What about Hell ?

[bbyrd009]

i guess Tartarus (another Greek god, hmm) is as close as we get to "hell" in the Bible, the rest are in Erets

 

[evotell]

Hell Bound is a great documentary video and can be found on You Tube.

Sorry Hell doesn't exist.

 

[Dcopymope]

Hell Bound is a great documentary video and can be found on You Tube.

Sorry Hell doesn't exist.

.....It does according to your savior, plainly revealed to John in Revelation. If someones 'documentary' is contradicting the word made flesh, then they can take that documentary and shove it, pure and simple.

 

[evotell]

Before I walked away from being a fundamentalist I would have had held the same position as you.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Taken]

Hell Bound is a great documentary video and can be found on You Tube.

Sorry Hell doesn't exist.

Why not?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Why not?

God Bless,
Taken

ha well it exists--as a bad translation
but ya just can't trace it back past the bad translations, see. Gehenna is on earth, Hades has no punishment mythology attached to it, and Tartarus is for devils. Punishment of souls in the "afterlife" is not Scriptural.

Fwiw imo the fact that someone can "be in hell" while not being "punished" should still be reflected upon though.

 

[Taken]

ha well it exists--as a bad translation

We get 2,000 + year old understanding per the limits of what men understood and expressed in their own language.

Some recognized a "sort" of "waiting" place;
Which Hell was; at one time "for ALL souls", the saved and unsaved.
We get the understanding from a mans understanding for 4,000 years via the limit of their knowledge. True, but limited.
That Changed when Jesus' soul went to hell, and LEFT.

Hell is still a waiting place for "UN-saved" souls; and souls departed (from their physically dead body); that are saved, depart their dead bodies and go to heaven.

Also Jews spoke of Gehenna. Which is to say, Hinnon, which was a valley outside of Jerusalem, where powerful men burned alive children, and the stench and cries and fire was well observed; The Jews likened that to what HELL would be like (if they could see Hell).

We can trust to believe Hell exists, inasmuch as we can trust to believe Heaven exists, inasmuch as we can trust to believe, a man exists with a body, soul, spirit.

Bodies are from the earth and return to the earth.
Souls are from God, and once all went to hell, (until Jesus), and now only the unsaved souls go to hell, to wait Judgement, and saved souls go back to God in Heaven.
Spirit of men are natural (from a mans seed),
If not born again, it dies and rots in the earth with it's dead body.
If born again, from Gods Seed, it departs a dead body, and returns to God.
In heaven, saved souls, born again spirits, Wait for the day their body is raised and glorified.

While men, both saved and unsaved WERE in Hell; they were separated by a great FIXED gulf (water).

Hell, is a waiting place for unsaved souls.
Hell, is also a distruction place for unforgiven body's and unsaved souls.
Hell, is also a permanent estate for celestial spirits that became corrupt.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Why not?

God Bless,
Taken

Because all the words men talk about as "hell" eternal torment etc etc..is a load of old garbage. As I already posted in the Thread- "And God did not say"...
Have you ever checked it ALL out for yourself? Or like the majority, just learned to parrot it from man and your teachers?

If you really checked it out...you wouldn't ask the question.

If eating from the Tree was going to send Adam and Eve "to hell" God would have told them...He did not. He said- " In dying you will die.."
Hell, as taught, is just another man made doctrine.

Do some study, do some praying, and do some "waiting before God" and hear what He has to say about it.

And please don't do the "give me a scripture" , so we can do the- "who can out scripture who.." I no longer play that silly game.
NOT that I am trying to convince you...everyone is quite able to study the Greek and Hebrew for themselves...but , they would much prefer "the traditions of men"...far less work to have to do.

.........H

 

[Helen]

We get 2,000 + year old understanding per the limits of what men understood and expressed in their own language.

Some recognized a "sort" of "waiting" place;
Which Hell was; at one time "for ALL souls", the saved and unsaved.
We get the understanding from a mans understanding for 4,000 years via the limit of their knowledge. True, but limited.
That Changed when Jesus' soul went to hell, and LEFT.

Hell is still a waiting place for "UN-saved" souls; and souls departed (from their physically dead body); that are saved, depart their dead bodies and go to heaven.

Also Jews spoke of Gehenna. Which is to say, Hinnon, which was a valley outside of Jerusalem, where powerful men burned alive children, and the stench and cries and fire was well observed; The Jews likened that to what HELL would be like (if they could see Hell).

We can trust to believe Hell exists, inasmuch as we can trust to believe Heaven exists, inasmuch as we can trust to believe, a man exists with a body, soul, spirit.

