Were they Jesus's siblings?

[Rockerduck]

I already told you how I know it's the Truth.

You have never proven anything. 400 yrs of the bible. You seem set in your Eureka finding, However, the early 1s century believers did not believe what you say, and Mary was equally among them. All knew Jesus's family, His half brothers and sisters. You dispute the early Christians with your logic.

 

[Sigma]

You have never proven anything.

I have spoken and proven the Truth on this matter. Let him that hears, hear, and him that disobeys, disobey.

However, the early 1s century believers did not believe what you say, and Mary was equally among them. All knew Jesus's family, His half brothers and sisters. You dispute the early Christians with your logic.

Incorrect. Most early Christians (Catholics) knew the truth I speak, and those who spoke otherwise were written letters that confronted their heresy, and were called "Antidicomarianites" meaning "those who oppose Mary".

 

[Rockerduck]

I have spoken and proven the Truth on this matter. Let him that hears, hear, and him that disobeys, disobey.



Incorrect. Most early Christians (Catholics) knew the truth I speak, and those who spoke otherwise were written letters that confronted their heresy, and were called "Antidicomarianites" meaning "those who oppose Mary".

There were no Catholics in the first century. Nobody worshipped Mary.

 

[Sigma]

There were no Catholics in the first century. Nobody worshipped Mary.

Catholics were the first Christians. We were there before any protestant denomination was created.

 

[Rockerduck]

Catholics were the first Christians. We were there before any protestant denomination was created.

You don't know region history. Nobody called anybody Catholic. It was "the way", then later Christians. 20 years later the Gospel of Mark was written. All they did was read and have speakers at the house churches under persecution from Nero.

 

[Sigma]

There were no Catholics in the first century. Nobody worshipped Mary.

Catholics were the first Christians. We can be traced all the way back to Jesus. No protestant group can. That's just a fact and we've never worshiped the Blessed Virgin Mary. A group called the Collyridians did worship Her and we Catholics consider Collyridianism heretical. St. Epiphanius even wrote a letter to them confronting their heresy.

 

[Rockerduck]

The Collyridians worshipped Mary as a Goddess. Not Jesus Christ our Savior.

 

[Rockerduck]

Catholics were the first Christians. We can be traced all the way back to Jesus. No protestant group can. That's just a fact and we've never worshiped the Blessed Virgin Mary. A group called the Collyridians did worship Her and we Catholics consider Collyridianism heretical. St. Epiphanius even wrote a letter to them confronting their heresy.

You keep bring up the Catholic church. Yes the first Christians referred to and they now do say the universal church which is the body of Christ. That is the only group going to heaven.

 

[Sigma]

You keep bring up the Catholic church. Yes the first Christians referred to and they now do say the universal church which is the body of Christ. That is the only group going to heaven.

The Catholic Church is the Christian Church Jesus founded, then people left the fold and started their own Christian groups known as protestant groups, which goes against what Jesus wanted, which is one flock one fold. Does one not being a Catholic mean they're certainly going to Hell? No, but that doesn't mean they should stay away from His Church either. He started the one Church for a reason.

 

[Sigma]

The Collyridians worshipped Mary as a Goddess. Not Jesus Christ our Savior.

Right. The point was, Catholics don't worship the Blessed Virgin Mary and I gave an example of a group, the Collyridians, that actually did, and we Catholics consider it heresy as proof we don't worship Her.

 

[Rockerduck]

The Catholic Church is the Christian Church Jesus founded, then people left the fold and started their own Christian groups known as protestant groups, which goes against what Jesus wanted, which is one flock one fold. Does one not being a Catholic mean they're certainly going to Hell? No, but that doesn't mean they should stay away from His Church. He started the one Church for a reason.

I belong to the Body of Christ and the human body of a Born Again from above, child of God, is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. This Body of Christ does not belong to any building or denomination, but of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Sigma]

I belong to the Body of Christ and the human body of a Born Again from above, child of God, is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Which one? Because there's people who left Jesus's Church and made their own.

 

[Rockerduck]

Which one? Because there's people who left Jesus's Church and made their own.

There is only one body of believers since Pentecost. All Born Again from above believers, belong to the body of Christ.

Romans 12:4-5 - For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 -
And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually

 

[Sigma]

There is only one body of believers since Pentecost. All Born Again from above believers, belong to the body of Christ.

Romans 12:4-5 - For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 -
And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually

They are talking about the Christian members of the Church Jesus founded. Jesus chose Peter to be the first Head of His Church, and there's been a successor ever since up to the current one, Pope Francis. If you are part of protestant group, that is not the Christian Church Jesus founded. No protestant group was founded by Jesus over 2,000 years ago. So, your interpretation of those verses is wrong.

 

[Rockerduck]

They are talking about the Christian members of the Church Jesus founded. Jesus chose Peter to be the first Head of His Church, and there's been a successor ever since up to the current one, Pope Francis. If you are part of protestant group, that is not the Christian Church Jesus founded. No protestant group was founded by Jesus over 2,000 years ago. So, your interpretation of those verses is wrong.

