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Talk about trying to take a quote out of context to respond to what you want.
Yeah, you can believe I had a feeling, but do you believe that I talk to the Lord about those feelings only to be told in words that the feeling was not from Him - Meaning to you hear Him in words, or just thinking the feeling you get are from Him without actually taking to Him about those feelings. That was the context.
We preach the Word of God - not the feelings we have and think they might be from God.
They could be the Lord trying to get our attention, but that is not what our belief is about. Preaching the Word of God means we are proclaiming that we can hear words from Him (Jesus Christ) whose name is called "The Word of God", because He speaks "words" to us via His Holy Spirit to our spirit! Yet it is also written that with their ears they scarcely hear. What does "sacarcely" hearing look like. Could it be that you might kind of pick up a feeling or an unction that the Lord might be talking to you?
And if your hearing with your spiritual ears, should you be teaching?
Heb 5:11,12 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
If we do not practice hearing the Lord via His Holy Spirit enough to pick up the words the Lord Jesus Christ has to say to us, but rather we are just picking up Jesus Christ (the Word of God) by some type of feeling or unction, then according to the Bible we are not qualified to teach. This is the case simply because Jesus Christ is the Teacher, so if we are going to teach someone else it means we have to hear "words" from Him in order to bring whatever teaching He wants us to bring to people who are not listening to Him enough to hear words from Him!
At some point everyone who knows Him will indeed hear Him well enough that the prophecy that all will be taught of God, can come to pass. but if a person cannot hear with their spiritual ears well enough to pick up words from the Word of God, then how can He even teach them Himself. To get His words across then He must use someone who does hear Him in words!! That is what preaching (not teaching) the Word of God is all about - that we should be hearing our Lord Jesus Christ in words - not just some feeling!!
They could be the Lord trying to get our attention, but that is not what our belief is about. Preaching the Word of God means we are proclaiming that we can hear words from Him (Jesus Christ) whose name is called "The Word of God", because He speaks "words" to us via His Holy Spirit to our spirit! Yet it is also written that with their ears they scarcely hear. What does "sacarcely" hearing look like. Could it be that you might kind of pick up a feeling or an unction that the Lord might be talking to you?
And if your hearing with your spiritual ears, should you be teaching?
Heb 5:11,12 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
If we do not practice hearing the Lord via His Holy Spirit enough to pick up the words the Lord Jesus Christ has to say to us, but rather we are just picking up Jesus Christ (the Word of God) by some type of feeling or unction, then according to the Bible we are not qualified to teach. This is the case simply because Jesus Christ is the Teacher, so if we are going to teach someone else it means we have to hear "words" from Him in order to bring whatever teaching He wants us to bring to people who are not listening to Him enough to hear words from Him!
At some point everyone who knows Him will indeed hear Him well enough that the prophecy that all will be taught of God, can come to pass. but if a person cannot hear with their spiritual ears well enough to pick up words from the Word of God, then how can He even teach them Himself. To get His words across then He must use someone who does hear Him in words!! That is what preaching (not teaching) the Word of God is all about - that we should be hearing our Lord Jesus Christ in words - not just some feeling!!
Karl let me quote you so that you are able to see what you said........and this way, you'll realize that im not taking you out of context.
You wrote......"""He is not interested in saving what we have done for Him - those best efforts for Him!! That is not even biblical,"""""
Now let me bring you up to speed, as that is what a "teacher" is supposed to do for you.
Your works are being "saved". Those that you have done for God and Christ.
These works.... will be judged when you die and meet Jesus at the "Bema" seat.
You will find that this is awaiting you....>"what have you done in MY BODY".
See that?
That "BODY" is the "body of Christ"......and what you do as a part of Christ's Body, will be judged at the 'Bema" seat.
How?
Jesus will look at the MOTIVE.....for those works.......the intent of your heart........as the true reason you did them.
That is your entire record of deeds, after you are saved, that you did for Jesus and the Father.
Karl, i have not really yet pursued you, theologically, to find out if you born again, or just water baptized....thinking you are saved.
So, if you are truly born again, you'll know the difference, and in that case you will meet Jesus and this is the "bema" seat.
Have you not read about His forgiveness and His not remembering? Perhaps you read something in your study of the Bible about already passing through judgement? Of maybe this all got missed during your study? Maybe we just forgot that part about how our best works are like filthy rags, but I had explained that, so how did it get missed.
His is not judging "HIS BODY"! Not like that! After all, it is His body. Indeed, perhaps you missed the fact that He said He did not judge anyone, but as He heard He judges? He judges those that are not part of His body!!!! And what did He say, about who He heard from to judge.
