We are judged by works, not by faith

[MatthewG]

We will all be judged for what one did at the end of life; i believe it will be quick and God will give his reward to just and unjust; fsithful and faithless.

There is an outside and inside of the kingdom looking at revelation.

Jesus told his disciples to build up spiritual treasures in heavrn and spoke openly about rewards.

 

[Ghada]

That is wonderful. Now what does one do? Just stop there?

No. The Christian gospel of no works with saving faith, does not believe in no works as a Christian at all. They say they continue with filthy rags as before. It just has nothing to do with now being saved and justified with God by faith alone.

It's the gospel of being saved, so long as we believe we are. Less sinning than before would be nice, but not necessary.

 

[MatthewG]

No. The Christian gospel of no works with saving faith, does not believe in no works as a Christian at all. They say they continue with filthy rags as before. It just has nothing to do with now being saved and justified with God by faith alone.

It's the gospel of being saved, so long as we believe we are. Less sinning than before would be nice, but not necessary.

Ghada,

Those in Christ, and serve him as their king and lord, by the spirit of Christ with-in.

Most certainly will sin less. But not be sinless. (changed life through picking up cross, dying with Christ, burial with Christ , and resurrection with or in Christ).

He is the one whom makes us right with God and have peace with him.

Amen, friend.

 

[Ghada]

God saves us.

not God starts to project of changing and growing us

True. It's the Christian religion of justification without works, that starts the imperfect project of changing and growing ourselves less sinful, but never being perfectly changed and going on to sin no more.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

If we receive Christ's perfect and blameless conversion, then we can walk holy and without blame with Him in love. (Eph 1)

Any other imperfect conversion with continued sinful living, is not that of Jesus Christ.

Its all God man, Just trust him and let him work in you

The problem is that the gospel of being justified without works, also proclaims continued sinful living as before, but hopefully with less sinning only, but never sinning no more.

They also promise obeying Jesus and going to sin no more, only happens after the grave.

Their unbelief of their gospel is that no man can keep God's commandments at all times today, but can only become 'totally' righteous by the grave.

They speak of a 'work in progress' and 'gradual change' from doing more sin, to doing less sin. And they do so by their own will alone. It's the Christian religion of progressive humanism by one's own will alone.

Since they separate Christ's justification from their works, then they separate Christ from their 'gradual' change. They cannot allow Christ to be part of their works of gradual change, because then they would have to include His justification. They would have to teach Christ works through us, but not His justification.

There are some who teach a version of this, by saying that Jesus lives within the filthy babes in Christ, but without His holy and righteous character. In the end, once we separate Jesus justification from our outward living, then we must separate Jesus Himself and His righteous character from our living. And this is what is taught, since they teach that their lives are never wholly clean, righteous, and blameless.

If they were to say that Jesus' justification in part of their ongoing works of faith, then they would be teaching Jesus' justification with works. It's impossible to have Jesus in our works, without His justification and character.

And so, the statement of 'letting Christ work in us', has nothing to do with our outward works. It's the gospel of Christ working inwardly only in the mind, that is always separate from our daily living. Therefore, our outward deeds are only done by our own will alone, and not by Jesus.

The Christian gospel of saving faith alone, is that of being only inwardly justified, not outwardly. Seeking to progressively grow outwardly less sinful, can only be by our own will alone. It is the definition of another self-willed religion of man. The Jews rejected Jesus' justification of their works and made the Jews religion. The Christians rejecting Jesus' justification of their works, have done the same in the Christians religion.

 

[Ghada]

Not after we already have life. For the saved, the judgment seat of Christ involves rewards. For the wicked facing judgment, it involves their eternal fate.

I've already responded to mixing ministerial works of faithful Christians, with the works of any man, that the Father judges without respect of persons.

For that matter, who is worthy? Those who accept Jesus!

Those who do the Father's will.

Being worthy to walk with Jesus in while by faith alone, while walking in darkness, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Unrighteous sinners unto the grave do not walk worthy of Jesus in this life nor the next.

