What are we today?

[H. Richard]

In the 4 gospels Jesus told Peter to feed His Sheep and Lambs. These were the Jews who were His people.

Today, under grace, the children of God are not His Sheep or Lambs. We are "the body of Christ" and sons of God. As sons we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

Rom 8:15-17
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,"Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

Eph 4:14-16
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head — Christ —
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
NKJV

 

[FHII]

What do you make of John 10:16?

 

[Helen]

In the 4 gospels Jesus told Peter to feed His Sheep and Lambs. These were the Jews who were His people.

Today, under grace, the children of God are not His Sheep or Lambs. We are "the body of Christ" and sons of God. As sons we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

Yes indeed, 100% with you there. 'Becoming' fully mature sons. ✟

 

[Job]

Today, under grace, the children of God are not His Sheep

Whose sheep are we?

 

[Helen]

Whose sheep are we?

I may be wrong , but I took his meaning to be..somewhat like in John 15....in as much as we have progressed in our relationship with the Lord.

"15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you."

But, I have been wrong before. Maybe that isn't what the OP is about!

 

[Job]

I may be wrong , but I took his meaning to be..somewhat like in John 15....in as much as we have progressed in our relationship with the Lord.

"15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you."

But, I have been wrong before. Maybe that isn't what the OP is about!

John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.



Jesus never stopped referring to us as "His sheep". In fact He refers to Himself as "the good shepherd".

k

 

[Helen]

John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.



Jesus never stopped referring to us as "His sheep". In fact He refers to Himself as "the good shepherd".

k

True...but we aren't supposed to stay there..
Like Peter....he was told to "feed them"..why, ..because he was no longer just one of them as such..but was now in a feeding position not so much a receiving position.
Just like when Paul tells the church that it should be time they chewed meat, and grew up from just sucking milk from the breast....in other words-time to "Grow up."

It's time for the babes to be children, it's and time for children to become men...

 

[Job]

True...but we aren't supposed to stay there..
Like Peter....he was told to "feed them"..why, ..because he was no longer just one of them as such..but was now in a feeding position not so much a receiving position.
Just like when Paul tells the church that it should be time they chewed meat, and grew up from just sucking milk from the breast....in other words-time to "Grow up."

It's time for the babes to be children, it's and time for children to become men...

When did we start treating new converts as if they were seasoned christians? When a lamb is weaned off it's mothers milk, it's still a sheep.

If a person that came to the Lord yesterday, asked you today, "Am I a sheep or am I a part of the body of Christ?" How would you answer them?


The Lord is my Shepherd. If I'm no longer a sheep, He's no longer the Shepherd.

Vanity, it's all vanity.

k

 

[Helen]

When did we start treating new converts as if they were seasoned christians? When a lamb is weaned off it's mothers milk, it's still a sheep.

If a person that came to the Lord yesterday, asked you today, "Am I a sheep or am I a part of the body of Christ?" How would you answer them?


The Lord is my Shepherd. If I'm no longer a sheep, He's no longer the Shepherd.

Vanity, it's all vanity.

k

That's what I was trying to say...PETER was not a " new convert" .. Jesus saw him "all grown up" a seasoned minister, ready to feed God's sheep.
Let's be rational..." Sheep don't feed other sheep .."
They may feed lambs, but not other sheep.

But it is H.Richards thread, so maybe I am up a gum tree , maybe he wasn't saying what I thought he was saying!! We'll see when he returns to this thread.

 

[Job]

But it is H.Richards thread, so maybe I am up a gum tree , maybe he wasn't saying what I thought he was saying!!

Do you agree with the statement below?

Today, under grace, the children of God are not His Sheep or Lambs.

l

 

[Helen]

Do you agree with the statement below?


l

NO.
I don't know why people need boxes to put the things of God into.
We , God's people , are:- Sheep, Virgins, children, sons, The body, the church...the bride, the temple.
A kingdom of priests, a peculiar people...etc etc etc...

 

[Job]

NO.

Good.

 

[H. Richard]

What do you make of John 10:16?

***

What do you make of it? Does it make those under grace sheep? You chose, are you a sheep or a joint heir with Christ and therefore a child of God?

 

[H. Richard]

John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.



Jesus never stopped referring to us as "His sheep". In fact He refers to Himself as "the good shepherd".

k

***
Jesus rarely spoke to a Gentile. As a matter of fact He said on two occasions that He only came to the lost sheep of house of Israel (the Jews). But I know you will not accept what He said because the Theology of the churches is based on including everything Jesus said to the Jews to be said to those under grace too. A mix of law and grace.

 

[H. Richard]

When did we start treating new converts as if they were seasoned christians? When a lamb is weaned off it's mothers milk, it's still a sheep.

If a person that came to the Lord yesterday, asked you today, "Am I a sheep or am I a part of the body of Christ?" How would you answer them?


The Lord is my Shepherd. If I'm no longer a sheep, He's no longer the Shepherd.

Vanity, it's all vanity.

k

***
Jesus is the head of the body (His body). We are not sheep but children of God

 

[H. Richard]

People will have to chose one or the other. They are sheep or Children of God. A person today can not be saved under the Jewish covenant. Under the Jewish covenant Jesus will return and give the Jews their promised kingdom on this earth. But those under grace are not a part of that kingdom. According to Paul our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven with God.

The message of God's grace in His work on the cross is what saves today. Jesus and the 11 (12) never rescinded the Law of Moses or Jewish Temple worship. As a matter of fact James is still teaching the Jewish program in Acts 21:20. In Acts 21:20 the believing Jews were up in arms because Paul was telling Jews that they were on longer under the Law.

It is true today in that when anyone says we should not base our theology on the 4 gospels since those gospels are a record of Jesus fulfilling the law for us people will not hear it.. Paul was sent to the world with a new message of God's grace based entirely on faith, belief, trust and confidence in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. But religious man will not place their faith in God's work alone. They place their faith in their religions.

 

[bbyrd009]

a new message of God's grace based entirely on faith, belief, trust and confidence in what Jesus accomplished on the cross.

this misrepresents the message of grace imo, because changing your mind, or picking up your cross and following are discounted. Rebound (repentance) is negated with this; one no longer needs to rebound; or recognize when they have wronged someone, express remorse, apologize, and offer to make it right. All they have to do is "believe," and suddenly they can do no wrong, it seems.

 

[bbyrd009]

The message of God's grace in His work on the cross is what saves today.

not if grace is not practiced, it isn't. Believe as hard as you like. "Confession" to someone other than the offended party is pointless, also, and is nowhere in Scripture that i can see. (Which is i guess why no forgiveness is granted in confessional? Does a priest forgive sins?)

 

[H. Richard]

not if grace is not practiced, it isn't. Believe as hard as you like. "Confession" to someone other than the offended party is pointless, also, and is nowhere in Scripture that i can see. (Which is i guess why no forgiveness is granted in confessional? Does a priest forgive sins?)

***

Explain how God's grace can be practiced.

 

[H. Richard]

this misrepresents the message of grace imo, because changing your mind, or picking up your cross and following are discounted. Rebound (repentance) is negated with this; one no longer needs to rebound; or recognize when they have wronged someone, express remorse, apologize, and offer to make it right. All they have to do is "believe," and suddenly they can do no wrong, it seems.

***
So you add a person's work to that of Jesus' work on the cross which means He did not really accomplish our salvation by what He did because a person must add what a he/she does. But I see that you include what Peter said to the Jews at Pentecost as being under grace; which it isn't.