We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

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Barrd

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ewq1938 said:
Still doesn't equate to anyone now in the new covenant needing water baptism to be saved. Scripture states belief in Christ is what saves.
Well, for me, if there is some way I can please Jesus Christ, I don't mind doing it. Seeing as He seems to think being baptized is a good thing, I see no reason not to follow His example. It's one of the simplest things He's asked us to do. I honestly don't see why anyone would object....it's just water. I promise, it won't hurt you...
You and others may do as you like...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

ewq1938

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I prefer the spiritual baptism from Christ myself:


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


The Barrd said:
Well, for me, if there is some way I can please Jesus Christ, I don't mind doing it. Seeing as He seems to think being baptized is a good thing, I see no reason not to follow His example. It's one of the simplest things He's asked us to do. I honestly don't see why anyone would object....it's just water. I promise, it won't hurt you...
You and others may do as you like...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

Barrd

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ewq1938 said:
I prefer the spiritual baptism from Christ myself:


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Everyone who comes to Christ receives that baptism.
I would say that the H2O baptism is more of a "birth announcement"....a public acknowledgement of the baptism you're talking about.
 

John3:16

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ewq1938 said:
I prefer the spiritual baptism from Christ myself:


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
One receives the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism, but never before repentance. And, water baptism is for the remission of sins. Therefore, how do you suppose one gets into the kingdom without remitting sin, since you claim water baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless.
 

ewq1938

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The Barrd said:
Everyone who comes to Christ receives that baptism.
I would say that the H2O baptism is more of a "birth announcement"....a public acknowledgement of the baptism you're talking about.

Water baptism was only done to teach people about repentance and forgiveness in a way they could understand....water washing off dirt equating to God washing off sin. If you understand repentance and forgiveness you are already "baptised". Water is no longer needed because most people understand the concept of forgiveness.
 

ewq1938

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John3:16 said:
One receives the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism, but never before repentance.

That isn't true. Christ received the Holy Spirit and he never had sin so he never repented.

And, water baptism is for the remission of sins.
I know.


Therefore, how do you suppose one gets into the kingdom without remitting sin, since you claim water baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation.
You can repent of sins verbally. Water is no longer needed in the remission process.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Belief and confession results in salvation. Water baptism is not needed because it is exactly the same as verbal confession.

Nothing in scripture demands water baptism as necessary for salvation. It is always belief in Christ that saves, and non-belief that condemns.
 

Barrd

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ewq1938 said:
That isn't true. Christ received the Holy Spirit and he never had sin so he never repented.
Jesus was baptized:

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now, if Jesus was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness"....should we not follow His example? And isn't it interesting that the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending to light upon Him?

Honestly, it's just water. It won't hurt you.


ewq1938 said:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I don't understand the reluctance to comply with this simple instruction.
Once again...it's just water. You bathe in it every day (I hope). You drink it.
Your body is something like two thirds water....
It's nothing to be afraid of. You don't even have to go in over your head.

ewq1938 said:
You can repent of sins verbally. Water is no longer needed in the remission process.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Belief and confession results in salvation. Water baptism is not needed because it is exactly the same as verbal confession.

Nothing in scripture demands water baptism as necessary for salvation. It is always belief in Christ that saves, and non-belief that condemns.
On the other hand, baptism is a step of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Is it "necessary"? That's debatable. I'm not prepared to say that it is "necessary" or it is not "necessary". It is enough for me that Jesus required it. Because I love Him, I am happy to comply. Because He is my Hero, and my Role-Model, I am thrilled to walk in His footsteps.
I believe in Him...therefore I will follow Him...down into the water, or anywhere else He leads me.
 

ewq1938

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The Barrd said:
Jesus was baptized:

Jesus had the Holy Spirit long before baptism and Jesus never repented of sin.
 

Barrd

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ewq1938 said:
Jesus had the Holy Spirit long before baptism and Jesus never repented of sin.
Jesus never had any sin to repent of.
But He allowed Himself to be made sin in our behalf.

He also told us to take up our cross and follow Him.

Jesus was baptized. That is a fact of Biblical history.
He said that i was to fulfill all righteousness. That is another fact of Biblical history.

You can deny these facts all you want....but they are going to keep right on being facts anyway.
 

ATP

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The Barrd said:
Jesus never had any sin to repent of.
But He allowed Himself to be made sin in our behalf.

He also told us to take up our cross and follow Him.

Jesus was baptized. That is a fact of Biblical history.
He said that i was to fulfill all righteousness. That is another fact of Biblical history.

You can deny these facts all you want....but they are going to keep right on being facts anyway.
and it's still not a requirement for salvation. we are only saved by grace through faith.
 

Barrd

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ATP said:
and it's still not a requirement for salvation. we are only saved by grace through faith.
While I understand that, ATP, I believe that we are called to live a holy life.
Nothing can shake that belief...

And a part of living that holy life is to follow Him in baptism.

So, you do what you think is right....
And so will I....
 

ATP

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The Barrd said:
While I understand that, ATP, I believe that we are called to live a holy life.
Nothing can shake that belief...
Being baptized in H2O doesn't make you holy.
 