Bodies are from the earth and return to the earth.
Souls are from God, and once all went to hell, (until Jesus), and now only the unsaved souls go to hell, to wait Judgement, and saved souls go back to God in Heaven.
Spirit of men are natural (from a mans seed),
If not born again, it dies and rots in the earth with it's dead body.
If born again, from Gods Seed, it departs a dead body, and returns to God.
In heaven, saved souls, born again spirits, Wait for the day their body is raised and glorified.

While men, both saved and unsaved WERE in Hell; they were separated by a great FIXED gulf (water).

Hell, is a waiting place for unsaved souls.
Hell, is also a distruction place for unforgiven body's and unsaved souls.
Hell, is also a permanent estate for celestial spirits that became corrupt.

God Bless,

Taken

Not so. It is a fear mongering message from the Devil to steal, and destroy Father God's image. It is the Devil's tool.

 

[Dcopymope]

There are some Christians who go under the term "Annihilationist" that believe hell exists but that its not an eternal punishment. Despite Jesus Christ plainly stating the fire will be unquenching and everlasting, this particular brand of believer will still twist the term "everlasting" using its Greek translation to somehow not mean 'forever', or 'eternal'. Even though the Lexicon plainly states that "forever" or "eternal" is exactly what was meant by the term "everlasting", they will still try and weasel their way around it.

(Matthew 25:41) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

But than when I play their little game and bring up other scriptures pertaining to the coming kingdom of God also stating it to be everlasting, it does not compute for them.

(Daniel 7:27-28) "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. {28} Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart."

You see, they can't have it both ways, if the kingdom of God is eternal, then so is the lake of fire punishment. You can't claim one is eternal while the other isn't just because it doesn't line up with your own personal beliefs. I understand the reason why they don't want to believe it lasts forever, because to them it makes God out to be sadistic. It really doesn't though, because if you are thrown into the fire, it means you truly earned it. The problem lies in the assumption of many Christians that all who don't believe in Jesus automatically gets tossed into the fire.

It never says anything of the kind however, its only those whose name isn't in the book of life that get thrown in. Who goes and who doesn't go will be entirely up to God, and it is revealed to John that the judgement will be based pretty much entirely on their works, not on their beliefs. The lake of fire is the second death, and this is after all the very thing that Jesus Christ saves you from. To claim the Lake of Fire isn't eternal or doesn't even exist makes no sense whatsoever, because then you have no legitimate reason to claim Jesus Christ to be your personal savior. What is he saving you from if its not the second death?

 

[evotell]

There are some Christians who go under the term "Annihilationist" that believe hell exists but that its not an eternal punishment. Despite Jesus Christ plainly stating the fire will be unquenching and everlasting, this particular brand of believer will still twist the term "everlasting" using its Greek translation to somehow not mean 'forever', or 'eternal'. Even though the Lexicon plainly states that "forever" or "eternal" is exactly what was meant by the term "everlasting", they will still try and weasel their way around it.



But than when I play their little game and bring up other scriptures pertaining to the coming kingdom of God also stating it to be everlasting, it does not compute for them.



You see, they can't have it both ways, if the kingdom of God is eternal, then so is the lake of fire punishment. You can't claim one is eternal while the other isn't just because it doesn't line up with your own personal beliefs. I understand the reason why they don't want to believe it lasts forever, because to them it makes God out to be sadistic. It really doesn't though, because if you are thrown into the fire, it means you truly earned it. The problem lies in the assumption of many Christians that all who don't believe in Jesus automatically gets tossed into the fire.

It never says anything of the kind however, its only those whose name isn't in the book of life that get thrown in. Who goes and who doesn't go will be entirely up to God, and it is revealed to John that the judgement will be based pretty much entirely on their works, not on their beliefs. The lake of fire is the second death, and this is after all the very thing that Jesus Christ saves you from. To claim the Lake of Fire isn't eternal or doesn't even exist makes no sense whatsoever, because then you have no legitimate reason to claim Jesus Christ to be your personal savior. What is he saving you from if its not the second death?

Can I encourage you to watch the You Tube Movie "Hell Bound" watch it with an open heart and mind and you may find like me that you'll take a re think.

 

[Taken]

Because all the words men talk about as "hell" eternal torment etc etc..is a load of old garbage. As I already posted in the Thread- "And God did not say"...
Have you ever checked it ALL out for yourself? Or like the majority, just learned to parrot it from man and your teachers?

I am well aware what "eternal torment" means.

It is not "garbage"; It is also not not the "understanding", when many man claim as their "understanding", (which is garbage).

