We are judged by works, not by faith

[Ghada]

Well as you seem completely incapable or unwilling to answer a simple question with a simple yes or no, This is the end here. Have the last word if you wish.

I can take the correction. No. No man that is saved by faith alone, ever loses his salvation, until the grave. Because no man is ever saved by the God of the Bible through faith alone.

I was taking more words in order to hopefully help you see Bible teaching that you are blind to at this time. But, that's ok to ignore it. Many times I do it as much for myself as anyone for my own benefit unto righteousness. As the saying goes, teacher teach yourself.

But be warned, it you preach salvation by any kind of works plus faith, you are guilty of preaching another gospel as is written in the Scriptures, aka the Inspired Word of Almighty God.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

You're warning is to Peter in the Bible. I haven't tried to warn anyone away from their blind faith alone to save them by. I just show how it's not the Bible everlasting gospel and eternal salvation of Jesus Christ.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[Nancy]

Thank you very much for the compliment. But if the points are good, then why isn't the conclusion? Or maybe I'm not clear enough about the conclusion? I don't say the Bible teaches a 'works' based salvation and justification. The Bible does not teach being justified by works only, nor by all works, but only by specific works of God through us by Jesus Christ.

James 2 cannot be speaking of any works without faith, since the context is of faith. Nor can he be speaking of any sinful works of the flesh, since the context is of doing good in the family of God, as well as doing faithful service for God, as with Abraham and Rahab.

In the Bible, all works are not the same, because God does not judge all works the same. He judges all works, but only His works of righteousness by the faith of His Son are justified by the Father.

All men understand the difference between good and evil works, however not all men discern the difference between natural good deeds of any man, and Christ's good deeds only through the faithful members of His body on earth. Natural man does have conscientious and good and helpful works to our fellow man and neighbors, but they are not judged by God as being holy and righteous and pleasing to Himself.

Why not? Because God does not see in them the Spirit of His Son doing them. When God judges works worthy of Himself, it is only because He judges Jesus Christ to be the Author and Finisher of those works by His faith.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul is saying here that in Christ, the works he now does are not his own as before Christ, but are now Jesus' works done through him.

Even in works, it is still Jesus that the Father is honoring to justify us by. When we please the Father as the Son by pure works of His goodness and righteousness, He judges that it is His Son doing the works through His own body, even as He did in the days of His flesh.

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

The members of the body are justified by the faithful works done, only because it is the Son that is honored and judged as making them worthy of the Father through us. We are judged worthy to walk with God, only because of Jesus Christ within us. He is One doing them through members of His body.

And so, with this Bible judgement in mind pertaining to works, we now see that James 2 only speaks of Jesus' works through us, that justify us. To say no man is justified by any works at all, is in fact saying none of man's works are being done by Jesus Christ. It judges the works of Jesus' members are the same as the works done by natural man. And so they teach no works have any part in being saved and justified by Christ.

They are declaring the opposite of Paul, that their works are still being done by themselves alone, and not done by Christ Jesus. Even as they separate their own faith from their works, they also separate their own works from God.

That is why there are Christians teaching all their works are still judged by God as filthy rags, just like the natural good deeds of any man, that has not Christ. They are teaching that all good deeds of all men on earth are the same, and so judged the same by God: either filthy rags of our own righteousness, or sinful works of the flesh. And so, they teach for themselves the Psalm that condemns all men with no faith. The judge themselves to be the same as the unrighteous that never do good by Jesus Christ doing the works through them.

We see also that Paul is speaking only of those natural works of our own without Christ, that do not save nor justify any man with the Father.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3 alongside Eph 2 and Rom 4, clarifies that Paul is only speaking of our own works done alone without Christ. James never speaks of 'our' works, but only of the works justified by God through Jesus Christ. Those who say Paul is sepak of any and all works, are condemning themselves the same as the natural man that has not the faith of Christ, nor discerns the spiritual difference between natural good works of man, and the Spirit's good works through His faithful believers.

It is impossible for Paul in Romans 4 to be speaking of Abraham's work of faith by offering up Isaac. In James 2 God justified Abraham by his work, because God judged that work as being done by Himself, through the righteous and pure faith of God in him. Abraham was not justified by his naturally good works of providing for his own household, but only for the service He did to God in obeying him contrary to all natural good sense.

We see by revelation of Heb 11, that Abraham only did that service, because of his faith in God. While journeying and climbing the mount, and raising the knife to slay his promised son, Abraham believed in his own heart that God would raise Isaac from the dead, in order to fulfill His promise of a chosen seed.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

It was God speaking the words of faith into Abraham's heart at that time, and Abraham believed Him. And so in James 2, we see it was not until he had offered up Isaac, that God justified Abraham and called him His Friend. And since Rahab is justified by the same work, then we can say she too believed the God of Israel would spare her from the destruction of the city.