Nope. the Body of Christ is today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. There in no building, no pope, no priests, nothing. Only those who belong to Christ.

 

[Sigma]

Nope. the Body of Christ is today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. There in no building, no pope, no priests, nothing. Only those who belong to Christ.

What do you think Jesus was training the apostles for three years to be? His first priests and leaders in His Church that He spoke about. That's why Jesus's Church, the Catholic Church, still has priests and leaders to this day, over 2,000 years later, they are their successors. Your protestant group was created only hundreds of years ago.

 

[Rockerduck]

Lol, what do you think Jesus was training the apostles for three years to be? His first priests and leaders in His Church that He spoke about. That's why Jesus's Church, the Catholic Church, still has priests and leaders to this day, over 2,000 years later, they are their successors. Your protestant group was created only hundreds of years ago.

Well there had to be leaders to train leaders and others in doctrine and worship. But the true church is the Body of Christ out of which there is no buildings. Individuals make up the Body. That's what Jesus is talking about here;

John 17:9-10 - “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

Jesus only prays for His chosen people, not the world. Now Jesus prays for those who will, in the future be in Him, through the Apostles word here;

John 20:20-22 - I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

To be one in Christ is the Body of believers who make up the Body of Christ. I hope I'm being clear. But lets agree to disagree and be friends.

 

[Sigma]

Well there had to be leaders to train leaders and others in doctrine and worship.

Right! The twelve apostles were Jesus's first priests and leaders to carry on His doctrine in word and in deed. Jesus chose Peter to be the first Head of His Church: "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matt. 16:18)

And the first disciples of Jesus became the first Christians of that Church. The Catholic Church, which isn't a building, but rather made up of individuals, some of whom are leaders who have succeeded the apostles in leadership and teaching Jesus's doctrine.

Jesus didn't say, "Let sheep join/stay in other folds and eat from different pastures", but rather said, "And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. (Jn. 10:16)

That one shepherd was first Jesus, then His successor Peter, and since then we've continued to have successors, up to the current one: Pope Francis, but never forgetting that Jesus is the Shepherd. Jesus wants ALL people united together in the one fold that is His Catholic Church, under one Truth, as brothers and sisters who want to follow God's commandments with the help and guidance of His apostle's successors.

I understand there's people in Jesus's Church who have done bad things, even Jesus's own apostles, the future leaders of His Church did bad things to Him. His Church is made up of sinners, but just as He brought the apostles to perfection in their spirituality to properly lead, He can do the same to us. satan attacks the Catholic Church the most because it's Jesus's Church, that's why you see such grave sins committed within in, but like Jesus said, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

We need to pray for the leaders because they're always being attacked and when they fail to resist evil temptation the whole world sees, and it causes souls to hate the Church and leave or stay away, which is what satan wants. We need to remember that no matter how grave one's sin, if there's true repentance there's God's forgiveness. So, rather than hate the people within the Catholic Church who grieve you, pray that they feel sincere repentance, and are given the courage and strength to ask for forgiveness. Just as God still loves us despite our sins, we too must continue to love the sinners within His Church, and be united as one fold: the Christians (Catholics), not multiple folds such as Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.

But lets agree to disagree and be friends.

I've never considered you an enemy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've shown that the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "ἀδελφή" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) have been used in the OT and NT to refer to kinsmen, which is why the definitions "kinsman" or "kinswoman" are included in Mounce's and Liddell-Scott-Jones's Greek dictionaries, and thus any Greek dictionaries that don't include them are incomplete.

In the opening post, the scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources collectively show "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3; James the brother of the Lord; James the bishop of Jerusalem; James the Less; James the Just; and the author of the Epistle of James, were the same person as Apostle James of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), the son of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and thus he and his siblings Simon, Joseph, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the cousins of Jesus.

The Truth has been shown to you. Let him that hears, hear, and him that disobeys, disobey.

Well we have beateen this dead horse to further death.

We agree to disagree and heaven will show.

But the fact that you now admit Mary had sex with Joseph after Jesus was born and thus fully capable of children is a great movement on your part. the rest, time will show

 

[Sigma]

But the fact that you now admit Mary had sex with Joseph after Jesus was born and thus fully capable of children is a great movement on your part.

I never admitted that because it's not true. I said I've shown that the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "ἀδελφή" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) have been used in the OT and NT to refer to kinsmen, which is why the definitions "kinsman" or "kinswoman" are included in Mounce's and Liddell-Scott-Jones's Greek dictionaries, and thus any Greek dictionaries that don't include them are incomplete.

In the opening post, the scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources collectively show "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3; James the brother of the Lord; James the bishop of Jerusalem; James the Less; James the Just; and the author of the Epistle of James, were the same person as Apostle James of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), the son of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and thus he and his siblings Simon, Joseph, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the cousins of Jesus.