Matthew Chapt 5 vers 17
" Do not think that I came to Destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to Destroy! BUT to FULFILL?
" Do not think that I came to Destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to Destroy! BUT to FULFILL?
What did Jesus Fulfill
- Thread starter Truth
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
So many thinks this means the law is still in place.
He fulfilled it because no other man could because of indewling sin.
So he was an innocent man. The son of man He often said. satan killed an innocent man. Who never broke the law.
and God cursed sin on the cross that we would be set free one for all. Thats why we are not sinner and many teach aswell.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Jesus fulfilled all: "It is finished."
However, that statement is mostly confused. Most believe because they themselves have not seen the finish, that Christ obviously meant it differently than he said it - that perhaps his "earthly " ministry was finished, but surely "all" is not finished...because I personally have not seen it...
But the world does not evolve around us, it evolves around Christ. In fact, that's the point - He is the Apex. He is the timeless Creator who, not in 6000 years or 10 million years, but in the twinkling of an eye, transformed all things to His likeness. And it is only because He has laid His story (history) all out in the media of time (a time, times, and half a time), that we are able to experience it as we do. But like space and matter, time is completely contrived - a creation, completely manifest for the telling of it - as a witness. We are a witness unto ourselves, at the same time judging by our own measure, that we should be all that we "are", just as God is "I am."
I understand that we were told the end from the beginning, it is even in the stars, I believe that in Isaiah that the Prophet declares that God told us the end in Genesis. that is not what I am asking, there are these Feasts declared in Leviticus, and there are these yearly services called Holy Convocations, Strongs - Holy = #6944 Hebrew and Convocation = 4744--- basically means Holy Rehearsal's they are things that Jesus Fulfilled, in every detail. By the way I only quoted that verse to get the statement " But to Fulfill" this is not to start any debate about the LAW!
Yes you are right, After reading your response I did an Edit in my post, to be more specific.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I started this thread to try to bring out some wonderful facts in the Scriptures, that have been a source of joy to me. I Love the Word, and there is a Symphony being played that is tightly knit together that I believe will uplift others.
Take for instances, John the Baptist, do most Christians know that John was a Priest, of the Line of Aaron, Who's Father was Zechariah, when Zechariah went into the Holy Place to offer Incense on the Golden Alter of Incense at the Feast of Shavot {Pentecost] He was told by an Angel that He and His wife would have a son, and because of disbelief the Angel said ! you will not be able to speak or hear until this be fulfilled. Now when you brought a Lamb to the temple to offer as Sacrifice, the Priest would have to examine it for blemishes. This is the good part!When Jesus returned from 40 days, the Temptation John says with two of his disciples there BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, John just did His Temple service, as a Kohan Priest, and declares Jesus an Expectable Sacrifice. you got to love this!! And at that moment Jesus's Ministry Began. Johns Disciples go and begin to fallow Jesus.
Luke chapt 1 - verse 1 - 20
Take for instances, John the Baptist, do most Christians know that John was a Priest, of the Line of Aaron, Who's Father was Zechariah, when Zechariah went into the Holy Place to offer Incense on the Golden Alter of Incense at the Feast of Shavot {Pentecost] He was told by an Angel that He and His wife would have a son, and because of disbelief the Angel said ! you will not be able to speak or hear until this be fulfilled. Now when you brought a Lamb to the temple to offer as Sacrifice, the Priest would have to examine it for blemishes. This is the good part!When Jesus returned from 40 days, the Temptation John says with two of his disciples there BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, John just did His Temple service, as a Kohan Priest, and declares Jesus an Expectable Sacrifice. you got to love this!! And at that moment Jesus's Ministry Began. Johns Disciples go and begin to fallow Jesus.
Luke chapt 1 - verse 1 - 20
Last edited:
Helen
Well-Known Member
- Oct 22, 2011
- 15,471
- 21,160
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Canada
That is great...I had never "seen" that! Neither have I ever heard it preached. :) Excellent thought!!
To God be the glory!!! \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
✟
John 19
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
l
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Several hundred prophecies of the Messiah in the OT as well as many of the feasts, festivals, and details of the law.