The words of the Spirit spoken to their hearts were recieved and believed as being God's own will.

The Bible shows that only believing God's words to be true, does not justify a man with God. Only when we believe to do His word and will, are we justified with God, because it is not us alone doing the work, but is God Himself doing His will through us on earth.

God already knows His word is true. God is not pleased by any faith that only agrees with Him, but does not do the work that brings His words to pass in this life.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

The gospel of faith without works is only the imperfect gospel of imperfect faith, where the believers are still judged as the natural man and believers of other religions, because their works are still same as before. They are all their own according to their own natural good will. They just endeavor to sin less along the way. But then, plenty of natural men and women do the same, as well as the faithful in other religions of man.




You can see the above Bible teaching about natural good works of man.

The Bible never teaches anything of God's work in man being natural. Rom 7 & 1 Cor 2 teach all things of God, including His law and works are all spiritual in nature. Romans 11 teaches God's holy things and holy fruits are only produced from spiritually holy roots.

The Christian teaching of 'natural outflow' of good works is the Christian theological version of having natural good works, that are as filthy rags to God. They are done naturally by man's own will, and not done by the Spirit and love of God in Jesus Christ.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

If Jesus is not doing the works in and through us, then nothing man does naturally is any good nor justified with the Father.

I do understand that true works of faith are the works James is speaking of, other words if done in the "flesh", and not the Spirit of God working through us, they are as filthy rags".

"If Jesus is not doing the works in and through us, then nothing man does naturally is any good nor justified with the Father."

Yes, I do understand this, when we say something "comes naturally" to us, it is like saying something is common and well known. Not as in the "natural flesh". So sorry, lost in translation, lol.

 

[Gottservant]

The Bible teaches us that our works judge us, not our faith. We aren't judged by what we believe, but by what we do.
[...]

Faith is not the end goal. Good works are the goal of faith, because the reward of inheritance is by good works, not by faith alone.

Faith is not the end goal, but it shapes the end goal.

I think what the Bible says is that we will be known by our fruit. The point is to move away from judgment, not towards it.

If in the end, we have made way for greater works, our works will be judged more effective and fit for the purpose for which we have been given them - its just that that does not change that we are known by our fruit.

I find this topic interesting, because the point (the idea, as opposed to knowing or judging) is that we find inspiration for our walk with God. The Holy Spirit does not just wait to tell us what to do next, He encourages us to think for ourselves and be daring - this inspires great works for God, not merely the first ones that come to mind. It will be at some future point, that we realise which works got the most praise from God and which ones were most well received by the Body of Christ - I just think we need to involve the Holy Spirit more, before we reach that point, so that our inspiration grows (and does not become dormant).

What are your thoughts about this?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I can take the correction. No. No man that is saved by faith alone, ever loses his salvation, until the grave. Because no man is ever saved by the God of the Bible through faith alone.

I was taking more words in order to hopefully help you see Bible teaching that you are blind to at this time. But, that's ok to ignore it. Many times I do it as much for myself as anyone for my own benefit unto righteousness. As the saying goes, teacher teach yourself.


And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

You're warning is to Peter in the Bible. I haven't tried to warn anyone away from their blind faith alone to save them by. I just show how it's not the Bible everlasting gospel and eternal salvation of Jesus Christ.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Well you are preaching another gospel. Not Peter, but your complete misunderstanding of what Peter wrote, just like your reinterpreting the passages in Hebrews.

YOu keep adding words and moving the goalpost- I do not think even you know what you are talking about. Never mind those you are trying to write to. You are a trumpet blowing an unitelligible sound

 

[Ghada]

Judgment involves rewards. Not salvation when it comes to the judgment of Jesus.

The judgement of the Bible is not of faith nor beliefs nor salvation. The judgement is of our works. Our works justify us as worthy of life or death.

Then died for us so that He could be our payment for sin.

In the Bible, our 'cost' for Him paying the price of death, is to take up our own cross and be crucified to sinning with Him. (2 Sam 24:24)(Luke 14:28)(Matthew 10:38)

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Then they are not saved at least not yet saved. If we are saved then we have fellowship with Him who lives in us.

Not without walking in the light. No one has fellowship with Jesus by faith alone, without walking with Him.

A just man falls seven times a day and gets back up. Though we fall we are not utterly cast down.

Absolutely true. The problem is while fallen, we are not walking with Jesus in the light, nor have reconciliation with God.