Let me help you with a few Scriptures, but really it is the Lord, OUR TEACHER, who you need to talk to about these scriptures.
Is 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Don't you understand? Even our best attempts at being "righteous" is not worth remembering to the Lord. And if you consider all you do as a whole, well that is takes us away from the Lord. We are as an unclean thing!! Jesus when talking to men said, "if you being evil..." That is what we are, but He still loves us so what is to do with us, or for us?
The answer is that He forgives us and forgets those things we do, even "our righteousnesses" because they too are just filthy to Him. Oh, He does appreciate our efforts for Him, but we are like kids playing in the dirt and mud. So even if you play in the sand and make a sand castle for Him, it is going to be washed away!
Heb 8:12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”
What keeps happening is that we keep thinking that we are good, when only God is good. We think that we can be righteous by our works, when our righteousness is filthy. So we might ask ourselves, 'but what if I listen to the Lord and do what He tells me to do', won't that be right?
It is right to seek the voice of the Lord and do what He tells you to, but you are still not the "Word of God", so every little word spoken is spoken at the right time, with the right effect, or is even the exact right word. What you do is your best 'righteousness'. So what the Lord has done is what He did with Abram. He counts us as being right just because we heard from Him! So it is not that we are 'righteous' in the deeds we do but rather that He reckons it to as righteousness. He does that because of His great love for us.
Gen 15: 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Do you not notice that it is not any 'works' or efforts on Abram's part that were "reckoned "as "righteousness", but rather just Abram's belief!! That does not mean you are not going to do works for the Lord, because if a person listens to anyone who is truly their lord they do something for that person otherwise that person is not truly their lord. So, if truly Jesus Christ is your Lord, and not just a religious name you apply to someone you think died or is far off in heaven, then you are going to be getting instructions from Him, and you will be making some attempt, no matter how poorly that attempt is, to do what "your Lord", tells you to do. Still, those best attempts of yours are like filthy rags to Him!
That is ok, because He counts your belief, not works, as being righteous!
As for the works? Well if you listen to Him you will find that He is truly appreciative, but since He also reproves those He loves, those great works you did for Him are going to wind up being teaching moments for Him to improve you!! You Teacher, if He is, does not need to remember all the things you did wrong, when you put in your best righteous efforts for Him, He just needs to go over them to help you get a little better.
My friends - It is not your great works you do for Him, but you personally that He is interested in!!!
He, your Teacher, has you do things to teach you things!!! Why do you think He is the Teacher??
He gives what you might call '\homework assignments' and those to help improve you!! They might go in a file somewhere over the horizon, so they are not seen, but I suppose could be obtain if really needed. Still, because of your belief in Him as shown by your hearing from Him with faith (which is what Abram did) you are reckon as already being righteous. Not your works, but you personally are reckon as being righteous, simply because of your faith. Stop thinking that you works are what make you righteous. They might prove you do believe, but those works are still like filthy rags by Him who has to cleanse those filthy rags (our best righteousnesses)
Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
He cleans up after us filthy kids, and our best efforts at being righteous. But that is not judgement. Kids in the house are loved, not sentenced because of a crime!
Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life
The believer, who is a person who hears His words to them personally, has (as in it already happend) passed out of death into life and "does not come into judgment"!! We read that in our study of the Bible, right?
Redundant question, Karl.
Just read my 200 Threads., or all my Posts.
I always Give Christ Alone and God the Father ALL CREDIT DO THEM for Saving us and keeping us saved, by the blood and death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ.....as this is "The GIFT of Salvation".
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Good ... could drop some of the christianese, and could use some editing...but it's good.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
WOW - HOW WE CAN STILL MISS THE OBVIOUS!
I tell someone to listen to the Lord Jesus Christ, and they tell me to read their 200 posts. And they still don't understand!
You are not giving Jesus Christ His due if you are not pointing people to Him, but rather yourself!
You are presenting Him as if He was dead or in some far-off place called heaven, and yourself as the mediator between men and God.
People, we are to point others to Jesus Christ because He is the living active Word of God who you can hear from yourself. He is the mediator between men and God, and He is God. And you can get to know Him personally!!
Lots of semantic issues here.
Trying to sound smart, is not the answer...Scott.
Try LISTENING with that bible you don't feel you need..........open.
The reason i have so much material shared here, as Thread's and Post's is because i do listen to the Lord.
See all that? That's "fruit".
You are on my "fruit".. Karl.
Go ahead and write something else on It.
Take your time.
And i have 200 more of these "fruit".....and you can go and write on them as well.
