Were the brothers in Matthew 13:55 Mary's sons?

[Sigma]

There isn't two James of the twelve.

Incorrect, two of the Twelve were named "James:" "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible it was either of these Jameses of the Twelve: James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and Paul called them by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other James. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?

...He talked to James an apostle, then all the other apostles, not of the twelve, because He already spoke to them in verse five.

"He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5)
Jesus appeared to Peter then later to all the Twelve apostles as a whole.

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters (disciples) at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

"then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also." (1 Cor. 15:7)

If Jesus appeared to "all 'other' apostles," then Paul, an "other apostle", would've been included with them, but He was seen and mentioned separately from them and lastly. Therefore, Jesus appeared to one of the James's of the Twelve, then later to all the Twelve apostles as a whole, and finally to Paul. This means the James in 1 Cor. 15:7, whom you believe is Jesus's sibling, could've only been one of the Jameses of the Twelve: James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, but neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

 

[quietthinker]

Incorrect, two of the Twelve were named "James:" "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible it was either of these Jameses of the Twelve: James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and Paul called them by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other James. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?



"He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5)
Jesus appeared to Peter then later to all the Twelve apostles as a whole.

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters (disciples) at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

"then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also." (1 Cor. 15:7)

If Jesus appeared to "all 'other' apostles," then Paul, an "other apostle", would've been included with them, but He was seen and mentioned separately from them and lastly. Therefore, Jesus appeared to one of the James's of the Twelve, then later to all the Twelve apostles as a whole, and finally to Paul.

Therefore, the James in 1 Cor. 15:7, whom you believe is Jesus's sibling, could've only been one of the Jameses of the Twelve: James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

keep barking..... is there something there worth getting?

 

[Sigma]

Not what it says in Greek.....one little word changes the whole meaning of that verse and satan knows it.
You will not even see it unless you know what you’re looking at....

"Ἐν (In) ἀρχῇ (beginning) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word), καὶ (and) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

τὸν θεόν is “THE God” and this is how Yahweh is identified in Greek. The nameless God of the Jews was identified by the definite article (τὸν) and there is only one Yahweh in that verse. Whoever you are quoting has deliberately obscured this fact.
In Greek it reads “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus)......and the Word was with the God (Yahweh) and the Word was divine.

So then verse 14 says it was the Word who became flesh, not τὸν θεόν (Yahweh).

Run it through Google translate and see that it means “the God”....that is the way the Father is identified in the Greek scriptures. Jesus is identified as θεόν, which can apply to any divine personage or one authorised by God, as Jesus was.

In Jn. 1:1 we read,

"Ἐν (In) ἀρχῇ (beginning) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

It doesn't only say "τὸν θεόν," but rather "πρὸς τὸν θεόν" ("and the Word was with God):"
"καὶ (and) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God),...

It doesn't say the Word was "divine," but rather "and God was the Word:"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..."

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

You agree Jesus is the Word Who became flesh (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as God in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus was not only the Messiah, but God Incarnate as well.

Since when does existing before Abraham make Jesus eternal? It simply means that he was in existence before Abraham was born...

Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them:
"Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

In Jn. 8:58, first Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? My answer is, as He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” (theos) 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? (theos) 35 If he called ‘gods’(theos) those against whom the word of God (ho theos) came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s (ho theos) Son’? (John 10:31-36)

The son is never called “ho theos”.......only the Father is identified that way.

The Father and the Son are one. The Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did.

And if you look up the word "theos" in Greek you will see that Thomas was not calling Jesus "God" (capital "G") because that word relates to any divinely authorized person...

"ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

How does God give a part of himself to himself?

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptizing) αὐτοὺς (them) εἰς (in) τὸ (the) ὄνομα (name) τοῦ (of the) πατρὸς (Father) καὶ (and) τοῦ (the) υἱοῦ (Son) καὶ (and) τοῦ (the) ἁγίου (Holy) πνεύματος (Spirit)." (Matt. 28:19)

I suppose before I jump into explaining the Trinity: God's single and threefold nature, I should first ask, do you believe the name in which to baptize: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, refers to God?