Their Torment is eternal.
For the duration their soul remains with LIFE in it.....they SHALL KNOW they are FOREVER separated from God.
For the duration their soul remains with LIFE in it; IN HELL...they are also separated FROM
Gods "pleasant" things (that they DID enjoy while ON earth, but did not acknowledge were from God, nor were they thankful to God.)
When they SEE, the Son of man, our Lord, they shall KNOW, it is He, and He shall reject saving them.

And the GARBAGE IS; The lack of a mans understanding.
The GARBAGE IS; men whine and complain, it's so mean for God to burn them forever.
The GARBAGE IS: DUH...they are NOT forever ALIVE!
Men are simply VESSELS.
Men have LIFE In their VESSLES, which is LIFE From God.
Life departs out of the vessels, and returns to God.
THE Vessel is become VOID OF LIFE.
The RIDICULOUS GARBAGE IS: stupid men whining burning forever, will be oochie ouchie PAINFUL....
The Complete Ignorance IS; There IS NO LIFE IN THE vessel, to FEEL being burned!
It is a Vessel WITHOUT LIFE, that is burned!

If you really checked it out...you wouldn't ask the question.

The question was to YOU. Not for my benefit to Learn what Scripture means. But simply to hear WHAT is your understanding of Scripture.

You gave your point of view...it's garbage.
You didn't give your understanding of why.

If eating from the Tree was going to send Adam and Eve "to hell" God would have told them...He did not. He said- " In dying you will die.."

I do not agree.....
"IF" this...then "God would have".
That is presumptious or mindfully logical.
Scripture never teaches to presume or make logical mindful conclusions, for what God does not do.

Hell, as taught, is just another man made doctrine.

Hell, "as taught", in Scripture is Truth.
Agree, Hell "as taught" by a mans mindful conclusion is simply men trying to mindfully "figure" the different aspects of the purpose and reasoning HELL exists.

Do some study, do some praying, and do some "waiting before God" and hear what He has to say about it.

WHY are you saying this to me?
Did I indicate I do not study, or pray, or rely on God for His Understanding?

And please don't do the "give me a scripture" , so we can do the- "who can out scripture who.." I no longer play that silly game.

No problem.

NOT that I am trying to convince you...everyone is quite able to study the Greek and Hebrew for themselves...but , they would much prefer "the traditions of men"...far less work to have to do.

I am not trying to convince you of anything.

I simply asked you to see your understanding.

I prefer to exchange dialogue with people when our understanding is not divided.

If you find that a silly game, so be it.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Not so. It is a fear mongering message from the Devil to steal, and destroy Father God's image. It is the Devil's tool.

I wrote alot. You disagreed with ALL of it.

So, by your response, am I to presume you do not believe in Hell?
And to talk about Hell is soley intended to scare people?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[evotell]

I am well aware what "eternal torment" means.

It is not "garbage"; It is also not not the "understanding", when many man claim as their "understanding", (which is garbage).

Their Torment is eternal.
For the duration their soul remains with LIFE in it.....they SHALL KNOW they are FOREVER separated from God.
For the duration their soul remains with LIFE in it; IN HELL...they are also separated FROM
Gods "pleasant" things (that they DID enjoy while ON earth, but did not acknowledge were from God, nor were they thankful to God.)
When they SEE, the Son of man, our Lord, they shall KNOW, it is He, and He shall reject saving them.

And the GARBAGE IS; The lack of a mans understanding.
The GARBAGE IS; men whine and complain, it's so mean for God to burn them forever.
The GARBAGE IS: DUH...they are NOT forever ALIVE!
Men are simply VESSELS.
Men have LIFE In their VESSLES, which is LIFE From God.
Life departs out of the vessels, and returns to God.
THE Vessel is become VOID OF LIFE.
The RIDICULOUS GARBAGE IS: stupid men whining burning forever, will be oochie ouchie PAINFUL....
The Complete Ignorance IS; There IS NO LIFE IN THE vessel, to FEEL being burned!
It is a Vessel WITHOUT LIFE, that is burned!



The question was to YOU. Not for my benefit to Learn what Scripture means. But simply to hear WHAT is your understanding of Scripture.

You gave your point of view...it's garbage.
You didn't give your understanding of why.



I do not agree.....
"IF" this...then "God would have".
That is presumptious or mindfully logical.
Scripture never teaches to presume or make logical mindful conclusions, for what God does not do.



Hell, "as taught", in Scripture is Truth.
Agree, Hell "as taught" by a mans mindful conclusion is simply men trying to mindfully "figure" the different aspects of the purpose and reasoning HELL exists.