For instance, this one from Numbers 35.....
When a person is guilty of the death of another, but it is more in line with manslaughter or unintentional as opposed to intentional murder, the guilty individual can flee to a city of refuge and remain there till the death of the High Priest without being subject to retribution by the kinsman redeemer of the dead family member.
With Jesus, we are all guilty of His death because of our sin. But He stated from the cross, "forgive them for they do not know what they do". He legally declared that we were guilty of manslaughter as oppose to out right murder. So, to be protected, we flee to the city of refuge, which is the Messiah. We remain there until the death of the high priest, which again is the Messiah (our high priest) who is eternal. In doing so, we are protected from the punishment of the crime from the next of kin of the killed victim, in this case, God the Father. Obviously, those that do not flee to Messiah for refuge will be punished by the Father.
It is these so-called "obscure" parts of the law, that if we put the Messiah in view when looking at them, we see Messiah and His fulfillment of the law. Along with that, He was killed on Passover, he was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits, and His church began at the Feast of Shavuot (Pentacost). All levitical feasts established in the Law of Moses. It is equally arguable that the fall feasts will be fulfilled by the Messiah at His return.
I will let you dig in and see how the ruling of Moses regarding the inheritance of a man goes to the daughter(s) if he has no sons was established in the Law pertaining to the daughters of Zelophahad and how that relates to the Mary, the mother of Jesus. Cool stuff that show the Messiah is throughout the Law and the Prophets and He fulfills even the littlest detail.
How about the woman caught in the act of adultery. After those that were accusing her had left, Jesus did not condemn her either. That is because The Law required the testimony of a minimum of two witnesses to condemn anyone. They all had left and there was no one to condemn her, and Jesus, even knowing that she was guilty, could not condemn her because He was only one witness. Not enough to meet the requirements of The Law. So He told her to go and sin no more.
This is why David, in the Psalms, could extol the law and declare how he loved God's law. He could see the fulfillment by the future (to David) Messiah in the entire law of Moses. Should we not also have the same view of the Law? Not as some rigid set of rules, but as a kaleidoscope of color that shows us the Messiah!
For instance, this one from Numbers 35.....
When a person is guilty of the death of another, but it is more in line with manslaughter or unintentional as opposed to intentional murder, the guilty individual can flee to a city of refuge and remain there till the death of the High Priest without being subject to retribution by the kinsman redeemer of the dead family member.
With Jesus, we are all guilty of His death because of our sin. But He stated from the cross, "forgive them for they do not know what they do". He legally declared that we were guilty of manslaughter as oppose to out right murder. So, to be protected, we flee to the city of refuge, which is the Messiah. We remain there until the death of the high priest, which again is the Messiah (our high priest) who is eternal. In doing so, we are protected from the punishment of the crime from the next of kin of the killed victim, in this case, God the Father. Obviously, those that do not flee to Messiah for refuge will be punished by the Father.
It is these so-called "obscure" parts of the law, that if we put the Messiah in view when looking at them, we see Messiah and His fulfillment of the law. Along with that, He was killed on Passover, he was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits, and His church began at the Feast of Shavuot (Pentacost). All levitical feasts established in the Law of Moses. It is equally arguable that the fall feasts will be fulfilled by the Messiah at His return.
I will let you dig in and see how the ruling of Moses regarding the inheritance of a man goes to the daughter(s) if he has no sons was established in the Law pertaining to the daughters of Zelophahad and how that relates to the Mary, the mother of Jesus. Cool stuff that show the Messiah is throughout the Law and the Prophets and He fulfills even the littlest detail.
How about the woman caught in the act of adultery. After those that were accusing her had left, Jesus did not condemn her either. That is because The Law required the testimony of a minimum of two witnesses to condemn anyone. They all had left and there was no one to condemn her, and Jesus, even knowing that she was guilty, could not condemn her because He was only one witness. Not enough to meet the requirements of The Law. So He told her to go and sin no more.