 

[BeyondET]

Incorrect, two of the Twelve were named "James:" "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)



"He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5)
Jesus appeared to Peter then later to all the Twelve apostles as a whole.

Yes I think your correct there was 2 disciples and Jesus bother was the 3rd.

Interesting thing about 1 cor 15:5 there was only 11 disciples including Peter, Judas hung himself before the resurrection.

 

[Sigma]

Yes I think your correct there was 2 disciples and Jesus bother was the 3rd.

That's not what I said. You said there wasn't two men named "James" of the Twelve apostles, but there was: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agreed that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was either apostle James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and thus Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?

Interesting thing about 1 cor 15:5 there was only 11 disciples, Judas hung himself before the resurrection.

Again, in 1. Cor. 15:5, it says "twelve apostles," not "eleven apostles," and it's because apostle Judas Iscariot's successor, Matthias, had already been chosen (Ac. 1:15-26).

 

[BeyondET]

That's not what I said. You said there wasn't two men named "James" of the Twelve apostles, but there was: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agreed that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was either apostle James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and thus Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?



Again, in 1. Cor. 15:5, it says "twelve apostles," not "eleven apostles," and it's because apostle Judas Iscariot's successor, Matthias, had already been chosen (Ac. 1:15-26).

Yes I agree with you there was two disciples named James.

And no Jesus did not appear to the 11 disciples after they had chosen Matthias. There is no scripture that supports that idea.

 

[Sigma]

Yes I agree with you there was two disciples named James.

It's good you now see there was two men named "James" of the Twelve apostles: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agreed that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?

And no Jesus did not appear to the 11 disciples after they had chose Matthias. There is no scripture that supports that idea.

Incorrect. In 1 Cor. 15:5, Jesus appeared to all twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5), and this was after apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve killed himself, and thus the reason it says "the Twelve" is because Matthias had already succeeded Judas and was present.

 

[BeyondET]

It's good you now see there was two men named "James" of the Twelve apostles: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3)

Now, you agreed that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?



Incorrect. In 1 Cor. 15:5, Jesus appeared to all twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5), and this was after apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve killed himself, and thus the reason it says "the Twelve" is because Matthias had already succeeded Judas and was present.

I believe there was three James.

You posted the verses in Acts when Matthias was chosen by casting lots. No where does it say Jesus appeared after acts.

Now the two on the road, there is Matthias before being chosen. Is probably the only correct answer considering the book of acts is well after the resurrection and the ascension the last time Jesus appeared to the disciples in the four gospels.

 

[Sigma]

I believe there was three James.

Initially, you said there wasn't two men of the Twelve apostles named "James," but there was: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3). After learning this, you said, "Yes I agree with you there was two disciples named James." In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul refers to an apostle named "James," whom you claim wasn't the same person as apostle James of Zebedee, nor apostle James of Alphaeus.

However, you did agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?

...the book of acts is well after the resurrection and the ascension...

Jesus did not appear to the 11 disciples after they had chosen Matthias. There is no scripture that supports that idea.

Interesting thing about 1 cor 15:5 there was only 11 disciples including Peter, Judas hung himself before the resurrection.

The Book of Acts, which is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is followed by the Book of Corinthians, and in 1 Cor. 15:5, it says Jesus appeared to the Twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred (Ac. 1:15-26).

 

[BeyondET]

Initially, you said there wasn't two men of the Twelve apostles named "James," but there was: "...the names of the twelve apostles are these...James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)...James the son of Alphaeus..." (Matt. 10:3). After learning this, you said, "Yes I agree with you there was two disciples named James." In Gal. 1:18-19, Paul refers to an apostle named "James," whom you claim wasn't the same person as apostle James of Zebedee, nor apostle James of Alphaeus.

However, you did agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4). Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other. If it's not a possibility to you, then why?





The Book of Acts, which is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is followed by the Book of Corinthians, and in 1 Cor. 15:5, it says Jesus appeared to the Twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred (Ac. 1:15-26).

