What are we really dealing with here?

[brakelite]

2Thessalonians 2:4
‭Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.‭

Revelation 20:11
‭And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.‭

Numbers 7:89
‭And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that ‭was‭ upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spake unto him.‭

Ezekiel 1:5
‭Also out of the midst thereof ‭came‭ the likeness of four living creatures. And this ‭was‭ their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.‭

 

[Phoneman777]

We're dealing with the antithesis of what is "the mystery of Godliness" - that such forever inexplicable, unfathomable, incomprehensibly great divine love would compel the Creator to humble Himself and become as one of His creatures and give His life to save them.

What we're dealing with is the "the mystery of iniquity", where a selfish, pathetic, creature seeks to exalt himself above his Creator - and with whom does this disgusting aspiration originate? "I will ascend into heaven...I will be like the Most High." - Lucifer

 

[brakelite]

I am perplexed at how any Catholic can look at this without shame and embarrassment. Is this not the epitome of every essential meaning of the word 'Antichrist'? 'He who stands in the place of Christ'....'instead of Christ'. How can any Protestant look at this and not shake their head in astonishment at how far removed from the reformers they have come? The reformers looked at scenes and declarations such as this, and recognized fully the blasphemy and arrogance of this haughty power, and had this power dead to rights when they declared her the Antichrist of scripture. Today, Protestantism looks somewhere else, as if Rome has changed. No, it is Protestantism that has apostatized from the truth.
And when the beast comes knocking at the door seeking submission to her authority, Protestantism bows, and surrenders. Protestants today will accept the mark of the beast as readily as eating tomorrows breakfast because they do not know, nor do they any longer believe in the Bible.

 

[brakelite]

Martin Luther wrote:
...nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? For all these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the Papal tyranny. Martin Luther, 'First Principles' p196-197

In the book of Revelation, we are presented with a beast coming up out of the sea, which is symbolic of peoples, nations, and tongues. This beast has upon its head a name. Blasphemy. In the Bible, we are shown clearly what constitutes blasphemy.

Matt. 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Are there any true Protestants left willing to uphold truth without compromise and fear? Protestantism is not just about the negative connotation of protesting against something. The true Protestant upholds something. He is pro...for...the testimony. He is an upholder of the truth as it is found in Christ. He is one who continues the fight against error by proclaiming the true gospel, that gospel once delivered to the saints, perverted by the Roman apostasy, brought back to life by the Reformation, and continued to be taught by "those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17
Who are these traitors against the truth who are now trampling upon the blood of the reformers and signing lying fraudulent documents that proclaim the protest over? To all who read this...do not join in the current fanaticism that is seeking unity with Antichrist...and if you are a part of that counterfeit system, God says to you, "come out of her that ye be not a partaker of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues". Revelation 18:4

 

[twinc]

here as elsewhere great attempts at great lengths are made to mislead and draw attention away from the real beast/s - imho divinity took on humanity so that humanity could take on divinity but this is broadly refused - so let us ask how this would be possible - we are told exactly how in scriptures man is a beast or the beast until he takes on or puts on divinity/Christ[Jn 6:50] and the mark of the beast/s is marked out at Jn 666 imho - twinc

 

[Phoneman777]

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is, no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not Popery in the Church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this Church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description.’ - Charles Spurgeon

 

[aspen]

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is, no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not Popery in the Church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this Church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description.’ - Charles Spurgeon

How about total depravity? Mr. Spurgeon?

 

[pia]

It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist

Wouldn't that be praying against what God has already spoken will happen ? I believe we are to pray in unity " Come , Lord Jesus Come ! "

 

[brakelite]

How about total depravity? Mr. Spurgeon?

None of the reformers had everything correct. It took 1200 years for the papal church to sink to the level of apostasy that Luther railed against, we can't expect a reformation to undo all the damage in just 3 or 400 years. Such a task the holy Spirit is still working on.

