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So, "I AM" = The [ Always Was, Is Now, And Always Will Be ] Eternally Existing One?
What are the main doctrinal differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream Christianity?
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David in NJ
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That is a Grand SLAM DUNK into HELL via deception via VOID of the HOLY SPIRIT.
RCC, JWs, LDS, and all the others that deny the Deity of the SON also deny the FATHER.
Have you never read "No one has seen the Father at any time except the Son who is in the Bosom of the Father."
Have you never read Genesis?
Have you never read the FULL Gospel?
Have you never read Revelation?
And i mean ALL OF IT and a CONTINUANCE = "Line upon line, here a little and there a little"
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My friend, you have truncated my quote and flipped the meaning! What I said was "there is just no way to conclude that Jesus declared “I WILL BE.” So his audience must have favored the “I AM” interpretation of Exodus 3:14."
I'd have to think about equating "I AM" with "The Eternally Existing One," but my initial reaction is positive.
Here is a slightly tongue-in-cheek version of Exodus 3:13-14:
But Moses said to God, ‘If I come to the Israelites and say to them, “The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,” and they ask me, “What is his name?” what shall I say to them?’
God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM – and just exactly Who that is is none of your business! You humans use proper names because there are many of you, and it’s how you distinguish yourselves one from another. But there is only one God – ME! So why on earth (or in heaven, for that matter) would I need a proper name?’
Moses replied, ‘Point taken. But I still have to tell them something.’
God replied, ‘Just say “I AM has sent me to you.” I’ll take it from there.’
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
EXCELLENT Post and 100% CORRECT
But Elohim(God) did not stop there!!!
ELOHIM continued to address Who THEY are = Exodus 3:14-16
Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.
This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
Seems as though you are assuming that whenever the plural form Elohim is found in the Torah, it must refer to more than one person/entity/being. But Exodus 7:1 proves that that cannot be true. (There is only one Moses!)
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Genesis & Exodus proves it is absolute TRUTH = thus the word ELOHIM and Abraham Isaac Jacob
You need to know who is speaking to Moses !!!
David in NJ
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The Gospel (which was preached thru Abraham, Isaac & Jacob) explain it for us = Matthew ch3
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
I asked you why Moses would be referred to as Elohim. Matthew chapter 3 surely does not answer that question.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
OK
Answer:
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Pharoah was in the position of 'god on earth' so the TRUE ELOHIM demonstrated His Power thru Moses by pitting Moses against Pharoah.
If anyone spoke to Pharoah as Moses did they would be put to death.
Only someone with authority could speak to Pharoah = in the manner which God sent Moses to speak to him.
Runningman
Active Member
That also proves the Holy Spirit is not a third person in the Godhead of the "trinity." If no one has seen the Father except the Son then the Holy Spirit hasn't seen the Father. If you would like, I will go an extra mile with you until you understand this.
Matthew 11
27All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
Well, I guess we're done here. "I have made thee a god (Elohim) to Pharaoh" uses a plural form of "God" to refer to a singular person, Moses. There is no way around that.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I give Jews little credit for following the instructions of their God faithfully during their long and sorry history, but I do credit them with knowing how to interpret their own language.
I am not swayed by the “overwhelming consensus” of accepting “I Am” over “I Will Be” because I base my conclusions on what the whole of scripture says, not what obscure and twisted misinterpretation and mistranslation offers to mainstream Christianity, which I do not subscribe to in any way.
I am not a trinitarian because I find no confession from either the Father or his “firstborn” son, that they are equal parts of one being. All reference to Jesus being “God” (capital “G”) are inferred, never directly stated. IMV, if there is no direct statement, then no doctrine can be presented as fact...only conjecture. Added to that is the fact that Jesus only taught what his Father told him to teach, never from his own originality, and he directed all worship to the Father, never to himself.
After his return to heaven, supposedly as part of the godhead, he still refers to the Father as “my God” (Rev 3:12)...so the evidence from scripture is clear to me....God cannot worship an equal part of himself in heaven.....he cannot be his own High Priest, nor can he be his own servant. (Acts 4:27)
Reading the story in John 10:31-36, we see that just calling himself “the son of God” was blasphemous enough for them to pin that charge on him....after all, they wanted an excuse to silence him...he was making them look foolish and holding them to account for their poor performance with regard to “the lost sheep” to whom Jesus was sent.
John 8:58, if it is read in context, is Jesus answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.
David in NJ
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
In your limited mind there is no way around that.
Elohim says different = Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"
Now go read Genesis, Exodus, Gospel of John and Revelation = as you do take notes
Happy New Year and seek the Mind of Christ and His Kingdom
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Our minds are limited but the Mind of Christ is not.
We can experience and know Elohim but only thru Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Never isolate Scripture from Itself = we must see the entire focus of who Elohim is which requires ALL of Scripture
ALL of Scripture begins with the WORD.
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Runningman
Active Member
Or the Holy Spirit isn't a person in the Godhead since the literal reading of the verse you quoted and I quoted allows for that interpretation. The "Holy Spirit" is sometimes a designation for God Himself, aka the Father or YHWH since God is Spirit and is also holy then He's Holy Spirit, not a seperate person.
Think of it like this. You have a spirit, I have a spirit, everyone has their own spirit. Our spirit is not a sperate person to ourselves then it's also the same for God. I hope that helps.
2 Corinthians 2
11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit makes decisions = Acts 16:6
The Holy Spirit has Personhood as He is an inseperable part of ELOHIM = Acts 5:1-4 , Matt 12:32 , John 16:12-15
Runningman
Active Member
As I said before, God is Holy and Spirit, but His Spirit isn't a separate person to Himself. There is nothing conclusive about Acts 16:6 that says the Holy Spirit made a decision or if they were prevented via the power of their Holy Spirit anointing.
You have not demonstrated the Holy Spirit is a separate person in the Godhead of your Trinity. That's my point here. I gave you good reasons why this isn't the case already.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
And there it is......the ultimate excuse for ignoring anything that might disagree with the indoctrination of Christendom’s teachings....
‘Only those with the holy spirit can understand the words that don’t exist in scripture to mean something they do not teach.’
And this is the ultimate irony....because that is exactly what you have done.
Even when shown from God’s word that your doctrines are in error, you continue to accept and promote them......it’s a special kind of ‘blindness’.....but suffered only by “unbelievers”. (2 Cor 4:3-4)
Can someone who claims to be a “believer” actually be an “unbeliever” in God’s eyes?
Fact is, the majority who claim to be “believers” will not make it through the coming judgment. (Matt 7:21-23)....why? Because they did not “love the truth” when they heard it....it never touched their heart in order to change their mind about what is acceptable truth to God. (2 Thess 2:9-12)
We are all free to believe as we choose, but those who have heard the truth and rejected it, will be in exactly the same position as those Jews who, in Jesus’ day, worshipped the same God, but chose to persecute and deride Christ and his disciples as though it was they who worshipped a different god...and taught an apostasy, and committed blasphemy....yet it was the Jewish leaders who had done just that over hundreds of years.
History is repeating right under your noses and yet you can’t see it....
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