We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

[Bible_Gazer]

No, because only God knows the heart. Do you believe Jesus died for all sins Gazer.

So if the OT saints heart was right then what saved them ?
Maybe not the laws as you have said.
So just believe like you have said ?

So was the OT salvation good or no good ?


Yes to your last question
Romans 10:10
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For those who ask for forgiveness.

 

[Barrd]

Yes these are sins. Jesus dying for all sins vs us repenting from them on a daily basis is apples and oranges.

It sounds as if you are saying that Jesus died for our sins in order to give us the freedom to do those sins according to our own will.
Surely that cannot be what you mean to say?
Tell me, do you sin "on a daily basis"? No, don't answer that. But if a person gossips on a daily basis, or steals on a daily basis, or does any sin on a daily basis, then yes, that person needs to repent on a daily basis.
If your heart is toward God I honestly don't see how you can deliberately break His law every single day. If you are having a problem defeating a particular sin, then surely you'd have sense enough to ask God to give you the strength to overcome whatever it is that you just can't seem to stop doing.

 

[Barrd]

It all goes back to that blood shed on the cross.

Acts 20:28 NIV Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Rom 3:25 NIV God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--

1 Cor 11:25 NIV In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

Eph 1:7-8 NIV In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

Heb 10:19-22 NIV Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

Rev 1:4-5 NIV John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

Just for a moment, it might be good to quit worrying about these verses...they are all great verses, and I'm not saying we should not go to the Word of God about these things, don't get me wrong...but just for a moment, instead of either one of us trying to prove we are "right", by quoting a bunch of verses, it might be a good idea to think about what that shed blood really cost Jesus.
I very seriously think that, after 2000 years, we've sort of forgotten the horror of it. To those early Christians it was all too terrifyingly real. To us, "crucifixion" has become little more than a "church word". Those living under Roman rule could hardly bear to speak of it. We toss the word around as if it were nothing.
Perhaps, if we could get it through our thick heads that this "crucifixion" we speak of so lightly was real...the cruel scourging, the crown of thorns, the spikes driven through real flesh and blood...all of this was agonizingly real...hear the carrion eating birds screeching overhead, listen to the screams of the men, smell the blood as it flows from Him...get an actual idea of what was really happening...we might have a bit more appreciation of what it cost our Lord to purchase our precious freedom, and maybe we might be a bit more hesitant to trample that precious, precious blood under our feet.
Knowing that God...the Creator Himself...stepped down from His unspeakable glory in order to go through unspeakable torments...and that He did it for love of His wayward creatures...that ought to drive us to our knees in abject silence.

 

[ATP]

So if the OT saints heart was right then what saved them ?
Maybe not the laws as you have said.
So just believe like you have said ?

So was the OT salvation good or no good ?


Yes to your last question
Romans 10:10
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For those who ask for forgiveness.

Faith saved them in the OT. Faith in what Jesus was doing for them. Yes, that is all. Once you believe you have eternal life. The Word of God is very clear on this..John 3:14-15 NIV, John 3:16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, 1 John 5:13-14 NIV...............What are we believing in Gazer?

It sounds as if you are saying that Jesus died for our sins in order to give us the freedom to do those sins according to our own will.

We already went over this Barrd. Why would I believe that??

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Yes, faith saved the OT saints and they had to believe just like the NT saints do.

So did the OT saints get eternal life when they died ?

So just believing only is the way to make it ?????????????????????????

God will not judge because once you believe its said and done you are save ????????????????????????

Why would Jesus want people to be born again of the water and spirit, if believing first is all that matters ?
or even the baptism of fire
why chastise us when we are sinning ?

Being Born again has a important part in getting into the Kingdom of God.

 

[ATP]

Yes, faith saved the OT saints and they had to believe just like the NT saints do.

So did the OT saints get eternal life when they died ?

So just believing only is the way to make it ?????????????????????????

God will not judge because once you believe its said and done you are save ????????????????????????

Why would Jesus want people to be born again of the water and spirit, if believing first is all that matters ?
or even the baptism of fire
why chastise us when we are sinning ?

Being Born again has a important part in getting into the Kingdom of God.

