the Congregational evangelist R. A. Torrey (1856–1928), who believed in the Gap Theory and that pre-Adamites had survived into the present day.

Gleason Archer was a believer in pre-Adamism. He wrote in his 1985 book, A Survey of Old Testament Introduction, "To revert to the problem of the Pithecanthropus, the Swanscombe man, the Neanderthal and all the rest (possibly even the Cro-magnon man, who is apparently to be classed as Homo sapiens, but whose remains seem to date back at least to 20,000 B.C.) it seems best to regard these races as all prior to Adam’s time, and not involved in the Adamic covenant. We must leave the question open, in view of the cultural remains, whether these pre-Adamic creatures had souls (or, to use the trichotomic terminology, spirits)."

Gleason went on to assert that only Adam and his descendants were infused with the breath of God and a spiritual nature corresponding to God himself, and he said that all mankind subsequent to Adam’s time must have been literally descended from him. However, he retains the concept of pre-Adamic races (such as the Cro-Magnon man), and says: "They may have been exterminated by God for unknown reasons prior to the creation of the original parent of the present human race".

Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia

Please. Surely you're not going to use Wikipedia for a credible reference?

You have moved from a pre-adamite earth to racism. If there was a pre-adamite earth and beings existing, how can they know of their race if they were not of Adam? There is nothing to indicate that the pre-adamite earth or beings that populated it were of any certain race. That they existed at all is the question.

So no, one example does not suffice. How does the pre-adamite theory by pass Adam?

Stranger.

 

[CoreIssue]

And you would know! How about telling us about your journey to the centre of the earth or Atlantis?

How about you explaining how the apostles went to Jerusalem for Easter?

 

[farouk]

How about you explaining how the apostles went to Jerusalem for Easter?

Were they "observing" Easter as Christians? or were they taking Gospel opportunities when they knew many Jews from around the world would be there?

 

[Helen]

I'm sharing it as a possibility for merging science and theology. Thanks for reading it.

I thought it was very interesting. Thanks... I wouldn't mind more..though I am sure "some" will shoot it down, as usual!

 

[CoreIssue]

Were they "observing" Easter as Christians? or were they taking Gospel opportunities when they knew many Jews from around the world would be there?

Acts 12:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 After arresting him, he put him in prison, handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each. Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.

Easter did not appear in any manuscripts until the so-called received text written in the 1500s under Catholic influence.

There was no Catholic Church and there was no Easter at that time. Catholics invented it much later, copied from the pagan Ishtar worship Festival.

 

[farouk]

Acts 12:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 After arresting him, he put him in prison, handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each. Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.

Easter did not appear in any manuscripts until the so-called received text written in the 1500s under Catholic influence.

There was no Catholic Church and there was no Easter at that time. Catholics invented it much later, copied from the pagan Ishtar worship Festival.

Sounds about right.

Really what is now called Easter emerged from the fulfillment of the feast of firstfruits, when the Lord Jesus rose from the dead.

 

[Dave L]

I thought it was very interesting. Thanks... I wouldn't mind more..though I am sure "some" will shoot it down, as usual!

Thanks for the reply and for your interest in this.

If you point in any direction, God is there. And if you travel in any direction to the point where space for matter to fit into no longer exists, God is there. And if you punch through and keep going forever, God continues without beginning or end. This is called God's immensity in historic theology.

God created time, space and matter within his eternal spiritual presence. Paul says; “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900) So he is everywhere present through all and beyond all creation. The Psalmist says, “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.” (Psalm 139:7–8) (KJV 1900)

SO if you strip away time, space, and matter, you have the spiritual dimension also called the Spirit of God. And therein is his eternal decree. Of all that ever was, is, or ever will be, including the New Heavens and earth. All made visible by time, space, and matter.

Based on this, the earth, whatever age scripture depicts it as being, can be trillions of light years older, having been revealed in 6 days, 6 thousand years ago, through the creation of time, space and matter.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So what on tradition?

Mark 7:3-9 New International Version (NIV)
3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.a]">[a])

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’b]">[b]

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observec]">[c] your own traditions!

The point being tradition doesn't determine what truth is, the Bible does.

"So then, brothers, stand firm, and hold tightly to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

I could show you a lot of support from both Jewish and Christian traditions on the six day creation narrative. I think if you believe firmly in an entirely different age and different races on earth before the creation of Adam you are "holding tightly" to a fabrication, LoL. But believe as you wish. I just don't see any reason for believing anything other than what the traditions teach on this matter.

 

[101G]

addressing the OP title, "Was there a Pre-Adamite World?" ... NO.

PICJAG.

 

[Helen]

Thanks for the reply and for your interest in this.

If you point in any direction, God is there. And if you travel in any direction to the point where space for matter to fit into no longer exists, God is there. And if you punch through and keep going forever, God continues without beginning or end. This is called God's immensity in historic theology.

God created time, space and matter within his eternal spiritual presence. Paul says; “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900) So he is everywhere present through all and beyond all creation. The Psalmist says, “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.” (Psalm 139:7–8) (KJV 1900)

SO if you strip away time, space, and matter, you have the spiritual dimension also called the Spirit of God. And therein is his eternal decree. Of all that ever was, is, or ever will be, including the New Heavens and earth. All made visible by time, space, and matter.

Based on this, the earth, whatever age scripture depicts it as being, can be trillions of light years older, having been revealed in 6 days, 6 thousand years ago, through the creation of time, space and matter.

EXCELLBENT , that is the most uplifting post that I have read on this Site for ages.
Thank you for sharing it!