Take your time.
Lots of semantic issues here.
Sometimes things are just a question of semantics - and we don't want to argue of those!!
Yet our relationship with Jesus Christ shows up in what we say and do.
So if I write, "What is Jesus Christ?" - is that a question of semantics or something that shows how my relationship with Jesus Christ is?
I write fast and off the cuff, and I had a college English professor who pointed out that I was a bit dyslectic. I often miss spell a word and not notice it. So perhaps I might write 'what', when I meant to write 'who'. Still, I could not intentionally ever call my Lord a 'what'. We talk a number of times every day, so He is certainly not ever a 'what' but is always a 'who', to me.
Also, because we (The Lord Jesus Christ and I) talk every day and He is called "Teacher", He is most often teaching me something - I can not go around thinking that I am supposed to be the teacher, meaning I am supposed to be making disciples for myself. Yet, I cannot possibly remember all the times I have seen Christian saying that we are supposed to make for ourselves disciples and students, so we can tell them about Jesus Christ!
The Lord once told me, "Karl, people want to tell others all about me instead of about me."
Yeah - we want to write the book telling others all about Jesus Christ, but why are we not just pointing people to the living and active Word of God (Jesus Christ) so He can show them about Him. Do we think we can do a better job of telling others about Him than He can????
Look - I can tell people lots of things He tells me, and He does say what is whispered in your ear shout on the house tops, so I often do just tell people what he told me - like the example above - yet I cannot possibly tell you all about Him like He can!!! So the best I can do is point people to Him, and tell them to listen to Him!! I might give and example, to encourage them to seek Him, but how much pride do you have to have to think others need to listen to me as opposed to Him, when seeking information about Him. HE IS NOT DEAD!!
That is not a question of semantics!! If you are talking to Him, even as little as I do (which is about a dozen times a day) then you can't think of Him as a 'what'! If you talk to Him as you should, you can't go around thinking people should read your 200 posts, or your book, about Him! Talking to Him like we should means we are pointing people to Him. That might mean writing a book or making 200 posts, but the purpose behind those would be to get people to seek Him. So perhaps you have a testimony about Him, or perhaps you have a teaching He gave you that you present to encourage others to seek Him. You might, and should also just want to talk about Him, and even about the great things He does and shows you, but that is called fellowship, not us being the other persons teacher!!
Have we not even listened to the ministering angels that He sends to minister to us? Maybe this is getting into too much "meat" for some, but we should, at some point, to have come to know that even that angels in heaven are pointing you to Jesus Christ, even to the point of where they are very cautious to make sure that He gets the credit even when they bring a message from Him. Those angels might give you a story, but they almost always tell you they got the story from Him, or He want them to give it to you. So they are always praising Him, saying that He is Lord, that He sent them, that He asked them to do something. I am not nearly as careful to point that out as they are. Yet go back to my last 200 posts and you will often find me specifically giving Him credit for sending me, asking me to post, or giving me something that I am passing on. Just like the example in this post above:
The Lord once told me, "Karl, people want to tell others all about me instead of about me."
"The Lord once told me..." Is giving Him the credit, and it is not a lie. That is like how that angels in heaven then to put it - thought they are more like 'The Lord told me to ...'.
Yet how often do you read that type of statement on this forum?? I hard have ever seen that, and that is not just semantics!! And you can tell things about the other persons relationship with the Lord by reading what they write.
Have we never read in the Bible anything like "The word of the Lord came to me saying..." That is a writer giving credit to the Lord of heaven and earth! Of course if we are talking about semantics, they could have just written, 'The Lord was telling me...." - but I don't find that written much either!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
And you...try not criticizing those who are for you, and not making accusations that are untrue. You have no idea what my feelings are for God's word--but should.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Whether "semantics" or not, or something else, even this is semantics.
Either way, it's a problem that need not be.
If I describe Jesus with many books, you could write many more and repeat nothing I said. The point then is not at all that one is correct and not the other, but rather that Jesus is fully capable of being all in all--and is. Paul touched on this, saying that he was "all things to all people, that he might save some." How much more then is Jesus? Much more! But Christ has dealt with this issue of one saying this and another saying that, saying "he who is not against us is on our side." None of us owns any right to be exclusive in our telling of Jesus.
Both of you are correct--Jesus too is known by His fruit...those that you listed, and also those he listed.
Call it what you like, but I do not recommend one part speaking against another part. We are one body.
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If you thought I was against you writing Christian books, you did not read what I wrote well enough!!
I am for Christians authors!!
I am against people trying to make themselves Christ! But I am for people telling people about Christ, but not all about Christ!