So for those believing, taking up their cross seems to involve standing up and being counted as a Christian.

This is man's religious philosophy replacing the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's a rejection of crucifying their old lives of sin, in order to philosophically 'stand up' to be 'counted' as a Christian.

Which is fine in the Christian religion. To be accepted as a Christian in the congregation is indeed by proclamation of faith.

However, the Lord knows who is His, vs who is Christian in religion only.

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Not some idea of being nailed to a cross in the Philippines or some works trip that we think saves us.

This is now a purposed mockery of Jesus' commandment to crucify our old lives on our own cross.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

That did not say those pitiful sort of believers would be damned.

True. In some more extreme forms of Christian religion of faith alone, no one is damned. Some say all the world is now, or will be saved in the end.

It says they are unworthy. Sorry if you thought that verse meant that they were damned to hell due to not carrying a cross just right or not.

Once again, the word play of Christian faith without works. Such as, not being worthy of Jesus has nothing to do with being saved by Jesus, etc...

Being a pitiful sort of believer, living in filthy rags, blind, etc.., is not being an unjustified believer.

There are some Christians believing in saving faith alone apart from works, who do expect to see less sinning in life than before, in order to justify their faith. While others care nothing for how we live, but it's just all grace and faith alone.

That is the Christian version of saving religion for devils, and the children of the devil.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is not doing righteousness is not of God,

And that's suits their filthy Christian living just fine in this life. They believe in being justified by faith alone, while continuing to enjoy all the pleasures of sin until the grave. It's just not the everlasting gospel of eternal salvation in the Bible.

Jesus is the light. If we come to Him then we are in the light.

Says who? If we are saved we are reconciled. If some do not walk as they should, well watch out. He watches and chastises us. (as opposed to casts us into hell)

It means what it says. If we already CAME to Jesus and then sometimes fall, it means we cannot be completely down.

Too bad they are not saved. We are.


No. Look at Adam and Eve. They had the choice. They chose to believe Satan. Whoever comes to Jesus IS accepted! Those who won't are not. He will cast no one away that comes to Him. You are basically pre accepted if you choose Jesus!


Says who? Of course He likes it when we accept the truth! The way we are able to 'do truth' is by Him being in us. Abide in the vine. You do not 'do truth' so well that you graft yourself into the vine!

I've already responded enough to this acceptance only doctrine.

 

[Ghada]

Most certainly will sin less. But not be sinless.

So, you agree with the imperfect conversion of Christian religion, where all things are never pure, new, and of God.

No problem.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Bible teaches us that our works judge us, not our faith. We aren't judged by what we believe, but by what we do.

Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

In the Bible good works have always been necessary to be judged righteous with God. That includes all NT believers, because God is not a respecter of persons when righteously judging any man's work.

The Bible never says we are judged by our faith alone, and not by our works. We are justified by works, because our deeds judge our faith, whether it is of God or not.

Good works is not just a show of faith, but are the necessary means of being just and righteous with God. Christ comes to make our works truly good, because they are not from a pure heart of faith. He does not come to bypass works and judge us by our faith alone.

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

We see here how we are not only justified by our works, but we are also resurrected unto life by our works being judged as good with God.

Faith without works is so useless, because without the good works we do by faith, we do not receive the reward of inheriting the kingdom of God forever.

Faith is not the end goal. Good works are the goal of faith, because the reward of inheritance is by good works, not by faith alone.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The Bible says being charitable in life is greater than faith. Faith and hope are important, and faith is the gift of God, so that we can please Him by doing good. Doing good and not evil is how we are judged by God to be worthy to walk with Him in white forever.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

The gospel flips judgment on its head. Yes, we are judged by our deeds, but the salient question is, on what basis are we forgiven?

Paul associated deeds with motive here.