Not being utterly cast down means we can still come to the Advocate of the world like all fallen sinners. We are not utterly forbidden from coming to the Advocate,

His work saved us when we accept it.

The Bible says the devils also accept the truth of the Bible.

It's not up to us to accept God, but God to accept us.

God is not looking for our acceptance of His truth, but we must seek His acceptance by doing His truth.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

True. The Bible teaches that deeds without the faith of Jesus do not save nor justify any man. Doing the law outwardly makes for a good life of works, but does not have the reward of the resurrection unto life.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Ghada]

We are rewarded for works not saved by them.

True. In the Bible, no man is rewarded with salvation by any past works done without Christ.

We are rewarded with resurrection unto life by works of Christ serving God.

The wages of sin is death, and the wages of righteousness is resurrection unto life.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

People who are saved and right with Him also have some works.

In the Bible, whether there be few or many works, they are all works of His righteousness with a pure heart of His faith.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not for some good mixed with some bad works.

The imperfect Christian gospel of being justified without works, only exhorts to sin less, but never believes from the heart in going and sinning no more.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[Ghada]

We work because He made us just, not to attain justification or salvation.

In the Bible only those doing His righteousness are made just and righteous with Him.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Being made just and righteous without and apart from doing His word, is the Christian religion of being justified by faith alone. It's not the pure religion of the Bible.

Some obey better than others.

Some obey as we ought in all things. Others don't. There is no better or worse obedience to God. Our works are either justified with a whole pure heart, or condemned with double heartedness.

This IS the work of God, that ye believe in him whom he hath sent.

True. The work of God within us will be the works of His will done and justified by Him.

It's still His Son who gets the honor and glory of our justification by works, because it is the works of His Son through us, that the Father honors and justifies.

No man can boast of any past works to be saved by, nor can any Christian saint boast of being justified by doing the will of the Father.

 

[Ghada]

The same is true of millennial believers.

True. I believe the Bible teaches only newborn Christians, whether Gentile or Jew, will enter into His heavenly kingdom on earth.

The beginning of His reign over all nations will begin perfect with no more wicked people making war with the Lamb. Nor will there be any useless unneighborly goats at the beginning of His thousand year kingdom on earth.

They will be saved by faith in Jesus alone.

This is Bible truth. Faith in Jesus only, is the only faith of God that saves and justifies a man.

Faith only without works, is not believing in Jesus only as the true God and Christ.

Those that endure till the end obviously will be saved! Many of those martyred before the very end also of course are saved!

True. And resurrected with all saints that died in Christ, as well as them alive and remaining at His second coming.

 

[Ghada]

None that come to Him will He cast out!

Not so long as we are walking as He walked hand in hand with Him.

It is double hearted man that casts off God and His word.

Nevertheless they were disobedient, and rebelled against thee, and cast thy law behind their backs, and slew thy prophets which testified against them to turn them to thee, and they wrought great provocations.

Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him.

Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

By casting away His righteousness and law, we cast away the Lord and His faith from us.

 

[Ghada]

Our own works are as filthy menstruous rags.

This is true for the Christian gospel of being justified by faith alone without works. It only produces continued filthy rags of their own righteousness, and not the pure hearted works of faith in Christ Jesus.

They think they are showing humility by acknowledging they still live filthy. It is in reality their own condemnation of themselves by judgement of their own works.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

The Christian gospel of an impure conversion while still sinning, is not the pure gospel of Jesus Christ. The Christian conversion with filthy living is with an imperfect birth of man's own will. The pure newborn conversion of Jesus Christ is with all the old life passed away, and all the new life is now wholly clean and all blameless of God.

The unclean conversion of Christian sinful living teaches growing by becoming less and less sinful but never going and sinning no more. The clean conversion of Jesus Christ is instantly becoming all of God, and nothing of the devil, and growing therein.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The christ recieved into a heart of lust and continued filthy life of walking after the flesh, is not Jesus Christ.

We are a work in progress.

Christian progressive humanism is to grow by becoming less and less sinful, while the things of our life is never all of God.

That is not the pure conversion and unspotted religion of Jesus Christ, where He makes us completely newborn and sinless to grow that way.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

If some believer was so bad and useless and really sinning then they may need to die. To be handed over to Satan to die so that their spirit will live!

I've heard this Christian doctrine of God killing ungodly believers in order to save them. I call it the Mai Lai massacre of unclean religion.

The God of the Bible does not destroy souls in order to save them. Jesus Christ destroys the works of the devil to save the soul from sinning.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

it is talking about believers!

Exactly. Believers not doing the word have a dead faith of hearing only, that cannot save any man.

Believers already are saved.