The purpose of any Christian book needs to be to lead people to Jesus Christ!!
So, is that your purpose! You tell me. Are you trying to lead people to Him whose sheep hear His voice?? If so, please write!! That is what I explained! And the purpose is not semantics!
You are either interested in trying to lead people to Jesus Christ, whom you know and want them to know also, or your purpose is to show them how smart you are. I have not read any of your books, but the response might be telling.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Instead of "semantics" perhaps it would have been better of me to say "pet peeves." And my point was that such pet interests with in the one body of Christ, need not be looked at as a competition of which or who is right. It's counterproductive.
You do bring up some interesting points...and questions:
As for my purpose being to lead people to Christ-- Yes, of course. That, I would hope to do. In fact, if I could keep you two from clashing, I would...for the sake of Christ.
As for some making themselves Christ, there are false christs, indeed. However, we should not forget that the apostle Paul's ministry was to lead people to Christ, but also very clearly made himself a part, saying, "for me to live is Christ." Which, of course can be looked at for or against Christ--except that it was for Christ and taking nothing away from Him, as we are His body appointed to speak His words by the Holy Spirit, which were not bearable for a time. Which then begs the question: Can we now bear those other things Christ had to say, which were once unbearable...or are those things still too hard to bear? I recommend that we take every precaution, but do not be so offended as to stifle or grieve the Holy Spirit.
But this I do not say in defense, against either of you two, but for you.
Do we grieve the Holy Spirit if we do our best to do what He personally asks us to do?
Of course, to do what He personally asks us to do mean personally listening to Him!
Now Paul, of the people we read about in the Bible was known to get into shall we say, discussions with others. Paul's purpose was to get people to listen to Jesus Christ, was it not?
Maybe Jesus was more known for having these 'discussions' and was not His purpose also that those very religious people He normally had those 'discussions' with to seek the words of God, was it not?
Now is there really things new under the sun? This is a Christian forum, and what better place to be sent to try and get people, especially those call by God, like the Jews in Jesus's time, to actually seek the words God has to say to them personally.
Let's look forward to the time when these discussions are not needed! But the sun still comes up in the morning and there is something written about encouraging other to seek the Lord's voice "Today". Encouragement might be a gentile word, but there is also something about the rod.
So, while Paul wrote things like:
Gal 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
And then immediately followed it up with:
Gal 1: 6-8 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
And then preached the Word correct, not grieving the Holy Spirit with:
Gal 3: 1-5 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Do we suppose that Paul was grieving the Holy Spirit by having this type of "discussion" - even calling other Christians "foolish"? would some today, if they were back at that time, think Paul was grieving the Holy Spirit because he boldly wrote such things to try and get other "Christian" as the Galatians would have been considered if in this time, to go back to hearing with faith.
Don't get me wrong - I wish Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ - but that happens when we actually seek voice of the Lord coming through His Holy Spirit. That is the message.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
How then does this comment below that you made earlier come into what you said above:Do we grieve the Holy Spirit if we do our best to do what He personally asks us to do?
Of course, to do what He personally asks us to do mean personally listening to Him!
Now Paul, of the people we read about in the Bible was known to get into shall we say, discussions with others. Paul's purpose was to get people to listen to Jesus Christ, was it not?
Maybe Jesus was more known for having these 'discussions' and was not His purpose also that those very religious people He normally had those 'discussions' with to seek the words of God, was it not?
Now is there really things new under the sun? This is a Christian forum, and what better place to be sent to try and get people, especially those call by God, like the Jews in Jesus's time, to actually seek the words God has to say to them personally.
Let's look forward to the time when these discussions are not needed! But the sun still comes up in the morning and there is something written about encouraging other to seek the Lord's voice "Today". Encouragement might be a gentile word, but there is also something about the rod.
So, while Paul wrote things like:
Gal 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
And then immediately followed it up with:
Gal 1: 6-8 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
And then preached the Word correct, not grieving the Holy Spirit with:
Gal 3: 1-5 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Do we suppose that Paul was grieving the Holy Spirit by having this type of "discussion" - even calling other Christians "foolish"? would some today, if they were back at that time, think Paul was grieving the Holy Spirit because he boldly wrote such things to try and get other "Christian" as the Galatians would have been considered if in this time, to go back to hearing with faith?
Don't get me wrong - I wish Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ - but that happens when we actually seek voice of the Lord coming through His Holy Spirit. That is the message.
What is it that you mean by this statement, and "not all (about Christ)?"
And if this is the problem that you are here to address, what was it that was or was not "all", that went against your purpose?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
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