We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

[Barrd]

For Deliverance From The Enemy
My Father, I fear my enemy
I fear his deadly power
Roaring like a raging lion
Seeking whom he might devour
From his deceit and tyranny
Lord, keep me safe, I pray
For he lies in wait for me
Claws unsheathed to slay
For he knows the evil of my heart
And just what snares to set
He knows just where to aim each dart
Just how to spread his net
Oh, lead me not into temptation
But deliver me this day
My Father, guard me through the night
And keep me in Thy way

Copyright 2014 by Deborah Anne Barrd​

from "My Little Prayer Book"​

 

[lforrest]

I would disagree. Overcoming is through believing, not willpower.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Good, it would stink to require willpower only to be required to surrender it at the same time.

 

[Barrd]

Incorrect. Jesus Christ died for all sins. Scripture plainly says once we believe we have eternal life. What are we believing in Barrd?

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Tit 3:7 NIV so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

*sigh*
ATP, those are all beautiful verses...
But they are not the only verses in the Bible, nor are they the only verses that deal with salvation.
We've been over these verses many times.
Obviously, we aren't going to get anywhere in a war of verses...not as long as you refuse to accept that those other verses also mean what they say, as well.

That is why I thought we'd try a spot of logic.
Can you answer this simple question for me, please, ATP?
Humor me....I'm an old lady ^_^

It's like this.
You tell your son, "Look, I have to go to work this afternoon. I want you to do your chores while I am gone."
Your son says, "Sure, Dad," but you know that the minute you turn your back, he's going to plop down on the couch and start playing video games.
So you tell him, "If you listen to me, I will buy you an ice cream cone."
You go to work, you come back, and of course, the kid hasn't done even one chore.
Your son says "Okay, Daddy, I listened to you. Now where is my ice cream?"

Do you:
a. take him out and buy him an ice cream cone?
or
b. tell him that, since he did not do what you asked, he will not get an ice cream cone?

 

[Barrd]

Good, it would stink to require willpower only to be required to surrender it at the same time.

One sort of wonders why the Lord would grant us His power to supplement our weakness, if He didn't expect us to use it.

 

[ATP]

But they are not the only verses in the Bible, nor are they the only verses that deal with salvation.

No matter how many verses are in the Bible about salvation, eternity is the end result. You still don't get it.

 

[Barrd]

No matter how many verses are in the Bible about salvation, eternity is the end result. You still don't get it.

We are not debating the end result. Of course, the end result is eternity, there is no doubt about that at all.
What is under debate here is how we get to that end result.
For some reason, you seem to think that believing in Jesus has nothing to do with believing what He said, or obeying Him.
I don't understand that at all....

 

[ATP]

We are not debating the end result.

You are debating the end result Barrd. You believe if you sin, you will not go to heaven. Sinless perfection doctrine is false.

 

[ATP]

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.
The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

 

[lforrest]

One sort of wonders why the Lord would grant us His power to supplement our weakness, if He didn't expect us to use it.

2 Timothy 1:7 "For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline."

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Well....humm

Sinners goes to heaven because we cannot be sinless.

So God just live with it.

:unsure:

 

[Barrd]

You are debating the end result Barrd. You believe if you sin, you will not go to heaven. Sinless perfection doctrine is false.

I don't think I have ever said we had to be perfect. We are going to "mess up."
But when we do, we must repent. Sin is still sin, even for those who have been saved. To be washed clean in the waters of baptism, and then go back to your sinful ways is compared to a sow who was washed going back to her wallowing in the mud...or (yuck) a dog returning to his vomit.
Have you ever seen a sow wallowing in the mud? Not a pretty sight. Do you want Jesus to see you as a filthy pig?
Have you ever seen a dog lapping up it's own vomit? Double yuck! Do you want Jesus to see you as a dog lapping up vomit? (ewww!)

Obviously, we cannot attain to "sinless perfection" in this life, as long as our spirits are encased in this "body of death" as Paul called it.
But "sinless perfection is indeed what we are working toward...and when we are raised, we will indeed have achieved that sinless perfection.
Oh, what a glorious day that will be!

 

[Barrd]

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.
The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

Yes, I love that song.
I even wrote a new verse for it:

The Lord Who made the lame to walk
And caused the blind to see
The Lord who calmed the winds and waves
Has brought sweet grace to me

 

[Barrd]

Or you might like this piece:

​

AMAZING GRACE​

​

Oh, my Lord, I stand before Thee​

Naked and ashamed​

I have broken Thy commandment​

I have sinned against Thy name​

Forgive me, Lord, I beg Thee​

Look not upon my sin​

But look, instead, upon Thy Son​

And let new life begin​

Oh, my Father, I do thank Thee​

For this Gift beyond all price​

For Thine Own Beloved Son​

My perfect Sacrifice​

When I think He gave His life for me​

In death He took my place​

I am driven then to silence​

By such Amazing Grace​

​

Copyright Deborah Anne Barrd​

from "My Little Prayerbook"​

 

[ATP]

Well....humm

Sinners goes to heaven because we cannot be sinless.

So God just live with it.

:unsure:

Yes, we don't deserve salvation. But he died anyways. Because of love.

 

[ATP]

Obviously, we cannot attain to "sinless perfection" in this life,

And that is why we are covered by grace. Yes I agree. We should repent. It's hard not to with the spirit of God living in you.

 

[Joyful]

I didn't mean to sound discouraging, I agree with Barrd and the scriptures concerning those who love Jesus doing his will. I want to point out that it isn't so simple to always do his will. People struggle with sin all the time, some struggle because they love Jesus.

This reminds me of Is 53:12, It is the strong with whom Jesus will share the spoils. Who are the strong, those who have the strength of will to overcome the flesh and live for Jesus? Can we agree that you must have willpower in order to overcome?

Jesus understands it very well. That's why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to help us to overcome our sins.

No one says it is easy but we should not going around telling people we don't have to obey His teachings to be saved because Jesus died for our sins.

It is sin to take His death on the cross for granted. Jesus says in many ways to be faithful to Him over and over, it is because if we don't avoid to sin we will not inherit kingdom..

If we take His death on the cross for granted like OSAS teaches, we surely die. No eternal life.

 

[Barrd]

And that is why we are covered by grace. Yes I agree. We should repent. It's hard not to with the spirit of God living in you.

Almost there, ATP.
Not "we should repent"...but "we MUST repent if we expect to attain to eternal life"...
We can not go shooting up classrooms, or raping little boys, or any other sin, and expect to be accepted in God's Heaven.
You told me that Hitler could go to Heaven...but no, not without repenting of the horrible crimes he committed.

 

[ATP]

it is because if we don't avoid to sin we will not inherit kingdom..

Nowhere in scripture is this proven.

 

[Joyful]

You are debating the end result Barrd. You believe if you sin, you will not go to heaven. Sinless perfection doctrine is false.

So you are preaching to Jesus?

Jesus says to sin no more and be perfect.

 

[ATP]

Almost there, ATP.
Not "we should repent"...but "we MUST repent if we expect to attain to eternal life"...

You still don't get it. Jesus died for all sins, past present and future. Daily repenting or not repenting has nothing to do with our eternal security. Eternal is forever.