In the Bible only believers doing the word are justified of God and in the family of the Son and Father. (Matthew 12)(Mark 3)(Rom 2:13)(James 1)

In the Bible, believers not doing the will of God are called hearers only with dead faith alone by knowledge, not by righteousness of heart.

It doesn't say that. It says faith is dead without works. Not useless to be saved,

This is what Paul calls playing word games. (1 Tim 6:4) It's trying to make difference between being dead and being useless.

A dead faith that is useful to being saved and justified, is not the faith of Jesus in the Bible.

 

[Ghada]

If they are saved, then God chastises and corrects them so they will bear fruit.

The chastisement of God upon the world for sinning, is death and separation from God, beginning with Adam and continuing with all men that are sinning. (Gen 2) (Ezek 18:4)(Rom 5:12, 6:23)

Only those that once tasted of Christ within, now know the difference.

The wages of sin is death of the soul, without respect of persons by the Father.

His will is that we believe and come to Him.

The Bible teaches to first repent and believe the gospel and come to Him, to be saved from sinning against Him.

The Christian gospel of faith without works, that bypasses repenting for believing and coming only, is not the Bible.

Then we are family. Not by works of our own.

Not by works of our own righteousness without Christ, but only by works of His righteousness with Christ.

The Christian family of religion by faith alone, is only the family of Christian religion, not the family of God in the Bible.

In the Bible, only those doing the will of the Father are His family.

 

[Ghada]

Thank you for the good word friend. Yes your right.

It's as important to know our liberty in the law of Christ, as it is to know His law.

Power-hungry Christian ministerial rulers misuse the law to dominate the innocent and naive believers, like the the ruling Jews of old.

They add to the law their own rules and commandments, and become heads of the body rather than Jesus alone.

Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

Paul especially learned that grievous error as Saul of Tarsus.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[Ghada]

Well, hopefully and prayerfully, the following post will help you to get back on the right track :

"Saved; yet so as by Fire" :

1 Corinthians 3:15 "If anyone’s work shall be burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." [KJV]....

Verses 10-14 :
"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

As a "Once Justified, Always Justified" proponent, a common question that is asked of me concerning the above verses runs along the following lines:

" If you've got these people who are not building with the right materials and not building on the right foundation, it seems like, fire is going to come, it's going to test it, if their work is burned up, this person's going to suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. So, if you've got a person who goes to the Judgment Seat of God in the end, and everything gets burned up, how is that different from a lost person who shows up at Judgment Day and has no good works?"

My Perspective :

The context of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 is primarily concerned with the role of teachers in the building up of the church. However, I think the principle behind the text "..will be saved, but only as through fire." (v15), is something that should concern all believers. For it seems to be a reference to the Judgment Seat of Christ; hence verse 13, "each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire..." [note: the terms 'each one' and 'anyone' could be referring to all believers].

All believers will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ [not just those in ministry leadership roles], as in 2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Notice also that the text (i.e. 1 Corinthians 3:15) was originally addressed to believers who Paul referred to as 'carnal' or 'infants' in Christ [1 Corinthians 3:1], because of all their divisions, envy and strife [1 Corinthians 3:3]. One could argue that such believers will be saved, but only as through fire [i.e. by the skin of their teeth]. So the text (1 Cor 3:15) could arguably apply to spiritually immature as well.

Returning to the main text -- verse 15, ""If anyone’s work shall be burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

It's unthinkable to me that there will be a single genuine believer who will arrive at the end of their life and 'the fire is going to hit them', and nothing in his/her life will be deemed to be according to the will of God. It appears to me that there will be nobody entering into Heaven who didn't live a life that was consistent with doing the will of God.

Instead, I propose that there are two main takeaways or precious truths contained within it :

(1) There will be eternal rewards awaiting those who diligently seek to do the will of God and have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We only get one "shot" at those rewards ... there will be no "do-overs" ... so we should earnestly strive for those rewards.

(2) Salvation is simply granted to man as a free gift, through God's immeasurable grace and mercy ... not of works. Those who are not genuine believers [i.e. - "lost people"] imagine this scriptural reality to be either "too easy" or "too good to be true". They somehow cling to the demonic delusion that they can somehow merit a Heavenly inheritance by their moral performance.

The various questions that arise from our main text [1 Cor. 3:10-15] revolve full circle back to the issue of the relationship between faith and works. Faith and works are clearly revealed throughout scripture as being polar opposites concerning their roles in a person's justified status before God. A person can only be considered righteous before God by faith in Christ's atoning work on their behalf.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ... v.9 ,"Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Romans 4:5, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

It is vital to understand that [saving] faith is merely an instrument that grasps Christ, and, as such, is intrinsically unworthy in itself: . . . we are righteous by faith, that is, through mercy for the sake of Christ we are righteous, not because faith is a virtue which merits the remission of sins by its own worthiness. . . . Therefore we do not say that we are righteous by faith in the sense that this is a worthiness of such great power that it merits remission, but in the sense that there must be some instrument/faculty in us by which we lay hold upon our Mediator who intercedes for us, and on account of whom the Father is favorable toward us.

