What are we today?

[FHII]

***
Paul says we are "in Christ" so how can we be His sheep? Quit being nit-picky.

I have absolutely no problem with the concept of being in Christ and also being his sheep. I don't see it as an either/or situation.

The Shepherd/sheep relationship is still there. We belong to Him and he watches over us. He may be doing it with divine intervention or simply letting his Word and teachings guide us..

 

[aspen]

This sounds like a case of hyper-literalism, to me. We can't be be sheep because we are part Jesus! Does that mean we are part shepherd or part lamb or part bridegroom, Richard?

 

[bbyrd009]

But since I do this the religious jump on me just as they did those in the past.

hey wait--i am like the last guy in the world one would consider religious, but i am jumping on you, too!

 

[bbyrd009]

I have shown that Jesus did everything on the cross to obtain a person's salvation and that all that is necessary for salvation is to have faith in His work.

many will cry LordLord

faith without works is dead

 

[bbyrd009]

and claim we can only be saved if we earn it by works.

you cannot earn what is free, H; but faith without works is still dead. If one is not doing the works from a changed mind, out of conviction that it is the right thing to do, and damn the cost, then yes the concept of works being a vital part of salvation will not be understood. So perhaps a better way to phrase that is that we claim that works must proceed from faith, or the faith is pointless, and becomes merely belief.

An example might be someone who claims to have "faith" in God, yet owns a gun for "protection" lol. Y'know, just in case.
Surely a controversial pov; wish i could think of a better example...but i can't. The Spirit just seems determined that i be discounted there i guess lol

 

[bbyrd009]

What I teach is from the word of God.

Where in the Word of God

Who here has read the Book of Truth?
"In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God?"

is there any way we can clear this up, so that you might be taken seriously?

 

[H. Richard]

hey wait--i am like the last guy in the world one would consider religious, but i am jumping on you, too!

BE MY GUEST

 

[H. Richard]

I have absolutely no problem with the concept of being in Christ and also being his sheep. I don't see it as an either/or situation.

The Shepherd/sheep relationship is still there. We belong to Him and he watches over us. He may be doing it with divine intervention or simply letting his Word and teachings guide us..

***
That is just fine with me. Be a sheep if it pleases you.

As for me I am a child of God and a joint heir with Jesus. A child of God is not a sheep

Rom 8:16-17
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

 

[H. Richard]

Who here has read the Book of Truth?
"In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God?"

is there any way we can clear this up, so that you might be taken seriously?

***
Where did you come up with this garbage. Since you do not see that the written word is inspired by God the Holy Spirit I will not reply to you any longer. This is getting silly.

 

[H. Richard]

hey wait--i am like the last guy in the world one would consider religious, but i am jumping on you, too!

***
Are you having fun at my expense.

 

[H. Richard]

This sounds like a case of hyper-literalism, to me. We can't be be sheep because we are part Jesus! Does that mean we are part shepherd or part lamb or part bridegroom, Richard?

***
Hey, if you want to be a sheep go ahead and be one. As for me I am a joint heir with Christ and a child of God.
Rom 8:16-17
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

For me this thread is closed since it has become silly.

 

[H. Richard]

you cannot earn what is free, H; but faith without works is still dead. If one is not doing the works from a changed mind, out of conviction that it is the right thing to do, and damn the cost, then yes the concept of works being a vital part of salvation will not be understood. So perhaps a better way to phrase that is that we claim that works must proceed from faith, or the faith is pointless, and becomes merely belief.

An example might be someone who claims to have "faith" in God, yet owns a gun for "protection" lol. Y'know, just in case.
Surely a controversial pov; wish i could think of a better example...but i can't. The Spirit just seems determined that i be discounted there i guess lol

***
The work that we are to do is to help in getting others to place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross. That is the fruit we are to help create. You take the faith + works so that faith is not dead from the book of James. That book was written to the Jews, (James 1:1) not those under grace. Under the Law if a Jew did not do the works of the Law their faith was dead. Faith, belief, trust and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross is never dead as long as they are sincere. When a child of God is sealed with the Holy Spirit their faith is never dead.

But I know you will come up with the idea that since the book of James is in the Bible it is written to those under grace too. Okay see it your way. That is not my problem.

 

[Job]

For me this thread is closed since it has become silly.

Come on, admit it. It was silly to begin with.