WHY are you saying this to me?
Did I indicate I do not study, or pray, or rely on God for His Understanding?



No problem.



I am not trying to convince you of anything.

I simply asked you to see your understanding.

I prefer to exchange dialogue with people when our understanding is not divided.

If you find that a silly game, so be it.

God Bless,
Taken

So you dont agree, that's fine, but why all the hostility and inflammatory language.

 

[Helen]

I wrote alot.

Yes, you always "write a lot".
I think maybe you believe that because you "write a lot" it somehow means that 'what' you write is always correct.

You also quote "a lot" of verses too. Believing that it somehow proves your point and gives it extra weight. ( as if we didn't all read our bibles, and some of us have read it through many times from the first word to the last, many times in our life) ..we too, know our bible verses.

So, by your response, am I to presume you do not believe in Hell?

You can presume what you like.
I believe in God, I don't "believe in" hell.

If Hell is , and the greatest part of humanity will go there, how can you ever quote ...'Love NEVER fails?’ You can't.
Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your belief and understanding of things. 98% go to your Hell!!

If as the scripture says "The wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then taking it "as said"...Jesus would have to be eternally punished in Hell ..because He took all our sin.

As I have said. Believe about God, what you like. It is obvious you have not prayed , meditated, searched, waited, fasted before God in anguish of heart over your glib belief of hellfire. You have made your choice to accept mainline teaching and doctrines of men. It's easier...takes no time or commitment or hearing from God Himself.

I believe that 'Our God is a consuming fire'....I believe the Fire will test all things.
When Christ came in the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, He came as cloven tongues of fire.
When the Hebrew lads were thrown into the fiery furnace the only thing that was burned were the ropes that bound them.
God is Love. God Is a consuming Fire. All God is is Good.

Every man will have to stand before God and answer for what he chose to believe. ( about God Himself )
You are free to believe what you want....as for me and my house....

 

[Taken]

Because all the words men talk about as "hell" eternal torment etc etc..is a load of old garbage. As I already posted in the Thread- "And God did not say"...
Have you ever checked it ALL out for yourself? Or like the majority, just learned to parrot it from man and your teachers?

If you really checked it out...you wouldn't ask the question.

If eating from the Tree was going to send Adam and Eve "to hell" God would have told them...He did not. He said- " In dying you will die.."
Hell, as taught, is just another man made doctrine.

Do some study, do some praying, and do some "waiting before God" and hear what He has to say about it.

And please don't do the "give me a scripture" , so we can do the- "who can out scripture who.." I no longer play that silly game.
NOT that I am trying to convince you...everyone is quite able to study the Greek and Hebrew for themselves...but , they would much prefer "the traditions of men"...far less work to have to do.

.........H

So you dont agree, that's fine, but why all the hostility and inflammatory language

What ALL hostility and inflammatory language? You forgot to identify what you are specifically claiming, thus I can not give you a reply to your charges, that only you know specifically what you mean.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yes, you always "write a lot".
I think maybe you believe that because you "write a lot" it somehow means that 'what' you write is always correct.

You can "think" as you choose. Of course I think what I believe and write is true.
Don't you?

And my style of writing does not require your approval.

You also quote "a lot" of verses too.

Yes, unashamedly so.

Believing that it somehow proves your point and gives it extra weight.

I have no requirement to PROVE anything.
However I will provide scriptures to verify what I believe and say.

( as if we didn't all read our bibles, and some of us have read it through many times from the first word to the last, many times in our life) ..we too, know our bible verses.

I do not PRESUME "all" read or have read the Bible. Surveys actually show the majority of those Claiming to BE Christians are Scripturally illiterate.

You can presume what you like.

Of course I can, just as you do.

I believe in God,

And? Is your memory short? I have claimed the exact same; that I believe in thee Lord God Almighty.
And? YOU, "proclaimed that I have a different god, then THEE God Himself.

Purpose of "YOUR CLAIM" ? Who knows, but you. Was it anything I claimed? No!

I don't "believe in" hell.

That's your belief. It is in opposition to Scriptural teaching. So, you claiming you have read ALL of the Bible; seems you skipped the parts referencing Hell.
Your choice, your consequence.

If Hell is , and the greatest part of humanity will go there,

So?

how can you ever quote ...'Love NEVER fails?’ You can't.

Sure I can. Watch; "Love Never fails".

Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your belief and understanding of things. 98% go to your Hell!!

That's not MY understanding. That's YOUR understanding.

If as the scripture says "The wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then taking it "as said"...Jesus would have to be eternally punished in Hell ..because He took all our sin.