 

[Phoneman777]

Wouldn't that be praying against what God has already spoken will happen ? I believe we are to pray in unity " Come , Lord Jesus Come ! "

Praying for the coming of Jesus is by its very nature against Antichrist - the Man of Sin will be destroyed "with the brightness of His coming", right?

 

[Phoneman777]

How about total depravity? Mr. Spurgeon?

Yes, just imagine how Biblically literate Spurgeon and the rest of us would be if the Papacy hadn't so early on outlawed individual possession of the Bible, outlawed all translations except in a language understood only by papal authorities, chained it to the pulpits, and threatened death to anyone who would dare "reason together" (Isaiah 1:18-20 KJV) with God, instead of blindly accepting whatever the Pope decided was "truth"?

 

[twinc]

Yes, just imagine how Biblically literate Spurgeon and the rest of us would be if the Papacy hadn't so early on outlawed individual possession of the Bible, outlawed all translations except in a language understood only by papal authorities, chained it to the pulpits, and threatened death to anyone who would dare "reason together" (Isaiah 1:18-20 KJV) with God, instead of blindly accepting whatever the Pope decided was "truth"?

it is troubling it seems you wish to antagonize by blindly accepting and urging others to do so that the Pope decides what "truth" is when in fact it is the Holy Spirit- so like others you deliberately quench the Spirit imho
- twinc

 

[Helen]

Wouldn't that be praying against what God has already spoken will happen ? I believe we are to pray in unity " Come , Lord Jesus Come ! "

Agree, how can we pray against prophesy...that is stupid.
That is like praying against the tide, or against winter or the seasons.
It is God's time and season.

 

[aspen]

Yes, just imagine how Biblically literate Spurgeon and the rest of us would be if the Papacy hadn't so early on outlawed individual possession of the Bible, outlawed all translations except in a language understood only by papal authorities, chained it to the pulpits, and threatened death to anyone who would dare "reason together" (Isaiah 1:18-20 KJV) with God, instead of blindly accepting whatever the Pope decided was "truth"?

Well, at least you have someone to blame for all the shortcomings of Protestantism!

 

[APAK]

The ‘man of lawlessness’ is most probably more than just a typical antichrist as defines by scripture. There are many antichrists according to the Bible. We should be careful when we casually interchange the two terms as being the same. Yes, this man is an enemy of God, indeed.

(2Th 2:3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
(2Th 2:4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (ALL ESV)

This ‘man of lawlessness’ seems to be more than just opposing Christ as an antichrist. He will or has already replaced Christ as the savior in people’s hearts, in the temple of God. He will become or has already become their idol of worship.

He may be also living in a physical temple where he already sits as the world’s collective idol of worship to professing ‘Christians.’

Many antichrists can then be called followers of this ‘man of lawlessness.’

The term antichrist is a spirit that is addressed 4 times in scripture and only in John’s writings. It is attached to more than one being, not just one.

These are the spirits or beings that don’t believe in Jesus and present a false account of him and his teachings. They are the enemies of the real Jesus, the Christ. They are already in the world. We don’t have to wait for them or ‘him.’

These spirits say Jesus is not the Messiah, did not exist, is not the son of God, did not have a Father, and was not born as a human son or a son of man.

(1Jn 2:18) Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

(1Jn 2:22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

(1Jn 4:3) and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

(2Jn 1:7) For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. (ALL ESV)

APAK

 

[Phoneman777]

it is troubling it seems you wish to antagonize by blindly accepting and urging others to do so that the Pope decides what "truth" is when in fact it is the Holy Spirit- so like others you deliberately quench the Spirit imho
- twinc

There's nothing blind about my beliefs. It is well known that there is no salvation for anyone who refuses to acknowledge the supremacy of the Papal See. If the Pope wakes up and declares "you here get an indulgence...and you there get an indulgence...EVERYBODY gets and indulgence!!!" Catholics everywhere fall all over themselves in breathless gratitude to him.