Romans 2:1-11

Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.​

​

And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
Spotting the sinners is easy. Anyone can spot a sinner a mile away. Greed, envy, murder, strife, and things such as these are easy for us to identify. Works of love are also easy to spot. We know when someone has been kind, generous, and patient with us. But the motive is very hard to spot. We don't know why someone is kind or generous. We can't read each other's hearts.

to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Having the proper motive is essential. Doing good isn't enough, proper inwardness and motive are essential. God is going to grant eternal life who are doing good while seeking glory, honor, and immortality. Some people "do good" for other reasons, which are selfish in nature. God is not rewarding the double-minded man or woman. He will reward the pure in heart.

 

[MatthewG]

So, you agree with the imperfect conversion of Christian religion, where all things are never pure, new, and of God.

No problem.

@Ghada,

What makes you think that?

Hey you can become completely perfect like Jesus with the Spirit of Christ doing it all, then hands off to you.

I just ain't reach that yet.

Here is some scripture to look over here by Paul writting to the saints in Rome,

Romans 7:14-25​

​

Struggling with Sin​

14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. 15 I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.​

18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.​

21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power[b] within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.​

If Paul can claim that by his sinful nature he is a slave to sin, so it is for me too.

He also wrote to the Galatians who were going back to the law, what the spirit causes compared to the nature of the flesh.

And like I said if you can become all perfect in the Spirit of Christ - > in perfecting your flesh and holding back - all praise be to Yahava, and Yeshua.

Love to you,
Matthew

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't want anything to do with being justified by my own faith alone, and you don't want anything to do with God judging you by your works.

No you are being a liar! I never said that. I know God will judge my works, but not for salvation, but for rewards as God's Word says.

If we are saved by works then Paul lied to us!

Romans 4

King James Version

​

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Those who believe what we do somehow is invovled in our salvation are trying to get God to say He owes you salvation by your deeds.

that is a lie!

At least I am glad you see you are preaching a different gospel other than what was given to the church!

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No works, just faith alone in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross!

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

No works, just faith!

Ephesians 2:8-10

King James Version

​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are saved to do good works but not at all by our good works

 

[dad]

I've already responded to mixing ministerial works of faithful Christians, with the works of any man, that the Father judges without respect of persons.

Whatever. It is what it is. Not by works. Salvation is by grace and a gift of God. Once He is in us we start to bear fruit (works) You see salvation is without respect of persons! All who come to Him are accepted. Works are after the fact.

Those who do the Father's will.

Which is believing in Jesus.

Being worthy to walk with Jesus in while by faith alone, while walking in darkness, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Unrighteous sinners unto the grave do not walk worthy of Jesus in this life nor the next.

Believers are resurrected! Both the ones with great reward and works and the others with less. Even some who had all their works burned.

Which is fine in the Christian religion. To be accepted as a Christian in the congregation is indeed by proclamation of faith.

What congregation? Who mentioned one? Our salvation does not depend on anyone else 'accepting' it or not!

However, the Lord knows who is His, vs who is Christian in religion only.

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Yes He does. And so..?

This is now a purposed mockery of Jesus' commandment to crucify our old lives on our own cross.

Exactly. People who think some work such as nailing themselves to a cross, or going to church, or joining their club or cult or whatever is not what taking up our cross is actually about.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Right. Lots of unsaved folks in the end.

True. In some more extreme forms of Christian religion of faith alone, no one is damned. Some say all the world is now, or will be saved in the end.

God is the judge and giver of salvation. If any man ask sincerely, He answers. Not because they have works. But because He did the work! That does not mean 'no one is damned'. That means no one needs to be damned! He made the way.

Once again, the word play of Christian faith without works. Such as, not being worthy of Jesus has nothing to do with being saved by Jesus, etc...

Being a pitiful sort of believer, living in filthy rags, blind, etc.., is not being an unjustified believer.

There are some Christians believing in saving faith alone apart from works, who do expect to see less sinning in life than before, in order to justify their faith. While others care nothing for how we live, but it's just all grace and faith alone.