As I've mentioned there was three James, and one was Jesus half sibling.

Matthias wasn't chosen during Jesus time on earth. Acts 1 is clear when Matthias was chosen. And the ending found in the four gospels is spoke of.

Acts 1
9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.

11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

Matthias Replaces Judas

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near the city, a Sabbath day’s journey away. 13 When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (a gathering of about a hundred and twenty) and said, 16“Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit foretold through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in this ministry.”

 

[BeyondET]

Though even here there are 12 named. Surely it's not Judas who hung himself or Matthias

Acts 1
13 When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.

 

[Sigma]

You agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example. And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4).

Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, do you agree it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other?

Matthias wasn't chosen during Jesus time on earth.

No shit, but after Jesus's resurrection He appeared to people. You said the following:

...the book of acts is well after the resurrection and the ascension...

Jesus did not appear to the 11 disciples after they had chosen Matthias. There is no scripture that supports that idea.

Interesting thing about 1 cor 15:5 there was only 11 disciples including Peter, Judas hung himself before the resurrection.

The Book of Acts, which is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is followed by the Book of Corinthians, and in 1 Cor. 15:5, it says Jesus appeared to the Twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred (Ac. 1:15-26).

 

[BeyondET]

You agree that an apostle of the Twelve can also be called by a given title, as in the case of apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve with their title "the Sons of Thunder," for example.

A title yes

And, in Gal. 1:18, Paul referred to the apostle Simon (Peter) of the Twelve by calling him "Cephas" (Matt. 10:2), so people knew that he wasn't referring to the apostle Simon the Zealot of the Twelve (Matt. 10:4).

That's a name.

Therefore, regarding the apostle James in Gal. 1:19, do you agree it's possible he was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other?

I think it's possible that was Jesus bother and not one of the disciples.



No shit, but after Jesus's resurrection He appeared to people. You said the following:


Easy on the language it's a Christian site.


The Book of Acts, which is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is followed by the Book of Corinthians, and in 1 Cor. 15:5, it says Jesus appeared to the Twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred (Ac. 1:15-26).

Tell me why Matthias isn't mentioned in the four gospels?

 

[Sigma]

I think it's possible that was Jesus bother and not one of the disciples.

Why do you think it's not possible that the apostle James in Gal. 1:19 was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other? Especially since the apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve were called by the title "the Sons of Thunder?"

Though even here there are 12 named. Surely it's not Judas who hung himself or Matthias

Acts 1:13 When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: (1) Peter and (2) John, (3) James and (4) Andrew, (5) Philip and (6) Thomas, (7) Bartholomew and (8) Matthew, (9) James son of Alphaeus, (10) Simon the Zealot, and (11) Judas son of James.

In Ac. 1:13, there's actually eleven apostles, not twelve... :face palm:, and I'll tell you why: because this scene takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's resurrection and ascension. The election of Judas's successor, Matthias, begins a couple verses later in Ac. 1:15-26. Following that scene in the Book of Acts which, again, is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is this scene in the Book of Corinthians: "He (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred.

 

[BeyondET]

Why do you think it's not possible that the apostle James in Gal. 1:19 was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other? Especially since the apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve were called by the title "the Sons of Thunder?"



In Ac. 1:13, there's actually eleven apostles, not twelve... :face palm:, and I'll tell you why again: because this scene takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's resurrection and ascension. The election of Judas's successor, Matthias, begins a couple verses later in Ac. 1:15-26.

The Book of Acts, which is well after the suicide of apostle Judas Iscariot of the Twelve and Jesus's resurrection and ascension, is followed by the Book of Corinthians, and in 1 Cor. 15:5, it says Jesus appeared to the Twelve apostles after seeing Peter alone: "He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because the election of Judas's successor, Matthias, had already occurred (Ac. 1:15-26).

Its possible there could of been 12 James, but I believe there was 2 disciples and 1 half bother named James.

Yes thank you for pointing that out there was only eleven after the ascension.

