Were the brothers in Matthew 13:55 Mary's sons?

[BeyondET]

BeyondET said:
Indeed, He is speaking of His earthly brother and sister and mother as an example. He certainly wouldn't use them figuratively if He had none.

If that were true, then try and refute this:

Why wouldn't it be, in His own words He mentions He has brother and sister and mother.

Scripture answered questions then and now. Surely He knew the issue would arise one day, rather He had siblings or not. The people that came to Him didn't say His mother and cousins are wanting to speak to Him.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Isn't there a rule about posting the same thing over and over and over? Does it drive home any new truth, or is it an act of desperation in the need to be "right"?
@Sigma We all know how desperate you appear to be on this issue, but it isn't working.....only a fellow Catholic will believe you because they too must, or your precious Mary was not the perpetual virgin you revere.....how tragic. A loving God would not withhold other children from her and her husband because he had NO reason to.....the Catholic church created the reason.

 

[Sigma]

Why wouldn't it be, in His own words He mentions He has brother and sister and mother.

Then how do you reconcile the following:

The flaw in your believing James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 of the Twelve were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he had he had to have been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

 

[BeyondET]

Then how do you reconcile the following:

The flaw in your believing James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 of the Twelve were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he had he had to have been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

The verse beforehand, the distinction between His disciples and His mother and brothers. Of course His mother wasn't among His 12 disciples nor His brothers, that was figuratively as well.

notice in the whole conversation, no one mentioned His sisters but Jesus, do you know why?

Matthew 12:49
Stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

 

[Sigma]

The verse beforehand, the distinction between His disciples and His mother and brothers. Of coarse His mother wasn't among His 12 disciples nor His brothers, that was figuratively as well.

notice in the whole conversation, no one mentioned His sisters but Jesus, do you know why?

Matthew 12:49
Stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

You believe James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 of the Twelve were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he had he had to have been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

Therefore, how could James and the other three "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 be Jesus's siblings when they weren't even sons of Joseph and Mary?

 

[BeyondET]

You believe James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 of the Twelve were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he had he had to have been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

Therefore, how could James and the other three "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 be Jesus's siblings when they weren't even sons of Joseph and Mary?

Because in His own words makes the distinction.

Matthew 12:49
Stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

 

[Sigma]

Because in His own words makes the distinction.

However, in Paul's own words he says that the James you claim was Jesus's sibling was one of the twelve apostles. That means he was either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary, so he couldn't have been a sibling a Jesus.

 

[BeyondET]

However, in Paul's own words he says that the James you claim was Jesus's sibling was one of the twelve apostles. That means he was either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary, so he couldn't have been a sibling a Jesus.

Post the verses, show me Paul's statement about James Jesus's sibling was one of the twelve?

Mind you that Paul's statements comes after the four gospels. People became disciples apostles and the like afterwards.

 

[Sigma]

Post the verses, show me Paul's statement about James Jesus's sibling was one of the twelve?

I have been and you keep ignoring them. Go here and read the opening post.

 

[BeyondET]

I have been and you keep ignoring them. Go here and read the opening post.

Galatians is after the four gospels.

Just because Jesus brother James was there doesn't mean he was one of the twelve who Jesus had chosen back in the four gospels. No James Jesus's brother became a apostle a disciple after Jesus was gone.

In Gal Paul makes that distinction about James the Lord's brother. Yes he was a disciple he wasn't one of the twelve.

Jesus clarifies that, at the wedding in Cana, that His disciples at that time, where not of His own family in Matthew 12:49.

 

[Sigma]

Just because Jesus's brother James was there doesn't mean he was one of the twelve...

You said James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul first mentions he had seen the apostle Peter, one of the twelve apostles, in Jerusalem, then continues to say that he didn't see any of the other twelve apostles there, except James, who could've only been James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

 

[BeyondET]

You said James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul first mentions he had seen the apostle Peter, one of the twelve apostles, in Jerusalem, then continues to say that he didn't see any of the other twelve apostles there, except James, who could've only been James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

The Lord's brother James was an apostle as Paul was. And that's why Paul distinguished one of the twelve Peter the apostle from the Lord's brother who was an apostle just not one of the twelve.

And he didn't say he didn't see any of the other twelve apostles, your adding the statement of twelve that isn't in scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 

[Sigma]

1 Corinthians 15:9

For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul did say that and you said James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul first mentions he had seen the apostle Peter, one of the twelve apostles, in Jerusalem, then continues to say that he didn't see any of the other twelve apostles there, except James, who could've only been James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

 

[BeyondET]

Paul did say that and you said James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul first mentions he had seen the apostle Peter, one of the twelve apostles, in Jerusalem, then continues to say that he didn't see any of the other twelve apostles there, except James, who could've only been James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

The verses doesn't talk about any amount of apostles just apostles.

there was plenty of apostles in Paul's time. Just because Peter of the twelve was there, doesn't mean James the Lord's brother was one of the twelve. He saw no other apostles period.

do you understand Paul's statements are after the four gospels. Where even Jesus family continues to spread the gospel?

Gal 1
18 Only after three years did I go up to Jerusalem to confer with Cephas, and I stayed with him fifteen days.

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

 

[Sigma]

The Lord's brother James was an apostle as Paul was. And that's why Paul distinguish one of the twelve, Peter the apostle, from the Lord's brother who was an apostle, just not one of the twelve.

Why does James's mere title of "the Lord's brother" rule out he was one of the twelve apostles?

 

[Sigma]

...he (Jesus) was in no way God

The Pharisees were of the same opinion.

God said to Moses: "I AM WHO AM." (Ex. 3:14)]
Pharisees to Jesus: "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57)
Jesus to the Pharisees: "...before Abraham was made, I AM." (Jn. 8:58)

Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself, “I AM”. The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." (Jn. 8:59)

"Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God." (Jn. 20:28)

Is that enough for you to recognize God in the flesh?

 

[BeyondET]

Why does James's mere title of "the Lord's brother" rule out he was one of the twelve apostles?

For the same reason the Joseph in the verse below, wasn't one of the twelve disciples but a disciple nonetheless just like James the Lord's brother.

Or do you think Joseph of Arimathaea was one of the twelve disciples?

Matthew 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

 

[Sigma]

For the same reason the Joseph in the verse below, wasn't one of the twelve disciples but a disciple nonetheless just like James the Lord's brother.

Or do you think Joseph of Arimathaea was one of the twelve disciples?

Matthew 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

There's a distinction between the twelve apostles and Jesus's disciples, of which there were many. All apostles are considered His disciples, but not all of his disciples are called "apostles". You need to explain why apostle James's mere title of "the Lord's brother" rules out he was one of the twelve apostles. Also, where in scripture do you read that Jesus elected His own sibling as an apostle?

 

[BeyondET]

There's a distinction between the twelve apostles and Jesus's disciples, of which there were many. All apostles are considered His disciples, but not all of his disciples are called "apostles". You need to explain why apostle James's mere title of "the Lord's brother" rules out he was one of the twelve apostles. Also, where in scripture do you read that Jesus elected His own sibling as an apostle?

Same reason why Paul wasn't one of the twelve apostles but nonetheless an apostle just like James the Lord's brother.

What's the difference between 12 disciples and 12 apostles?

And what's the difference between disciples and apostles?

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 

[Sigma]

Same reason why Paul wasn't one of the twelve apostles but nonetheless an apostle just like James the Lord's brother.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Telling me Paul wasn't one of the twelve isn't explaining why apostle James's mere title of "the Lord's brother" rules out he was one of the twelve apostles. Also, again, where in Scripture do you read that Jesus elected His own "sibling" as an apostle?