Salvation has ZERO to do with works. Get over it. Nothing whatsoever. No relation at all. No connection. When we talk about works for those who are saved it is a result of being saved. It is the least we should do. He works on us and chastises us as needed to produce fruit. You should be specific as to what appears in your mind to be living in filthy rags for the saved?? Of course saving faith is apart from works. You seem to put the cart before the horse.

That is the Christian version of saving religion for devils, and the children of the devil.

Not sure what that sanctimonious accusatory little slur is supposed to mean and to whom it is directed. We can say that your own works are as filthy menstrous rags. The only works that are good are those after we are saved, done in love and by and for Jesus.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

As well they should!

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is not doing righteousness is not of God,

Since only Jesus is righteous that means we need to put on Jesus. By abiding in Him after we are saved, we do righteousness, even if we appear unrighteous to men a lot like Peter did. His righteousness is what counts. We should remember here that God is the judge and knows the hearts. Not you. What you think is not what God needs to think. You see some people might claim that 'not doing righteousness' is not going to their church, or having some bad habit we haven't yet kicked like you may have...etc etc Righteousness is actually about the heart and Jesus. Not your idea of right or wrong necessarily. Some people might think it is righteous to go to war and nuke people.

And that's suits their filthy Christian living just fine in this life.

Says who? How about your living? What is it you think makes you better than the sinners who realize they need improvements? (and in whom Jesus is working, and will complete His work)

They believe in being justified by faith alone,

You can't even define that and seem to conflate it with salvation. Do you think those who Jesus died for and saved are not justified? Explain exactly why?

while continuing to enjoy all the pleasures of sin until the grave.

I never met anyone like this that was saved. Did you? Why mention it? What is the pleasure of sin in your book? Any pleasure at all? Too much food? You talk without saying anything. Be specific. You try to make it sound like most believers are not 'really' saved and that they engage in what you consider pleasures of sin? You do realize self righteousness is not a good thing?

It's just not the everlasting gospel of eternal salvation in the Bible.

Says who? You have made vague slurs against some vague group that does vague things that you think are some indication they are liars and evil hypocrites. The everlasting gospel is that Jesus died for OUR sins. That is good news.

 

[dad]

So, you agree with the imperfect conversion of Christian religion, where all things are never pure, new, and of God.

No problem.

Heaven help anyone that thinks they are perfect, sinless, and always perfectly pure

 

[bro.tan]

The Bible teaches us that our works judge us, not our faith. We aren't judged by what we believe, but by what we do.

Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

In the Bible good works have always been necessary to be judged righteous with God. That includes all NT believers, because God is not a respecter of persons when righteously judging any man's work.

The Bible never says we are judged by our faith alone, and not by our works. We are justified by works, because our deeds judge our faith, whether it is of God or not.

Good works is not just a show of faith, but are the necessary means of being just and righteous with God. Christ comes to make our works truly good, because they are not from a pure heart of faith. He does not come to bypass works and judge us by our faith alone.

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

We see here how we are not only justified by our works, but we are also resurrected unto life by our works being judged as good with God.

Faith without works is so useless, because without the good works we do by faith, we do not receive the reward of inheriting the kingdom of God forever.

Faith is not the end goal. Good works are the goal of faith, because the reward of inheritance is by good works, not by faith alone.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The Bible says being charitable in life is greater than faith. Faith and hope are important, and faith is the gift of God, so that we can please Him by doing good. Doing good and not evil is how we are judged by God to be worthy to walk with Him in white forever.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection.
Paul says in Hebrews 11: 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word.

Let's take a look how faith and works go hand in hand, you can't have one with the other. Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? A person can have all the faith they want, but if they have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

 

[Ghada]

all the word says of God will be used as the yardstick to measure the life we lived here!

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Ghada]

Not after we already have life. For the saved, the judgment seat of Christ involves rewards.

This is only for the believers of Jesus doing the righteousness of the word unto the end, not for any man doing unrighteously at the end, whether believer or not.