 

[Phoneman777]

The ‘man of lawlessness’ is most probably more than just a typical antichrist as defines by scripture. There are many antichrists according to the Bible. We should be careful when we casually interchange the two terms as being the same. Yes, this man is an enemy of God, indeed.

(2Th 2:3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
(2Th 2:4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (ALL ESV)

This ‘man of lawlessness’ seems to be more than just opposing Christ as an antichrist. He will or has already replaced Christ as the savior in people’s hearts, in the temple of God. He will become or has already become their idol of worship.

He may be also living in a physical temple where he already sits as the world’s collective idol of worship to professing ‘Christians.’

Many antichrists can then be called followers of this ‘man of lawlessness.’

The term antichrist is a spirit that is addressed 4 times in scripture and only in John’s writings. It is attached to more than one being, not just one.

These are the spirits or beings that don’t believe in Jesus and present a false account of him and his teachings. They are the enemies of the real Jesus, the Christ. They are already in the world. We don’t have to wait for them or ‘him.’

These spirits say Jesus is not the Messiah, did not exist, is not the son of God, did not have a Father, and was not born as a human son or a son of man.

(1Jn 2:18) Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

(1Jn 2:22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

(1Jn 4:3) and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

(2Jn 1:7) For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. (ALL ESV)

APAK

Clues given by Paul leave no room for speculation. He said before Christ's return, there'd be an apostasy and the Man of Sin would arise within the Temple of God, would claim to be God, and present himself by appearance, doctrine, and authority as God. Paul continues by saying that there was someone restraining his arrival, but once that someone was removed, the Man of Sin would show up and continue in his authority until the Second Coming of Jesus.

History says there was indeed a great apostasy that took place in the early centuries - it was so near that Paul warned that it would take place after his death, and so pervasive that John had to remind those who knew better to "keep yourselves from idols". Was there a massive departure by the RCC from the pure doctrines of early Christianity and did every stripe and type of idolatry flood the churches?

Does the Pope claim to sit enthroned over what new New Testament repeatedly refers to as the "Temple of God", the church?

Did Paul reveal the identity of what was restraining the rise of Antichrist? Every church father who had something to say on this issue said Paul told the early church that it was the ROMAN EMPIRE. The Papacy could not rise until the Caesars were gone, and after their departure, the Papal Man of Sin arose.

Since its inception in 538 A.D., has the Papacy continued to our day, barring the brief period of "a deadly wound", after which it was healed, and do we now see everyone breaking their backs to bow down and acknowledge the Pope as the World Spiritual Leader? Have we now reached the prophetic waymark which says "all the world wondered after the beast"?

Like Spurgeon says of the identity of Antichrist, "if it be not popery in Rome, THERE IS NOTHING ELSE."

 

[Helen]

The anti-Christ. The man of sin, The beast...
None are singular...The anti-Christ is not just this Pope, the next Pope , or the one after.
It is a whole collective system , the same as the Man of sin... even men today believes they are god.
...all are systems...we have blinkers on if we shrink it so small as to believe it is just one specific person for each of these!!!

Just as the body of Christ is collective, the bride of Christ is collective, the church of God is collective...so are the beast, the anti-christ, the man of sin, and the false prophet....all collective bodies.

 

[Phoneman777]

Agree, how can we pray against prophesy...that is stupid.
That is like praying against the tide, or against winter or the seasons.
It is God's time and season.

Stupid?

Abraham prayed for God to not do to Sodom and Gomorrah what He said He would.

The Ninevites prayed for God to not do what He told Jonah to announce to their city.

And anyone who cares even the least bit about children ought to be praying that these child molesting Antichrist emissaries of Satan are restrained from harming more children, I think.

 

[Helen]

Stupid? Really? How quickly we fall for Catholic apologist straw men.

Goodness, why is everyone so narrow sighted to think that the Catholics are the big bad wolf! Look deeper and wider...you have just bought the same old, same old thing that we were sold and cut our teeth on as young immature Christians...