We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

[lforrest]

No one who hates God will be saved. Scripture is quite clear on that. What you describe is someone who used to hate God but that isn't what ATP is promoting.

I think that is what everyone thinks he is promoting, but I didn't make the same assumption.

That is why I said I think there is confusion as to what it means to be saved.

 

[ATP]

Being saved is more than a one time event when you accept Jesus as your Lord, It is a state of being. We should consider what it means when we say Jesus is Lord, what is he Lord of? Shouldn't that include our own lives?

Believing comes once, sanctification is the process.

 

[ewq1938]

I think that is what everyone thinks he is promoting, but I didn't make the same assumption.

ATP made a pretty clear statement about it so no assumptions are needed.

 

[lforrest]

ATP made a pretty clear statement about it so no assumptions are needed.

This can easily be clarified by ATP.

 

[Barrd]

Believing comes once, sanctification is the process.

Yes, ATP! Yes, yes yes, yes!!!
Sanctification is a process that will continue throughout the believer's life.
And it involves some effort on our part. We are going to sin, because, as you said, sinless perfection is beyond our present capacity.
But we are not to wallow in our sin like an old filthy pig. We are to turn from it....EVERY TIME. We must repent...EVERY TIME.
Sinless perfection is exactly what we are striving to attain...it is the prize that we are racing for, the crown we hope to achieve.

 

[Barrd]

This can easily be clarified by ATP.

Until he does clarify it, all we have is his remark to go on. I don't think any of us can read his mind.

 

[ATP]

Yes, ATP! Yes, yes yes, yes!!!
Sanctification is a process that will continue throughout the believer's life.
And it involves some effort on our part. We are going to sin, because, as you said, sinless perfection is beyond our present capacity.
But we are not to wallow in our sin like an old filthy pig. We are to turn from it....EVERY TIME. We must repent...EVERY TIME.
Sinless perfection is exactly what we are striving to attain...it is the prize that we are racing for, the crown we hope to achieve.

But if Joe Bob doesn't repent tonight and dies, he is still going to heaven because he accepted the free gift of salvation, and is covered in the blood of Jesus.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

So whats the different between a sinner and a born again sinner ?

A born again sinner gets to go the heaven and have eternal life.

A plain ole sinner will die spirit, soul and body right ?

Got to have Jesus to have eternal life.

 

[Barrd]

But if Joe Bob doesn't repent tonight and dies, he is still going to heaven because he accepted the free gift of salvation, and is covered in the blood of Jesus.

If Joe Bob is truly committed to Christ, he's going to repent the moment he realizes that he has sinned. It isn't so much Joe Bob's words that count...it is his heart. Is it turned toward God?
It's all about attitude. If you harden your heart toward God with some idea that you are above the law, or that the law is not binding on you, and that "grace" is actually a license to sin, you will not see the Kingdom of God no matter how many empty "professions of faith" you make.
Drawing near to Him with your lips isn't enough...you must also draw near to Him with your heart.

 

[ATP]

So whats the different between a sinner and a born again sinner ?

A born again sinner gets to go the heaven and have eternal life.

A plain ole sinner will die spirit, soul and body right ?

Got to have Jesus to have eternal life.

A nonbeliever is still an enemy of God, and God's wrath is still on him John 3:36 NIV.

A believer is no longer an enemy and is now disciplined and sanctified by God throughout their lives Heb 12:4-13 NIV.

 

[Joyful]

Everyone who are posting or reading this thread, I am a non-trin so I am not allowed to post anywhere except unorthodox board.

blessings.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

A nonbeliever is still an enemy of God, and God's wrath is still on him John 3:36 NIV.

A believer is no longer an enemy and is now disciplined and sanctified by God throughout their lives Heb 12:4-13 NIV.

Just curious ATP

How was the OT saved before the laws of Moses and during it ?

You still have the same loving God at all times.

They repented and believed in God, how were they saved ?

 

[ATP]

Just curious ATP

How was the OT saved before the laws of Moses and during it ?

You still have the same loving God at all times.

They repented and believed in God, how was they saved ?

Only God is the judge of those born before resurrection, before the seal of God and before the blood of Jesus shed on the cross.

John 6:27 NIV Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

John 8:34-36 NIV Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

John 17:26 NIV I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Cor 9:2 NIV Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV / 2 Cor 3:12 NIV Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us,

2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 2:27 NIV As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Jude 1:1 NIV Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

Rev 9:4 NIV They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

God judge all the times, NT and OT

They way I see it.
OT and NT both had to believe in God to be saved.

So being saved is being saved right ?

The OT saints had faith and God loved them to, are they not saved from death ?

If just believing is the key, the OT saints believed also.

If God is Jesus or Jesus is God what makes the different as long as you believe that he is ?

 

[ATP]

God judge all the times, NT and OT

They way I see it.
OT and NT both had to believe in God to be saved.

So being saved is being saved right ?

The OT saints had faith and God loved them to, are they not saved from death ?

If just believing is the key, the OT saints believed also.

If God is Jesus or Jesus is God what makes the different as long as you believe that he is ?

Because the blood of Jesus changed everything.
Why do you think a woman's period is no longer considered an unclean act Lev 18:19 NIV,
or why we are no longer sacrificing animals for sins.
Because Jesus paid the sin debt. It is finished Gazer.

John 19:28-30 NIV Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

So you are not gonna say whether they are saved or not ?

 

[ATP]

So you are not gonna say whether they are saved or not ?

No, because only God knows the heart. Do you believe Jesus died for all sins Gazer.

 

[Barrd]

Because the blood of Jesus changed everything.
Why do you think a woman's period is no longer considered an unclean act Lev 18:19 NIV,
or why we are no longer sacrificing animals for sins.
Because Jesus paid the sin debt. It is finished Gazer.

John 19:28-30 NIV Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Is it still a sin to worship other gods or goddesses? Or to worship idols? Is it a sin to use God's name as a curse, or to use it in any other manner other than as God's name?
Is it still a sin to disrespect your parents, then? To be abusive or neglectful toward them?
Is it a sin for a married man to have a mistress "on the side", or for a married woman to have a lover other than her husband?
Is it still a sin to steal?
Is it a sin to spread nasty lies about someone?
Is murder still a sin?

What, exactly, is sin, according to you?
And if Jesus paid our sin debt, do you think that we may now sin? After all, it's been paid for, so we may as well indulge the pleasures of our flesh...is that what you are saying?

 

[ATP]

Is it still a sin to worship other gods or goddesses? Or to worship idols? Is it a sin to use God's name as a curse, or to use it in any other manner other than as God's name?
Is it still a sin to disrespect your parents, then? To be abusive or neglectful toward them?
Is it a sin for a married man to have a mistress "on the side", or for a married woman to have a lover other than her husband?
Is it still a sin to steal?
Is it a sin to spread nasty lies about someone?
Is murder still a sin?

What, exactly, is sin, according to you?
And if Jesus paid our sin debt, do you think that we may now sin? After all, it's been paid for, so we may as well indulge the pleasures of our flesh...is that what you are saying?

Yes these are sins. Jesus dying for all sins vs us repenting from them on a daily basis is apples and oranges.

 

[ATP]

It all goes back to that blood shed on the cross.

Acts 20:28 NIV Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Rom 3:25 NIV God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--

1 Cor 11:25 NIV In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

Eph 1:7-8 NIV In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

Heb 10:19-22 NIV Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

Rev 1:4-5 NIV John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,