We are judged by our works in the Bible, not by our faith alone.

For the wicked facing judgment, it involves their eternal fate.

True. Any man doing unrighteousness is judged as wicked by God, whether believer or unbeliever. Every man is judged by his works. We all face God's judgement everyday, whether it be our last on earth or not.

If we are sinning unto the grave, we are judged as sinners forever. If we are doing His righteousness unto the grave, we are judged as His righteous forever.

The Christian gospel of faith without works, that preaches a God who judges some men's works with respect of persons based only on beliefs, is not the Bible. That is a Christian religious teaching of an hypocritical and unjust judge. It's what many religions of men teach. There are religious people who want to believe they are justified and excused from the common judgement of all men's works, based entirely upon what they believe.

Gal 5 says that if anyone is doing unrighteous works of the flesh, then without respect of persons that one will not inherit the kingdom of God. At that time, the Bible says what we believe in makes no difference with the righteous Judge of all the earth, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc...

We are judged by our works as being good or evil, not just by what we believe in at the time.

 

[mailmandan]

Heaven help anyone that thinks they are perfect, sinless, and always perfectly pure

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Ghada]

For that matter, who is worthy?

Who is my neighbor?

Those who accept Jesus!

I've already rebuked from the Bible this acceptance only Christianity.

That is what makes us worthy, not our own works.

This is the opposite of the Bible. Our works are judged by the Father without respect of persons as being worthy of death or life. That is both in the Old and New testaments.

The wicked are worthy of death by the wickedness they do:
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

The righteous are worthy of life by the righteousness they do:
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Every man is judged by the Father as worthy by his walk. No man is judged by the Father as worthy by his belief and talk only.

 

[Ghada]

Says who?

Says the meaning of words. If we are fallen, we are not standing.

The Bible rebukes those who play word games in order to change the meaning of the Bible.

If we are saved we are reconciled.

If we are reconciled we walk as He walked in the light. (John 1)

Believing in being reconciled by faith alone while walking in darkness, is condemned by Jesus as being worse off than the unbelievers.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

If some do not walk as they should, well watch out. He watches and chastises us. (as opposed to casts us into hell)

The warnings of a justified by faith alone gospel, is only lip service to the fear of the Lord.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

It means what it says. If we already CAME to Jesus and then sometimes fall, it means we cannot be completely down.

Not if we repent and come to Jesus the same as any man of the world can come to the Advocate for all the world.

Too bad they are not saved. We are.

Who says?

James 2 says faith without works believers are the same as devils that believe.

If the Christian gospel of being justified by our own faith alone, while doing as children of the devil, is true. Then the devils are also saved and justified with God because they believe the Bible is true.

Some Christians do teach that all men, including Satan will be reconciled to God in the end.

Says who?

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[Ghada]

Justified does not mean saved.

Now, I have been waiting for a faith alone believer to say this. The justification of Christ is separated from the salvation of God.

And that is what faith alone Christians are saying, without saying it, until now. Their faith alone saves them, while their works condemn them. And so being justified by Christ is not necessary to be saved by God.

In the end, what we see is a separation of all things in the Bible from themselves, if it condemns them.

Salvation is separated from doing good. Righteousness is separated from doing righteousness. Being in the light is separated from walking in the light. Reconciliation with God is separated from fellowship with Christ. Salvation of Jesus is separated from being justified by Christ.

There are more.

It is BY doing His word, which is to receive Jesus' free gift of eternal life, that He makes us righteous.

And now by word play, doing is believing only. And so now we see again the inconsistency in faith without works.

They teach salvation by faith without works, and then say their faith is work.

This now teaches that being saved faith without works is impossible, since saving faith is doing the word and obeying the gospel.

Further word play is now necessary to preserve the gospel of being saved without works, by saying doing is not work.

That act of faith that results in eternal life alone doesn't justify us. Our lives are not over and complete usually just by getting saved. To have rewards from God, we need some obedience and work.