You were talking about LOVE being a failure.
Now you are switching the premise to the punishment FOR SIN.

I absolutely disagree with you.
God IS LOVE. LOVE NEVER Fails.
God NEVER fails.
God IS LOVE.
God has given man freewill to Choose Him or
...Reject Him.
God IS Love.
God has PROVIDED a PLACE "FOR" souls that Choose Him and "FOR" souls that Reject Him.

Not a big secret;
Souls that Choose Him, are WITH HIM in His estate; called Heaven.
Souls that Reject Him, are WITHOUT HIM in the estate He provided; called Hell.

God IS Love;
He gave ALL naturally born men an estate;
Called Earth.
And He gives to ALL souls; a CHOICE of which estate they WANT TO exist, when their body dies, and their living soul departs their body.

God IS LOVE; God IS JUST;
All naturally born men existing in their estate, Earth, get to pick and choose the estate for their own Living soul.
God is JUST, that he gives to every man, that which the man chooses.

As I have said. Believe about God, what you like.

I believe what the Lord wants me to KNOW.
I trust to believe what the Lord gives me of His Wisdom and Understanding.

It is obvious you have not prayed , meditated, searched, waited, fasted before God in anguish of heart over your glib belief of hellfire.

That's a Comical testimony you have given.

You are the one REJECTING Scripture;
Hell being discussed over 50 times in Scripture.
Hell fire, specifically mentioned 3 times in Scripture, as a posibility to be CAST there, and it's danger.

And YOU are telling me BECAUSE I trust to Believe Scripture, it is OBVIOUS I don't bother to know it, while you are testifying you are Rejecting Scripture?

Thanks for sharing your completely ODD BALL reasoning.

You have made your choice to accept mainline teaching and doctrines of men.

I made my choice to accept the Word of God, and never said otherwise.
And no, I did not ask you to make ANY claims for me.

But hey if "mainline" teaching IS God has prepared a PLACE called Hell, for men WHO reject God....whoo hoo. Good to know.

It's easier...takes no time or commitment or hearing from God Himself.

I would not know about Your comments on "mainline" teaching. That would be apparently your participation and expertise, since you brought it up.

I believe that 'Our God is a consuming fire'....I believe the Fire will test all things.
When Christ came in the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, He came as cloven tongues of fire.
When the Hebrew lads were thrown into the fiery furnace the only thing that was burned were the ropes that bound them.
God is Love. God Is a consuming Fire. All God is is Good.

Uh huh.
God IS a Consuming Fire.
God IS also a PURIFIRING Fire.

A man WHO HAS elected to BE WITH GOD...
..His BODY SHALL BE Baptized with the Lords Purifying Fire.

A man WHO HAS elected to BE WIHTOUT God..
...His BODY SHALL BE turned to ASH by the Lord CONSUMING FIRE.

It's all in Scripture, You should have learned.

Every man will have to stand before God and answer for what he chose to believe. ( about God Himself )

Who said otherwise? I didn't.
Of course ALL shall stand before the Lord and be accountable for their Actions; FOR or AGAINST God.

You will have to STAND and reveal WHY you rejected belief in His Word about Hell.

You are free to believe what you want....as for me and my house....

Of course. And I believe when someone doesn't agree with you, it's is really crappy for you then proclaim they believe in a different god, as you did toward me.

Whatever you believe, is on you, by your own declarations. I don't have to agree with you; but then neither do I have to PROCLAIM, you believe in a different god, don't pray, do what the mainstream does. And I'll thank you to NOT make claims for ME, that I did not make.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Good grief woman, you are so verbose!!!

 

[Dcopymope]

Can I encourage you to watch the You Tube Movie "Hell Bound" watch it with an open heart and mind and you may find like me that you'll take a re think.

I was in a live YouTube hangout once discussing the subject of hell at length with these "Annihilationists". I vaguely recall one of them bringing up a video they wanted me to watch that they claim proves their beliefs. I'm pretty sure it was "Hell Bound". But, after spending an hour or so going back and forth with these people, exposing their beliefs as false by playing their little word games, I was no longer interested. I couldn't take it seriously anymore after that. And I'm still waiting on the "Annihilationists" here to explain what it is that Jesus Christ is saving you from if its not the Lake of Fire judgement. I guess I shouldn't expect an answer at this point, because its not computing for them.

 

[Helen]

I only know of one "Annihilationists" here on Site...I didn't know there were more.
I don't hold it myself. But if I didn't already believe in the greater grace of God and restitution of all things...I probably would.