You asked how to ensure our justification with God, and I showed you from the Bible. You toss it aside and go on to put out your own usual stuff.

If you will address what I write, and agree or show anything amiss in it. Then I will return the favor with what you write.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

we are saved by grace, period..

this ios recieved in faith... period

our justification is through faith... period

those who have true faith will work..period

so if someone claims they have faith, but has zero works, and lives like the world. we can most likely consider they real;ly did not have faith to begin with, it was dead.

Again, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.

if there is no living faith, there is no salvation.

Hence why there are no works.. the person has never repented.

 

[MatthewG]

It's as important to know our liberty in the law of Christ, as it is to know His law.

Power-hungry Christian ministerial rulers misuse the law to dominate the innocent and naive believers, like the the ruling Jews of old.

They add to the law their own rules and commandments, and become heads of the body rather than Jesus alone.

Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

Paul especially learned that grievous error as Saul of Tarsus.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

No doubt people behind a pulpit can misuse that power standing there.

we are saved by grace, period..

this ios recieved in faith... period

our justification is through faith... period

those who have true faith will work..period

so if someone claims they have faith, but has zero works, and lives like the world. we can most likely consider they real;ly did not have faith to begin with, it was dead.

Again, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.

if there is no living faith, there is no salvation.

Hence why there are no works.. the person has never repented.

That is wonderful. Now what does one do? Just stop there?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No doubt people behind a pulpit can misuse that power standing there.

That is wonderful. Now what does one do? Just stop there?

God saves us.

not God starts to project of changing and growing us

Its all God man, Just trust him and let him work in you

 

[MatthewG]

God saves us.

not God starts to project of changing and growing us

Its all God man, Just trust him and let him work in you

What's up ETernally Grateful?

How are you doing today?

Abuse happens in church did you know that? People put a front then have sex with children? people go in and a group will talk about what billy joe did the other night? There is all kinds of abuse in Chruch. People misuse the bible and make cults, and abuse those who follow, by beating them, all these are real.

God reconciled the world unto himself through Christ - He did an excellent Job.

Now people come and work out there own slavation with fear and trembling.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What's up ETernally Grateful?

How are you doing today?

Abuse happens in church did you know that? People put a front then have sex with children? people go in and a group will talk about what billy joe did the other night? There is all kinds of abuse in Chruch. People misuse the bible and make cults, and abuse those who follow, by beating them, all these are real.

God reconciled the world unto himself through Christ - He did an excellent Job.

Now people come and work out there own slavation with fear and trembling.

People do a lot of things

But if God saved them, they are saved

Nothing they do can or will change that, because they could never save themselves

 

[MatthewG]

People do a lot of things

But if God saved them, they are saved

Nothing they do can or will change that, because they could never save themselves

I don't believe human beings do not have a freewill to choose, sorry.

Adam and eve was given the ability to Choose, and God was able to Choose.

So if we are created in the image of God, human beings choose.

Do I serve God, or Do I serve myself.

I dont agree with your whole theory of - God does the choosing and you can't do anything about it. God does have mercy on whom he will have mercy though. That his choice.

Except only the predestined - which I believe have already been taken in 70AD by Jesus Christ and it ushered in the Kingdom of God that people enter into today when they seek out for God in faith, and look towards the Son. Now we are just the second fruits of the first fruits, or third or fourth. HOwever you would like to see it.

 

[mailmandan]

The Bible teaches to first repent and believe the gospel and come to Him, to be saved from sinning against Him.

Do you teach sinless perfection? (1 John 1:8-10) You are thoroughly mixed up and are chest deep in works righteousness.

The Christian gospel of faith without works, that bypasses repenting for believing and coming only, is not the Bible.

Repent (change your mind) --new direction of this change of mind--faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21)

Not by works of our own righteousness without Christ, but only by works of His righteousness with Christ.

Titus 3:5 does not make that distinction and works of righteousness (literally, works done in righteousness) are not done apart from Christ. Otherwise, they would be works done in unrighteousness. You can't have it both ways.

The Christian family of religion by faith alone, is only the family of Christian religion, not the family of God in the Bible.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith (faith plus what? faith plus nothing, hence faith alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the Bible, only those doing the will of the Father are His family.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.