 

[bbyrd009]

Just one example will suffice

many witnesses establish a truth, even if I agree there isn't much point to this guessing game.
Beyond maybe a good opp for determinists to once again demonstrate their ignorance or something

 

[CoreIssue]

"So then, brothers, stand firm, and hold tightly to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

I could show you a lot of support from both Jewish and Christian traditions on the six day creation narrative. I think if you believe firmly in an entirely different age and different races on earth before the creation of Adam you are "holding tightly" to a fabrication, LoL. But believe as you wish. I just don't see any reason for believing anything other than what the traditions teach on this matter.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

We, not them.

Another KJV problem.

 

[farouk]

2 Thessalonians 2:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

We, not them.

Another KJV problem.

There can be good, Biblical traditions and bad, unScriptural ones.

 

[Triumph1300]

When they built the big Bennett Dam in Northern British Columbia they found human foot prints right next to dynasaur prints.

 

[CoreIssue]

When they built the big Bennett Dam in Northern British Columbia they found human foot prints right next to dynasaur prints.

Years ago such findings were all over the news, young earthers loved it and posted it everywhere. That is until disproven.

Bennett Dam in Northern British Columbia
Human and dinosaur fossil footprints? - creation.com

Paluxy Dinosaur/"Man Track" controversy

FOSSILS OF 'MAN TRACKS' SHOWN TO BE DINOSAURIAN

 

[farouk]

Years ago such findings were all over the news, young earthers loved it and posted it everywhere. That is until disproven.

Bennett Dam in Northern British Columbia
Human and dinosaur fossil footprints? - creation.com

Paluxy Dinosaur/"Man Track" controversy

FOSSILS OF 'MAN TRACKS' SHOWN TO BE DINOSAURIAN

How do you mean?

 

[Enoch111]

many witnesses establish a truth, even if I agree there isn't much point to this guessing game.

Why do you come up with nonsensical statements? What guessing game, and what about "many witnesses"? The Ten Commandments should suffice, but there is more.

Do you know that almost all the Early Church Fathers held to a plain,literal understanding of the creation account? Origen and Augustine were exceptions because they chose to make Scripture allegorical.

Most of the Church Fathers interpreted Genesis 1 in a plain and straightforward way, as actual history. The six days were 24-hour days. Ephraim (Ephrem) the Syrian (306–373) and Basil of Caesarea (329–379) argued for the literal sense of Scripture against the distortions of allegory. Basil said twenty-four hours fill up the space of one day. Even Ambrose of Milan (330–397), mentor of Augustine, believed each day consisted of twenty-four hours, including both day and night. In addition to this, the Fathers believed that the earth was less than 6,000 years old.
The Early Church on Creation

Do you know that ALL the Reformers had the same understanding?
The Reformation and the Interpretation of Genesis
When God brought the Reformation to the church in the 16th century, one great effect was the return to the literal sense of the Bible. For centuries the church had muddied the waters of biblical interpretation by giving each text four meanings, as if the Bible consisted entirely of spiritual parables. William Tyndale (c. AD 1494–1536) asserted, “The Scripture hath but one sense, which is the literal sense.” He did not deny that the Bible uses parables and figures of speech, just as we speak and write today. But we discover the meaning of Scripture by reading it carefully in context.We do not turn history into allegory.

As a result of this approach to the Bible, the Reformers embraced a literal view of Genesis. Martin Luther (AD 1483–1546) wrote, “We know from Moses that the world was not in existence before 6,000 years ago.” He relied on biblical records to compute the age of the earth, estimating that in 1540 the world was 5,500 years old. He acknowledged that some people followed Aristotle’s view that the world had always existed, or Augustine’s view that Genesis 1 was an allegory. But Luther believed that Moses wrote Genesis in a plain sense...Though God worked through many Reformers alongside and after Luther, none is so well known as John Calvin (AD 1509–1564). Like Luther, he read Genesis as “the history of creation.” He believed that “the duration of the world . . . has not yet attained six thousand years.” He also rejected Augustine’s belief that creation was completed in a moment, writing, “Moses relates that God’s work was completed not in a moment but in six days.”...Other major Reformers agreed with Calvin about the six days of creation, and the first three days in particular. Though examples could be multiplied, I will mention only four...
What Did the Reformers Believe about the Age of the Earth?

So how many Christian witnesses do we now have?

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you come up with nonsensical statements? What guessing game, and what about "many witnesses"?

2 Corinthians 13:1 1This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Matthew 18:16 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

Deuteronomy 19:15 15One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

1 Corinthians 15:15 More than that, we are then found to be false ...

... false witnesses of God; because we gave witness of God ... And indeed we are found false
witnesses of God; because ... Christ: whom he raised not, if in truth the dead ...
//biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-15.htm - 20k


1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:

... There are three witnesses: ... And it is the Spirit that beareth
witness, because the Spirit is the truth. ...
//biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm - 17k


John 3:11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we ...

... of that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. ... In most solemn truth I tell
you that we speak what we know ... of that of which we were eye-witnesses, and yet ...
//biblehub.com/john/3-11.htm - 18k


John 15:27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me ...

... You will declare the truth, too, because you have been ... and ye also bear witness,
because ye have been with me ... And you also are witnesses, because you have been …

 

[CoreIssue]

The Bible is literal, yet you still defend the KJV with its proven errors due to Catholicism.

The claim of a 6,000 year old earth is absurd. It assumed verse 1 is part of day 1 when it is not stated. This is Day 1:
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

There were no mornings and evenings without the sun, days and nights.

This belief makes no room for dinosaurs, in example. It says none were taken on the Ark.

It forced inventions to explain away Bible verses, such as in Isaiah.

Commentaries by CoreIssue

This is not a salvation issue.

I reject evolution in all its forms.

 

[CoreIssue]

How do you mean?

The links explain.