WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

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theefaith

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I think everyone would want to be ignorant like the thief? What happened with the thief is a demonstration of salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. And how do you suppose the thief had faith that he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Lord?

Tong
R3033

no the sacraments were not required yet the new covenant was not in effect
 

Philip James

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What truth are you referring to?

If you are referring to the truth of the things of the Spirit of God, no, they don’t change. And those are found written in scriptures. God’s word is truth and does not change.

However, truth written in scriptures can be perverted by wicked and faithless men.

Why do you ask?

Tong
R3016

Then those things which were True for our brothers and sisters in 50 AD, 100 AD, 200 AD, 500 AD, 1000 AD... Must still be True today..
And that most certainly includes the Sacraments.

Peace be with you!
 

theefaith

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Suffering Necessary part of Salvation!

Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He is our model in everything!

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 
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amigo de christo

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The thief was ignorant
The apostles haven’t begun teaching yet
And we must be taught Lk 1:4
Put on some soft lovely christain hyms before you read what i type . So as you wont assume it is hate .
I am gonna ask you two questions .
ONE . Are you trying to convince yourself that your path is right
Two , are you trying to persaude me to join that RCC .
Option two is not on the table my dear friend . I wont be going in that direction .
Rather out of great love and tears and pleas i beg you flee that system and fast .
 

stunnedbygrace

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Yes, and that is all done by trust.

Paul didnt say all of that because He expected men could do it. He said it so they could see the futility of even trying. But it seems like each man must try until he wears himself out and finally goes back to again trusting the One who can.
 
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Truman

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of course we are not saved by our works. We are saved by trust. But most of us are not really in the trust (faith). That’s a serious thing - saying you trust but proving you don’t in many little ways.

From start to finish, it is all done by trust. But we are easily swayed from our trust and we do mix other things into it. Do we see that at first? No. God knows how to take us to more trust, piece by piece. It’s painful for us and we struggle in it, until He shows us how we say we trust but don’t, in many little ways.

There is a verse that says, I cannot make you stand firm if you won’t stand firm. If you read it and think you are the one standing firm, you probably have not yet seen yourself or your unfaithfulnesses.

We are, currently, Israel in the desert after having passed through the Red Sea. They trusted God to save their lives, so they stepped out under the wall of water. We, also, trusted God to save us alive. But then Israel did not continue in that trust when it came to provision/food. And that is where we are. Worrying about money, how we will pay the bills, the state of the economy. But real trust would not do that. Real trust would say, God had ravens bring food to a man, God made jars of oil and flour last for a widow and her son, God made food fall from the sky, God can put holes in pockets or sew up holes in pockets, God can make a pair of shoes last 40 years.

We do not see miracles and so we say, God doesn’t do them because they aren’t necessary any more. And we KNOW that is wrong because we read, and He could not do many miracles there because of their lack of trust. But we don’t want miracles, we want money. So He will give us money until it begins to come out of our noses and we still won’t have enough.

We are exactly where Israel was, insisting on gathering more than enough for the day and worrying God will not give us enough again tomorrow. It’s one step but we can’t bring ourselves to take it and so we cannot go any further with God and into what He has for us. Repent and turn back to your trust. He cannot make you stand firm if you will not stand firm. The kingdom of God is not a matter of a lot of talk but of power. Where is the power? All the world is “woke,” apparently. We have been lulled to sleep. Admit the truth, repent, turn back to trust. We must not just read about trust, we must do it and stand very firm in it and wait to see what God will do for us.
He says that He is my provider. He tells me not to worry about tomorrow. I don't want to argue with Him anymore. He deserves better than that.
I choose to trust You. :)
 

stunnedbygrace

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Suffering Necessary part of Salvation!

Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He is our model in everything!

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

And those verses describe you?
 

theefaith

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Put on some soft lovely christain hyms before you read what i type . So as you wont assume it is hate .
I am gonna ask you two questions .
ONE . Are you trying to convince yourself that your path is right
Two , are you trying to persaude me to join that RCC .
Option two is not on the table my dear friend . I wont be going in that direction .
Rather out of great love and tears and pleas i beg you flee that system and fast .

the Bible only speaks of one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
How many new covenants are there anyway?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Do you understand that He is saying here you must die? Do you think you can do that? Can you even figure out HOW to die while you are living? No, you really cant. Your flesh wars against the Spirit and you well know it everytime you get angry at how someone has treated you badly and you mutter and murder them in your heart. Dead men dont shriek when someone kicks them.

Ask God for what you lack. Then wait in trust.
 
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Taodeching

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No problem. You have reason not to answer my question. Anyone who ask the same question could just read the scriptures and see for themselves if the apostles preach and taught what the RCC preached about Mary, if they prayed the rosary, and all.

The Scriptures were not meant to contain everything, they are for a specific thing not something general. The fatal flaw of evangelical protestant is acting as if the Scriptures are everything, even the Scriptures never say to follow them alone but men's tradition says to follow Scripture alone. FYI I am not Catholic I don't like when people are lazy and make up lies just because they think they are holier because they are evangelical instead of trying to find the truth. Also there is no RCC it is called the Catholic Church of the roman or Latin rite. There are many rites in the Catholic Church like Armenian, Assyrian, Byzantine, etc.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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The paralytic. (Mt.9)
The woman caught in adultery. (John 8)


The law that God gave the children of Israel through Moses was holy, just, and good.

<<<In a couple situations He explained that the Mosaic Law was flat out wrong.>>>

Please cite those two situations.

Tong
R3015


Many Christians give lip service to the fact they live in the New Covenant.

The truth however is that because they fail to realise they are no longer under the law they are really still living in an Old Covenant reality.

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.
 
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theefaith

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Do you understand that He is saying here you must die? Do you think you can do that? Can you even figure out HOW to die while you are living? No, you really cant. Your flesh wars against the Spirit and you well know it everytime you get angry at how someone has treated you badly and you mutter and murder them in your heart. Dead men dont shriek when someone kicks them.

Ask God for what you lack. Then wait in trust.

done!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 
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Philip James

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the Bible only speaks of one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
How many new covenants are there anyway?

"This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you."

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 
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amigo de christo

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"This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you."

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
The question i ask you i will not be offended at all with your answer .
I gave this question to thee faith and he answered it honestly .
I was just wondering if you think the same way on this as does thee faith .
Remember i wont get upset or offended so just answer it honestly .
Seeing that i do not recognize the RCC as the church , YET i do firmly believe in Christ
do you think i am saved or not . I just want your honest opinion . Thee faith gave his and i did not get mad or upset .
 

Philip James

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Seeing that i do not recognize the RCC as the church , YET i do firmly believe in Christ

Hello amigo,

That is not my place to judge. Only Jesus can judge our hearts..

Personally, I don't think anyone who humbles themselves and hopes in Jesus will put to shame..

But I do believe we will be called to account for that which is given to us..

'to him who has been given much, much is expected'

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!