Barrd

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ATP said:
Being baptized in H2O doesn't make you holy.
Who are you to say that? Only Jesus can say who is living a holy life....and who is not.
Jesus was baptized....He said that it was to "fulfill all righteousness".
I honestly don't understand the objection....I mean, it's just water. It won't burn you.


Unless....you wouldn't be a vampire, by any chance, would you? I understand they have a major aversion to holy water...like the water in a baptismal pool, for instance...
 

tom55

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The Barrd said:

On the other hand, baptism is a step of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Is it "necessary"? That's debatable. I'm not prepared to say that it is "necessary" or it is not "necessary".


I wonder how one of the criminals (I think his name was Tom55 :D ) that was hanging on the cross next to Jesus got to heaven when there is no indication he was baptized? Jesus said to him "....Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or how do children get to heaven if they haven't been baptized until the "age of reason" as some churches practice? Makes one wonder if baptism is "necessary" to get to "paradise"!!
 

John3:16

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ewq1938 said:
You can repent of sins verbally. Water is no longer needed in the remission process.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Belief and confession results in salvation. Water baptism is not needed because it is exactly the same as verbal confession.

Nothing in scripture demands water baptism as necessary for salvation. It is always belief in Christ that saves, and non-belief that condemns.
How convenient that you stopped at Romans 10:11, why don't you let Paul finish is thoughts...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Here we see that Paul saying, one has to here the word when preached correctly, not simply take a verse and try to make it fit to your view of "simply believe and confession".

There is obviously more to "preaching Jesus" that to simply "believe and confess."

Here are some examples...

Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
[27] And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
[28] Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
[29] Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
[30] And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
[34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Here we see that he preached unto him Jesus. And, somewhere in that correct preaching, Water Baptism was preached. Why? - Because you cant preach "Jesus" without preaching water baptism because it remits sin.

[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


Lets look at another example...

Act 16:24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
[25] And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
[26] And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
[27] And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
[29] Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Many simply stop right there and say one is saved by simply "believing."
However, the key is NOT this verse, it is in what follows...

[32] And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
[34] And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Note they must here the word, which included Water Baptism for the remission of sins. And, like the eunuch in the desert (Yes, God even provided water in the desert), was baptized.


The Gospel of Christ is the Death, Burial, Resurrection. And, to deny water baptism is to deny the Gospel.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless.
 

ewq1938

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John3:16 said:
How convenient that you stopped at Romans 10:11, why don't you let Paul finish is thoughts...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Here we see that Paul saying, one has to here the word when preached correctly, not simply take a verse and try to make it fit to your view of "simply believe and confession".

There is obviously more to "preaching Jesus" that to simply "believe and confess."

Here are some examples...

Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
[27] And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
[28] Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
[29] Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
[30] And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
[34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Here we see that he preached unto him Jesus. And, somewhere in that correct preaching, Water Baptism was preached. Why? - Because you cant preach "Jesus" without preaching water baptism because it remits sin.
[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


Lets look at another example...

Act 16:24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
[25] And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
[26] And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
[27] And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
[29] Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Many simply stop right there and say one is saved by simply "believing."
However, the key is NOT this verse, it is in what follows...
[32] And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
[34] And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Note they must here the word, which included Water Baptism for the remission of sins. And, like the eunuch in the desert (Yes, God even provided water in the desert), was baptized.


The Gospel of Christ is the Death, Burial, Resurrection. And, to deny water baptism is to deny the Gospel.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless.

None of this disputes what I posted so I will simply re-post. If you think you can dispute this, go ahead but you tossed a bunch of red herrings in your last attempt:


You can repent of sins verbally. Water is no longer needed in the remission process.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Belief and confession results in salvation. Water baptism is not needed because it is exactly the same as verbal confession.

Nothing in scripture demands water baptism as necessary for salvation. It is always belief in Christ that saves, and non-belief that condemns.

verbal confession = water baptism for the remission of sins

The truth is there are many ways to have sin removed from a person, baptism and verbal confession are but two of them...equal in purpose and intent.
 

Barrd

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tom55 said:
The Barrd said:

On the other hand, baptism is a step of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Is it "necessary"? That's debatable. I'm not prepared to say that it is "necessary" or it is not "necessary".


I wonder how one of the criminals (I think his name was Tom55 :D ) that was hanging on the cross next to Jesus got to heaven when there is no indication he was baptized? Jesus said to him "....Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or how do children get to heaven if they haven't been baptized until the "age of reason" as some churches practice? Makes one wonder if baptism is "necessary" to get to "paradise"!!
:D I like this post.

Like I said, I'm not prepared to say whether baptism is "necessary" or not.
But Jesus was baptized.
If it was good enough for Him, it's good enough for me.

Might even be good enough for a criminal named Tom55....that is unless he's afraid of the water....
 

mjrhealth

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I doubt if theer is one here who has problems with wate rbaptism, they have simply not a requirement for salvation.. As for Batism

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

What was He speaking of here, teh cup of His suffering, His prayer at the rock, and His baptism of death.

That we have John

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Than we have Jesus Himself declare

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

I will add that a friend of mine has a daughter who has already being with and spoken to Christ, and yet only know does she desire to get baptized. How we limit God.

He confirmed what John had spoken

Than we have again,

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

And that is how we are baptized, washed in His Blood, clothed in His righteousness.

In all His Love