Get born again first, THEN follow Christ.

Water and spirit, water here is referring to spiritual water flowing from the kingdom of God into your soul. It's called anointing Gazer.

If you're dipping your head in a lake without believing in the Son of God, all you will be is a drowned rat.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Get born again first, THEN follow Christ.

Water and spirit, water here is referring to spiritual water flowing from the kingdom of God into your soul. It's called anointing Gazer.

If you're dipping your head in a lake without believing in the Son of God, all you will be is a drowned rat.

yes you need to be born again to follow Christ and Jesus told us how to do that.
natural water is needed
it replicate the natural birth of a child.
a child is the water and at birth it go through the blood and then it speak a voice and that let you know its alive.

Spiritually
When we believe Jesus is the son of God. and the we go thru baptism
We go thru the natural water and then Jesus blood is applied and we speak an unknown language and then we know we are alive.
We have completed our being born again.
Seem to be the bible way.

simple

 

[ATP]

yes you need to be born again to follow Christ and Jesus told us how to do that.
natural water is needed
it replicate the natural birth of a child.
a child is the water and at birth it go through the blood and then it speak a voice and that let you know its alive.

This sentence doesn't even make sense..."a child is the water and at birth it go through the blood and then it speak a voice and that let you know its alive."

Listen carefully, ok. John 3:5 NIV is not speaking about natural water. It's referring to spiritual water from the kingdom of God in the third heaven flowing directly into our souls. This is what we call anointing and God's love being poured into us. You still with me?

Isa 12:3 NIV With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

Isa 40:31 NIV but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.

John 4:13-14 NIV Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 7:38-39 NIV Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Rev 22:1-2 NIV Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

 

[John3:16]

John 3:5 NIV is not speaking about natural water. It's referring to spiritual water from the kingdom of God in the third heaven flowing directly into our souls. This is what we call anointing and God's love being poured into us.

Lets take a look at John chapter three...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is clearly speaking of water H2O. Lets take a close look at the scripture...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of waterG5204 and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G5204

ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth?s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples

Jesus said to be born again, is of water and spirit. And, without this we cannot enter the kingdom. The book of Acts will cross reference this in chapter two...

[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The core of the gospel is that Jesus died, was buried and raised himself from the dead (the resurrection John 10:18), thus having overcome death and the grave. And, Peter said to obey the gospel...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = receive Holy Spirit

The book of Romans gives the SUM of this ...

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


God bless.

 

[ATP]

This is clearly speaking of water H2O. Lets take a close look at the scripture...

Then why does scripture say that you are saved only by grace through faith? It is not H2O. If you're being baptized in H2O without faith or believing, all you will be is a drowned rat with wet clothes. Water is symbolic for the kingdom of God.

 

[John3:16]

Then why does scripture say that you are saved only by grace through faith? It is not H2O. If you're being baptized in H2O without faith or believing, all you will be is a drowned rat with wet clothes. Water is symbolic for the kingdom of God.

Of course we are saved by grace through faith. A person can do nothing to save himself. No amount of good works or adherence to law can save him...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a free gift from God, which man cannot merit, earn, or deserve. Grace through faith, is to believe on Jesus, which includes believing His Word, and truly believing His Word includes obedience. Faith is more than mental assent, or intellectual acknowledgment, it includes trust, reliance, and application. We cannot separate saving faith from obedience...

Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Jesus said that we CANNOT enter into the kingdom unless we are born again, which is of waterH20and spirit. I then cross referenced this with the book of Acts chapter two...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to OBEY the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Death, Burial, Resurrection...
1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit


1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


We are identified with Jesus' burial through water baptism...

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


God bless.

 

[Barrd]

Of course we are saved by grace through faith. A person can do nothing to save himself. No amount of good works or adherence to law can save him...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a free gift from God, which man cannot merit, earn, or deserve. Grace through faith, is to believe on Jesus, which includes believing His Word, and truly believing His Word includes obedience. Faith is more than mental assent, or intellectual acknowledgment, it includes trust, reliance, and application. We cannot separate saving faith from obedience...

Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Jesus said that we CANNOT enter into the kingdom unless we are born again, which is of waterH20and spirit. I then cross referenced this with the book of Acts chapter two...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to OBEY the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Death, Burial, Resurrection...
1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit


1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


We are identified with Jesus' burial through water baptism...

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


God bless.

I've never heard anyone put it more plainly. Thank you for this post.

 

[ATP]

Jesus said that we CANNOT enter into the kingdom unless we are born again, which is of waterH20and spirit. I then cross referenced this with the book of Acts chapter two...

It's referring to spiritual water, not H2O.

 

[John3:16]

It's referring to spiritual water, not H2O.

Lets look at the verse...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of waterG5204 and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G5204

ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth?s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples

Clearly Jesus is talking about waterH20
I then cross referenced with the book of Acts...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptizedG907 every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G907

βαπτίζω
baptizō

1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm


Lets see where else this is used...

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptizedG907, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


And, lets not forget Galatians...
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptizedG907 into Christ have put on Christ.

The Gospel is the Death, Burial, Reserecrion, which we are to obey...

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptizedG907 into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


To deny waterH20 baptism is to deny the Gospel (Death, Burial, Resurection).

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the waterG5204, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptizedG907 him.


God bless.

 

[ewq1938]

Lets look at the verse...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of waterG5204 and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G5204

ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth?s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples

Clearly Jesus is talking about waterH20

lol, that's like giving the definition of LAMB and claiming Jesus is an animal not a man.

The other person is correct, it's a figurative type of water not literal H20 water. Even definition 1f proves your "definition" theory wrong.

 

[ATP]

Thayer's Greek Definitions:

John 3:5 NIV is not speaking about natural water. It's referring to spiritual water from the kingdom of God in the third heaven flowing directly into our souls. This is what we call anointing and God's love being poured into us. For example, take your username John 3:16. It's not saying once you believe and are baptized in H20 you then have eternal life, no. It is saying, once you believe you have eternal life. Believing comes through faith, not H2O.

Notice the Greek word for water in John 3:5 NIV is "hudór". Also notice the Greek word for water in John 4:13-14 NIV, John 7:38-39 NIV, 1 Pet 3:21 NIV, Rev 7:17 NIV, Rev 21:6 NIV, Rev 22:1-2 NIV, Rev 22:17 NIV is also "hudór", which is referring to spiritual water. The problem isn't with the definition of water, it's your belief in what must be done in order to obtain salvation Matt 3:11 NIV.

John 4:13-14 NIV Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 7:38-39 NIV Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

1 Pet 3:21 NIV and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Rev 7:17 NIV For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ "

Rev 21:6 NIV He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Rev 22:1-2 NIV Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:17 NIV The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

 

[John3:16]

John 3:5 NIV is not speaking about natural water. It's referring to spiritual water from the kingdom of God in the third heaven flowing directly into our souls.

The Bible does speak of living water, but to get the living water we MUST be born again. Jesus said to Nicodemous this it is done by Water and Spirit (note the word "and").

John the Baptist preached and administered the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins...

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Jesus himself submitted to water baptism as an example for us to follow, even though he had no sin to remit.

Just before Jesus ascended into heaven He commanded His disciples to go into all the world, to preach the gospel, to make disciples, and to baptize them...

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Peter said, when the question was asked, "what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37), Peter said to OBEY the Gospel of Christ...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said to OBEY the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Death, Burial, Resurrection)...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptism in Jesus name for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Ghost

God remits sins at water baptism.
To deny water baptism is to deny the Gospel (Death, Burial, Resurrection)...

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
God bless.

 

[Barrd]

I do recall reading that Jesus, Himself was baptized by John the Baptist.
John questioned Him...and Jesus told Him that it was to "fulfill all righteousness".

Should we not, if at all possible, follow His example?

 

[John3:16]

I do recall reading that Jesus, Himself was baptized by John the Baptist.
John questioned Him...and Jesus told Him that it was to "fulfill all righteousness".

Should we not, if at all possible, follow His example?

Excelent observation.

God bless!

 

[ATP]

Being baptized in H2O is not a requirement to be saved. We are saved by grace through faith only.