 

[aspen]

What's wrong with silly?

 

[Job]

Silly's ok.

 

[pia]

***
Since you ask me that question you obviously have not read anything I write. I have a post about the "IN CHRIST DOCTRINE" under the title of "OUR ARK" on this forum.

OUR ARK: (the “in Christ” doctrine)

2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).

This is how I see it. Is this how you see it? If it is not, then why?

Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are ""in Christ"" Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life ""in Christ"" Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
(NKJ)

It is not that we no longer live and sin in the flesh, it is that since we are in Christ we are walking in the Spirit (faith in Jesus’ work on the cross) and have no confidence in our flesh. Walking in the Spirit is the same as walking (having confidence) in the work of Christ on the cross.

Eph 1:10
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things ""in Christ,"" both which are in heaven and which are on earth-- ""in Him.""
(NKJ)

Notice that there are two places mentioned, heaven and earth. Jesus will be lord over both those in heaven and the earth.

When we are placed “in Christ” we are holy and without blame because He loves us and covers our sins of the flesh with His blood shed on the cross.

No, I am sorry I had not read that, I have actually not been on very long. I have thought of Jesus as our Ark for some time. I am still getting a feel for people, some it seems want to bait people into impossible and futile discussions
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it actually mentions 3 places He is Lord of ( remember He set the captives free after His death ) He is Lord above, on the earth and under the earth ( realm of the void/death ), and it was in death He saved , when I was 30, now its 33 years later and thanks to Him I am still here . Death is NO place anyone here on earth would want to go, that is for absolute certain.
I will try to get time to check some of your other posts, I am still not 100% sure how to get from some we bits to others. I am sorry, I was only trying to find out about you, I wasn't trying to offend but with anyone who claims Christ, I do like to at least find out a couple of things

 

[pia]

***
Paul says we are "in Christ" so how can we be His sheep? Quit being nit-picky.

Hello Richard....I am having to put my prayer and also thinking cap on here. Jesus is mentioned many times as the great Shepherd, the door to the sheepfold and on top of that Jesus asks Peter not long before His crucifixion to be a feeder and carer of HIS sheep . I do understand how we are in Christ too, even how it's possible for us to be seated with Him in the Heavenly places. So, yep that is true also..........
The only thought coming to my mind at the moment ( and this is just what I think ) , is that our spirits are IN CHRIST, hidden in Him til the final day, but our flesh still needs shepherding . I certainly know that mine does, and a lot of the time I thank Him for that. It is easier to just follow after Him than being like a 'run away lamb/sheep'.
I have had to stop and take stock a few times over the past 3 decades.... Any help ?

 

[pia]

ya, nobody likes to contemplate that they were being selfish in a matter, and that they owe someone an apology. Much easier to claim that Jesus paid for all of our sins, so now we get a pass i guess.

Sadly that is so for some Christians, but if someone truly is with Christ, believe me, you don't do that. Being in His presence brings about a joy and peace, which negates any and all negatives coming at you. The hard part is how to remain consistently in Him, I am not sure any of us do that.......

 

[pia]

Joel 2
28 “And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.

k

Great Stuff, thank you so much for that. I do have so much trouble finding things in the Bible....Words come to mind, but where to find them, that's another matter. Powerful stuff ! Well seems to me there is something there....

 

[pia]

many will cry LordLord, and faith without works is dead, as our churches have already demonstrated i guess.

You kind of answered yourself....As you are aware that churches ( in general ) obviously do not exercise in faith . Some things are hard and can take believers quite some time to understand. Revelation is the key thing imho, with that one cannot mis step.......Belief mixed with doubt is not faith, it becomes 'wishful thinking'.....I am not sure exactly if you really do have a question. Do you believe Jesus saves? That He is a real resurrected man ? That those who belong to Him can and often do hear Him ( in various ways )....." My sheep hear My voice and a stranger they will not follow.".....This forum being in writing really doesn't help in some matters, it takes the spirit within shining out of us, unto those we try to share Jesus with......I have seen the results of that, but have not encountered anyone on any forum who turned to Him because of what someone wrote, I could be totally wrong , but I am not aware of any. I am very sorry if I am making this worse, I am not meaning to...I may have even answered you but meaning to reply to someone else, I make quite a few mistakes... Hope all is good ? Peace and joy always Pia