What and when is the rapture Part 2
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bbyrd009
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man, i sure hope you are allowing for the possibility that any rapture (from harpazo anyway) is wishful thinking m fox.
Bc it almost surely is ok. Notice how you speak as if you know? bad sign, that
And that is exactly what I am referring to. So here is the sequence of events:
1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. All the saints (the Bride) in Heaven
3. The Marriage of the Lamb
4. The Second Coming of Christ (at least 7 years after the Rapture)
5. The battle of Armageddon
6. The Millennium
7. The battle of Gog and Magog
8. The Great White Throne Judgment
9. The supernatural fiery cleansing of the earth and its atmosphere
10. The end of the present world and all heavenly bodies
11. The New Heavens and the New Earth
12. The New Jerusalem as the only heavenly body to give light to the earth.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
You are so mixed up.
The bride makes herself ready for glorification day. We have a body like his glorious body not our body of flesh. Wedding garments are given us when he comes to receive us.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Hi Jeff.
Reading over Enoch111's event countdown it seems pretty accurate overall. He is missing a rapture, but we appear to be reading the same book.
If you read both of the main post (if you haven’t) you will see what Paul states. Paul shows us that the rapture is for the changing of our bodies so that we can enter heaven as our splender needs to change before we enter.
The other purpose is to miss Gods judgement in the earth. We go through worldly tribulations and persecutions but not Gods judgement.
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But the fact is that Paul says that the rapture is at the last trumpet and Jesus repeatedly teaches us that the judgement and rewarding happens at His second coming.
The battle of Armageddon is in chapter 16 when when the beast destroys Babylon the great. Revelation 19 is different when Jesus judges the beast and the false prophet.
Notice that Armageddon is only mentioned in chapter 16 and it’s not mentioned in chapter 19.
No Pre-TB
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No Pre-TB
Well-Known Member
That would be nice if the Bible taught that. Let’s see what Paul said.
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom
He judges the dead at his “epiphanies” and His kingdom. If he judges in his kingdom, he is reigning. Coincidentally, Rev 11:18 shows just that. And if you follow Paul’s words, it leads to verse 8:
I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Did you see that? He is rewarded “at that day”, the day he just mentioned when his epiphany comes in his kingdom reign. That is when we are changed. 1 Cor 9 tells us the crown we run for is not a corruptible one but incorruptible:
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible
And his epiphany? It means: appearing, manifestation, glorious display. The same one Paul used to say it happens at his kingdom at the 7th Trumpet, the same is used at Titus 2:13 and 2 Thessalonians 2:8
BTW, if you have Christ come to rapture his saints and then come again 7 years later - you have 3 comings. That conflicts with scripture because he cannot leave heaven at all till all is restored! Per Acts 3:21 It’s impossible for him to leave heaven on your timeline. If you don’t understand why it’s our blessed hope, I’d council you to read Esther!
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The Light
Well-Known Member
So you believe that the seventh trumpet blown by an angel is the same thing as the trump of God or voice of God?
Revelation 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
I think you are confused. The seventh trumpet which is blown by an angel is not the same as the trump of God or voice of God.
No Pre-TB
Well-Known Member
Youre correct. The 7th Trumpet is not the voice of God. But it is a trumpet of God. Have you not read Revelation 8:2 ?
2And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven trumpets.
The trumpets were given to them. Angels circled the throne room per Rev 4, but these 7 stood in God’s presence marking 2 interesting things:
1. They were given trumpets from God
2. Luke 1:19
19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God;
And again in Jude 1:9 tells us Michael is an archangel. Also, in Daniel 10:13 it says, Michael, one of the chief princes (plural and another name for archangels). These are given the 7 trumpets of God. Only archangels stand in God’s presence. So when we do see the 7th Trumpet blown, it’s blown by an archangel, exactly as Paul said it would.
The Light
Well-Known Member
It's a good effort, I'll give you that, but the facts of Scripture tell the true story.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There's that trump of God again.
Rev 4
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
bbyrd009
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well, its pretty flowery language, and might lend itself to other interpretations?
No Pre-TB
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Well thank you. But with your interpretation, Rev 4 does describe the voice like a trumpet. It’s demonstrating the effect of what he hears at that time in symbolism. In 1 Thess, Paul is not speaking symbolically but literally. An archangel, a trumpet of God etc. The same as 1 Corinthians 15:52 and Matthew 24:31
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Unless you also see that as God’s voice and if you don’t, I cannot understand how one is and 1 is not.
As 1 commentator puts it, If the loud sound of the trumpet, when the law was given from mount Sinia, especially when it sounded long, and waxed continually louder and louder, was so dreadful to the Israelites, that they said to Moses, Let not the Lord speak to us lest we die; how terrible must the sound of this trumpet be, which calls all men to that final judgment that will determine their lot for ever!
He wasn’t speaking to them yet, and they already quaked with fear. Could it be just a voice as you put it? That is a possibility because I toss nothing aside until 100% proven false. I hope you’d do the same, but evidence does point to a trumpet as the Israelites were given when they encamped around Jericho. So, is God’s voice the last trumpet voice that sounds? Or is the last trumpet that sounds, the last trumpet in view of the trumpets that preceded it?
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I didn't say that all I said is that Paul shows that the rapture happens at the last trumpet.
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I believe the 7th trumpet to be the end of our world. I also believe that Babylon the great to be the great whore Jerusalem in the first century.
She falls after the 6th trumpet and the 7th seal and the 7th bowl
No Pre-TB
Well-Known Member
1. 7th Trumpet at the end of the world; Agree
2. Babylon to be Jerusalem in The 1st century? Honestly, I’ve never heard that.
What do you mean by the 6th trumpet = the 7th seal = the 7th bowl?
Really? Lots of things tie them together for example read revelation 18 and then Ezekiel 16 or Matthew 23:34-35 and then revelation 18:24
Another example
Revelation 18:20
“Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”
Matthew 23:37-38
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
Who is the only nation to kill both the prophets and the saints?
I didn’t say the trumpet equals them just that Babylon the greats destruction is after them.
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