That is incorrect. Physical birth is a given, therefore meaningless in this context. However "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, and in this context the Gospel is the "seed" of the New Birth (see 1 Pet 1:23-25). And the Spirit is the divine Agent who brings about the supernatural New Birth -- born of the Spirit. It requires the preaching of the Gospel as well as the regeneration of the Holy Spirit to effect the New Birth.
Water Baptism:
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As there will never be a consensus of opinion regarding this matter we all must trust to the understanding given to us by the Holy Spirit. That our opinions seem to differ greatly, seeing as we are supposed to have the One Spirit, is hard to understand but we all individually must do as we feel led by the Holy Spirit.
At one time I was totally against water baptism until God changed my mind, and because it was God himself who led me to the view I now hold I will not change it. But then I suppose we all feel the same way.
At one time I was totally against water baptism until God changed my mind, and because it was God himself who led me to the view I now hold I will not change it. But then I suppose we all feel the same way.
twisted.
The water is symbolic of the work done in you wherein you die, are buried, and are raised with Christ.
For some this is unto the remission of sins.
For others, it is the answer of a good conscience towards the Lord.
Either way, it is unto salvation.
H20 baptism doesn't wash away the filth of the flesh (1 Peter 3:21); it washes away sins (Acts 22:16).
Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It seems to be saying here that being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is unto the remission of sins; and of course it will not take place apart from repentance: but baptism in the name of Jesus is an integral part of the equation.
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Since the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who have been baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, it follows that those who have been given the Holy Ghost through such a promise would be the ones who would be correct on this issue. Those who have not received the promise through fulfilling the condition found in Acts 2:38 would be an untrustworthy source of information, since they have not done what it takes to receive the Holy Ghost.
It is your false belief which is twisted. If water baptism was necessary for salvation, then surely Paul would have said that the Lord sent him to BOTH preach the Gospel and to baptize. But he does not say that.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:17,18)
And that is why when the Philippian jailer asked him what he must do to be saved, Paul simply said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30,31)
Baptise means "to dip". It does not mean "to dip in water". The dipping can be in anything. Acts 2:38 says to dip in the name of Jesus Christ, not in water.
You don't even know what my belief is. I do not believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation; but I do believe that it can be a point of contact for faith; and that a man can receive absolute assurance of salvation because of the absolute promise of the Holy Ghost given in Acts 2:38 as a conditional promise. Also, water baptism has the power to save (1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 2:38-39); while a man can also receive the Holy Spirit through other means (Luke 11:9-13)
Water Baptism:
Let's develop a doctrine around being dipped in chocolate sauce then.
To you it is a given but why did Nicodemus bring it up?
Looks like you disagree.
The Bible teaches that the prototype for baptism (John's) was basically in water and not in anything else.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
“For Christ also *suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine long-suffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an *antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” (1 Pet 3:18-21)
“Why are the Ark and the saving of eight souls by water likened to baptism?
Verse 21 is a comparison of John’s baptism with Jesus’ baptism. (John’s baptism was unto repentance, and the water symbolized a washing or cleansing.) Peter is going out of his way to say: “Do not misunderstand, I am talking not talking about John’s baptism but about the baptism into Christ’s death.”
God deals with us according to the will, not according to the external deeds of the flesh. When we are baptized into Jesus’ death, we are covered with a robe of righteousness, and thus we can be void of offense from the standpoint of conscience.
Our heart condition is what counts, for if our salvation depended on the deeds of the flesh without this covering, we would all be condemned. Because of the imputed robe of righteousness, we can be free of unnecessary guilt.
This verse proves that all—Jew and Gentile—need Jesus’ baptism in order to become Christians. Regarding salvation, a baptism into Jesus’ death is also a baptism into his resurrection, for we are raised in “newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
How was the resurrection prefigured in this illustration of the Ark?
Those in the Ark were saved. The Ark was a means of safety that deposited eight souls on Mount Ararat, on the shore of safety. The number 8 signifies a new or fresh start, regeneration. It presupposes a previous completion.
7 = completion (a complete unit)
+1 or a total of 8 = a new day or a new start.
When the eight souls were deposited on Mount Ararat, a new day or life began. God told Noah to “be fruitful, and multiply,” just as He had instructed Adam (Gen. 8:17). Although not perfect like Adam, Noah was reckoned perfect and was reassured by the bow of promise. Hence there was a fresh start after the Flood.
*The word "Antitype" is not used in the English Bible. This Greek word [anrirupon (Strong's # SG4991)] is translated "figure" in 1 Pet. 3:21 and in Heb 9:24. (Nevertheless we would be correct in using the word antitype in these two places).
*The word "suffered" in Verse 18 is incorrect, it should be "died". It was not our Lord's sufferings that paid the price of our sins, it was his death.
“Why are the Ark and the saving of eight souls by water likened to baptism?
Verse 21 is a comparison of John’s baptism with Jesus’ baptism. (John’s baptism was unto repentance, and the water symbolized a washing or cleansing.) Peter is going out of his way to say: “Do not misunderstand, I am talking not talking about John’s baptism but about the baptism into Christ’s death.”
God deals with us according to the will, not according to the external deeds of the flesh. When we are baptized into Jesus’ death, we are covered with a robe of righteousness, and thus we can be void of offense from the standpoint of conscience.
Our heart condition is what counts, for if our salvation depended on the deeds of the flesh without this covering, we would all be condemned. Because of the imputed robe of righteousness, we can be free of unnecessary guilt.