Jesus never appeared to Matthias unless on the road before the upper room.

Matthias was on the road with Cephas, is the only possible reason for 1 cor 15. Because Matthias is never mentioned in the four gospels. And Jesus didn't appear in Acts 1.

 

[Sigma]

I think it's possible that was Jesus bother and not one of the disciples.

Why do you think it's not possible that the apostle James in Gal. 1:19 was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other? Especially since the apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve were called by the title "the Sons of Thunder?"

Though even here there are 12 named. Surely it's not Judas who hung himself or Matthias

Acts 1:13 When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: (1) Peter and (2) John, (3) James and (4) Andrew, (5) Philip and (6) Thomas, (7) Bartholomew and (8) Matthew, (9) James son of Alphaeus, (10) Simon the Zealot, and (11) Judas son of James.

In Ac. 1:13, there's actually eleven apostles, not twelve, and I'll tell you why: because this scene takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's resurrection and ascension. The election of Judas's successor, Matthias, by the eleven apostles begins a couple verses later in Ac. 1:15-26. Following that scene in the Book of Acts is this scene in the Book of Corinthians: "He (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1. Cor. 15:5). The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because Matthias was present, as his election as Judas's successor had occurred previously.

 

[BeyondET]

Why do you think it's not possible that the apostle James in Gal. 1:19 was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other? Especially since the apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve were called by the title "the Sons of Thunder?"



In Ac. 1:13, there's actually eleven apostles, not twelve, and I'll tell you why: because this scene takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's resurrection and ascension. The election of Judas's successor, Matthias, by the eleven apostles begins a couple verses later in Ac. 1:15-26. Following that scene in the Book of Acts is this scene in the Book of Corinthians: "He (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1. Cor. 15:5). The reason it says "the Twelve" and not "the eleven" is because Matthias was present, as his election as Judas's successor had occurred previously.

Yea you posted that already

 

[Sigma]

Though even here there are 12 named. Surely it's not Judas who hung himself or Matthias

Acts 1:13 When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: (1) Peter and (2) John, (3) James and (4) Andrew, (5) Philip and (6) Thomas, (7) Bartholomew and (8) Matthew, (9) James son of Alphaeus, (10) Simon the Zealot, and (11) Judas son of James.

Jesus never appeared to Matthias...

In Ac. 1:13, there's actually eleven apostles, not twelve, because this scene takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's resurrection and ascension. The election of Judas's successor, Matthias, by the eleven apostles begins a couple verses later in Ac. 1:15-26. Following that scene is this one in the Book of Corinthians: "He (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1. Cor. 15:5). The reason it says Jesus appeard to "the twelve" and not to "the eleven" is because Matthias was one of twelve He appeared to, as Matthias's election as Judas's successor had occurred previously.

 

[BeyondET]

BeyondET said:
Jesus never appeared to Matthias...

Now your cutting off half my statement, I'm done with your cursing and deceptions. That's appalling to say the least.

 

[Sigma]

Now your cutting off half my statement, I'm done with your cursing and deceptions. That's appalling to say the least.

I put an ellipsis indicating there was more you said. Calm down.

Jesus did not appear to the 11 disciples after they had chosen Matthias. There is no scripture that supports that idea.

Incorrect. Acts 1 takes place after apostle Judas Iscariot's suicide and Jesus's ascension, the election of Judas's successor by the other eleven begins in Ac. 1:15, and ends with Matthias being chosen and added unto the eleven in verse 26, thus making twelve apostles again. Following the election of Matthias is this scene in the Book of Corinthians: "He (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve..." (1. Cor. 15:5).

I think it's possible that was Jesus bother and not one of the disciples.

Why do you think it's not possible that the apostle James in Gal. 1:19 was the same as either apostle James of Zebedee of the Twelve or James of Alphaeus of the Twelve, and Paul called him by their title "the Lord's brother" to distinguish him from the other? Especially since the apostles James and John of Zebedee of the Twelve were called by the title "the Sons of Thunder."