This exemplifies the gospel of salvation without works. There must be some obedience, but not all. It is the gospel of double heartedness for life.

Jesus preaches single hearted love of God, where all is walking with Him in His light. Not just sometimes.

Really? I never met one of those. A perfect person? Sinless? Now I have met some that truly pretended they were!

Since the truth of the Bible is not being rejected here, then this is just a confession that all their fellow Christians are double hearted. It coincides with their own confession of still living filthy as before their faith alone conversion.

It also shows a justification of oneself, based on the idea that no one is always pleasing the Father, as the Son. It declares no Christian is walking as Jesus walked, and all Christians are hypocrites.

This judgment is of course based upon themselves and the only Christian group they purpose to be part of.

It also accuses the righteous as being just pretenders, while they themselves are not pretenders, because they make no bones about still living as filthy rags.

False. Even in hell punishments differ. For believers, rewards differ also. Some will shine as the sun. Others as stars, others, apparently will be ashamed of their lives to some degree.

This is the gospel of unclean conversion, where the best they hope for is double heartedness in the faith.

It also says Christ accepts lame, unclean, and spotted sacrifice to Himself. That's not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[dad]

This is only for the believers of Jesus doing the righteousness of the word unto the end, not for any man doing unrighteously at the end, whether believer or not.

It is for those who were Raptured and all believers actually. Sorry if you thought it involved some works trip to get there. Again, you put the cart before the horse. Jesus looks at our works at that judgment rather than uses works to invite people there.

We are judged by our works in the Bible, not by our faith alone.

Great. Nothing to do with Salvation

True. Any man doing unrighteousness is judged as wicked by God, whether believer or unbeliever. Every man is judged by his works. We all face God's judgement everyday, whether it be our last on earth or not.

Not at the judgment seat of Christ for believers. That iis for us and where crowns etc are given out. You seem to be conflating the judgment of the wicked after the 1000 years with the judgment of Jesus with believers.

If we are sinning unto the grave, we are judged as sinners forever. If we are doing His righteousness unto the grave, we are judged as His righteous forever.

How about you? Are you sinless now? Pure? Worthy etc? What if the soldiers had killed Peter that day he was denying Jesus and cussing etc? Would he have 'sinned unto the grave'? How about David? Paul (the chief of sinners) etc etc

The Christian gospel of faith without works, that preaches a God who judges some men's works with respect of persons based only on beliefs, is not the Bible.

Not a topic in this thread either that I have seen. That makes it a strawman claim. We will be judged and rewarded based on our works. Not saved by them. By the time Jesus rewards people based on their lives and what they did for him what He is judging is saved believers. Not judging whether they are saved or not.

That is a Christian religious teaching of an hypocritical and unjust judge.

No. That was someone unsaved. Their heart was therefore not right. Nor therefore would their actions be right either. You do not get to try to apply that to the people Jesus died for and that came to Him.

It's what many religions of men teach. There are religious people who want to believe they are justified and excused from the common judgement of all men's works, based entirely upon what they believe.

That is correct as far as salvation, if they believe in Jesus! Another term some use for that is 'saved sinner'. Contrast that to the hypocrite beating his chest thanking God he is not as these other men!

Gal 5 says that if anyone is doing unrighteous works of the flesh, then without respect of persons that one will not inherit the kingdom of God. At that time, the Bible says what we believe in makes no difference with the righteous Judge of all the earth, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc...

So we must ask what is that talking about? We know it is not talking about saved people.

Galatians 6:8
because the one who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

How do we sow to the Spirit? We get saved! We accept His free gift of eternal life. Then He comes to live in us. Then we sow spiritually. It is not sowing real hard that gets us saved.

We are judged by our works as being good or evil, not just by what we believe in at the time.

After we are saved, we receive rewards according to our deeds. If not saved, then we are judged eternally by our deeds. That is why Jesus died, to save us from that.

 

[dad]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

We might also ask why Jesus needed to die with such sinless saints running around. He came to save sinners, NOT the righteous.