This verse proves that all—Jew and Gentile—need Jesus’ baptism in order to become Christians. Regarding salvation, a baptism into Jesus’ death is also a baptism into his resurrection, for we are raised in “newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
How was the resurrection prefigured in this illustration of the Ark?
Those in the Ark were saved. The Ark was a means of safety that deposited eight souls on Mount Ararat, on the shore of safety. The number 8 signifies a new or fresh start, regeneration. It presupposes a previous completion.
7 = completion (a complete unit)
+1 or a total of 8 = a new day or a new start.
When the eight souls were deposited on Mount Ararat, a new day or life began. God told Noah to “be fruitful, and multiply,” just as He had instructed Adam (Gen. 8:17). Although not perfect like Adam, Noah was reckoned perfect and was reassured by the bow of promise. Hence there was a fresh start after the Flood.
*The word "Antitype" is not used in the English Bible. This Greek word [anrirupon (Strong's # SG4991)] is translated "figure" in 1 Pet. 3:21 and in Heb 9:24. (Nevertheless we would be correct in using the word antitype in these two places).
*The word "suffered" in Verse 18 is incorrect, it should be "died". It was not our Lord's sufferings that paid the price of our sins, it was his death.
Nicodemus was stumbling along without spiritual insight. The minute he heard the word "born" he thought of the physical birth. And then he had the absurd notion that the New Birth could also possibly involve the mother's womb.
On the other hand, Christ immediately began to speak about spiritual things and spiritual realities. And when He made a reference to "water" Nicodemus -- being well-verse in the Scriptures -- would have understood that it could not possibly be H2O according to this Scripture from Ezekiel:
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (Ezek 36:25)
Nicodemus would have know that ordinary water cannot possibly cleanse the soul from its filthiness and idolatry. And we know from other Scriptures that this "water" is the water of the Word of God (along with the cleansing by the blood of Christ): That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the Church] with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26) Water is also a metaphor for the Holy Spirit, so possibly both are referenced here.
This is further clarified in Hebrew 4:12,13: For the Word of God is quick [alive], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him [God the Holy Spirit]with whom we have to do.
Once again the Word and the Spirit are combined together to show us that there is no ordinary water involved in spiritual things.
Mal'ak
Member
1 Peter 3:18-22 is not talking about baptism or being saved through a symbolic baptism, "20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.", as you can see it is giving you a date in history "who disobeyed long ago...in the days of Noah". Just because there are the words "water" and "saved", does not mean you can say "oh this is baptism" as you need to stay in context. These verses are talking about after Jesus died and rose again, the first place Jesus went was to Hell to "19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison".
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Now in Luke 16 before Jesus died for our sins, the doctrine of the Jews was that no one went to Heaven when they died. If you were a good person like David, you would go to "Abraham's bosom", which was just a nice part of Hell. While if you were bad, you had the full Hell experience. The reason was simple, like David said, "thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption". Animal sacrifice showed your desire to repent, but it was never enough to wash away your sins and allow you to enter Heaven. You needed Jesus to die on the cross to cleanse your soul, so all the good people in the world before Jesus died on the cross still all went to Hell when they died. Now all this was stated to go back to 1 Peter 3, after Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead for the three days he went to Hell and preached of his salvation to all the souls there, as Acts 2 says to fulfill David's prophesy "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him....He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell". The "days of Noah" spoke about in 1 Peter 3 again was a symbolic time frame, speaking about everyone that lived before Jesus' death.
….off topic, but it is very important to understand 1 Peter 3, to baptism.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Philip is our example of how to be an Evangelist, as we can see he first "preached unto him Jesus". Then when someone has their eyes open by the Father they will ask what "hinder me to be baptized?" Philip replies "if thou believest with all thine heart", the none believer replies "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"...then you are "baptized". Are you probably not going to Hell if you never got Baptized, but as others have said in the thread it is an act of obedience. The false and lazy doctrine of "I believe, now I'm going to sit and watch tv until I die" is a lie, you need to show the Father through spiritual works of obedience that you wish to be righteous and want to do his will. That is for everything like reading the Bible, to baptism, to helping at your church, to preaching.
Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It should be clear from this verse that being baptized (in water) will bring about the washing away of sins, a cleansing of the heart unto purity.
This is not done through removing the filth of the flesh but through identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ: in which a man dies to the old man and becomes alive to the new (Romans 6). He is given a new heart and a new spirit so that the Lord will cause him to walk in His statutes and judgments, Ezekiel 36:25-27.
It should be clear from this verse that being baptized (in water) will bring about the washing away of sins, a cleansing of the heart unto purity.
This is not done through removing the filth of the flesh but through identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ: in which a man dies to the old man and becomes alive to the new (Romans 6). He is given a new heart and a new spirit so that the Lord will cause him to walk in His statutes and judgments, Ezekiel 36:25-27.
My bible teaches otherwise.
Acts 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Born of the Spirit is not the point. How is water baptism performed by a man be equal to God's work of cleaning with water?
And immediately where it says water it is water baptism, right? The very next verse says flesh and the Spirit. I believe what I wrote in the OP. Sorry we disagree.
Do I assume right here, that all those arguing against believers' baptism have never been through it themselves, or perhaps only as infants?
So all we have to do to get our sins washed away is to be water baptized, right? We don't need to place our faith in what Jesus did on the cross where HE, HE, HE,. washed away the sins of the whole world when he shed His righteous blood on a cross to pay for them.
Sorry but I believe what Jesus did on the cross has washed away my sins of the flesh.
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