This is why David, in the Psalms, could extol the law and declare how he loved God's law. He could see the fulfillment by the future (to David) Messiah in the entire law of Moses. Should we not also have the same view of the Law? Not as some rigid set of rules, but as a kaleidoscope of color that shows us the Messiah!
Last edited:
pia
Well-Known Member
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
pia
Well-Known Member
Hello....The way I had understood the woman caught in adultery, (and of course, you are right, it was by two or three witnesses, who had already accused her in front of Jesus ), was that Jesus was trying to show them, that the law had never quite been meant to be used the way they did, MERCY had ALWAYS been an option to them, as indeed God had always been merciful to them. Gods law was from the beginning designed to limit, any violence. God meant it like this ( and remember mercy was always a persons/ an accusers option as a choice ) One eye for one eye, one tooth for one tooth etc. NOT two eyes for an eye or your life, or your whole families lives and on and on, Just the one for the one, and then NO MORE .......They, the Pharisees wanting to totally control the people made the law into a heavy burden in many many ways, and Jesus tried many times to show that, also daring to heal on a Sabbath. Love what you have written though. Great stuff :)
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Initially, there were several "witnesses". But then after they left, Jesus asked the woman "where are your accusers?". The so-called witnesses had essentially recanted, from a purely legal standpoint, since they left the scene.
And also, mercy has always been a focal point of God. So your assertion is equally valid. It compliments the story well.
And also, mercy has always been a focal point of God. So your assertion is equally valid. It compliments the story well.
If you all would like to understand the Spring Feasts, It will take some time to explain Gods Calendar, and Gods time line, as to how to start the Months that begin the Passover. Yeshuah [Jesus] was our Passover sacrifice. Yes or No! there are in the old Testament, the Holy Convocations, which are Holy rehearsals. these rehearsals are things that Israel did every year, year after year, after Solomon's Temple was finished. they were part of Temple Service given to David and instituted by King Solomon! Again would you like to have some understanding about these rehearsals, that our Savior fulfilled??
Last edited:
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
It is good to have somewhat of a grasp on the Jewish calendar, both the civil and the religious calendars and a good working concept of the Messiah in all the feasts of Israel. It is truly sad that these things are not taught in most Christian circles.
Like such little nuances that a cup is set for Elijah at the passover table, and the children are sent to the door to see if Elijah has come, because Elijah had to come before the Messiah. And Yeshua Himself said that John came in spirit of Elijah. And the angel that announced John to his father Zechariah serving in the temple also said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17). And given the time this was told in conjunction with Zechariah's service in the temple during his division of Aviyah, it is reasonable to conclude that JB's birth was at the time of Passover the following year, when tradition says that Elijah is to come.
And that Shavuot (Feast of Weeks / Pentacost), it is tradition that God gave Moses the Law on Mt. Sinai at this time and when He did, He declared the Law in all the known languages of the earth. On Pentacost when the church was born, the disciples spoke in all the languages of the people present at the Feast.
The fall feasts have their own particular interesting applications as well, but primarily in a future application sense. Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) comes to mind. In the feast are allusions to the removal of the righteous, the wedding of the Messiah, and the coronation of the Messiah as King. And the Feast is a two day feast that starts on the first of Tishri, and it is called the "day that no man knows" because it cannot be determined when it starts until the New Moon is declared. It is a two day feast. The 7 days between this feast and Yom Kippur are called the "days of awe" and a allusion to the 7 year final period before Messiah returns.
Now, it is fun to speculate if the removal of the righteous will actually occur on Rosh Hashanah or not, but it is a bit of hubris on our part to say for certain that it is the case. It can be reliably argued that God has thus far been a stickler for fulfilling things down to almost the nanosecond in those feast that clearly spoke of Messiah's first coming and that He will follow the same pattern in the fall feasts.
Fun stuff, eh? I get a real kick out of putting time into this kind of thing.
Like such little nuances that a cup is set for Elijah at the passover table, and the children are sent to the door to see if Elijah has come, because Elijah had to come before the Messiah. And Yeshua Himself said that John came in spirit of Elijah. And the angel that announced John to his father Zechariah serving in the temple also said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17). And given the time this was told in conjunction with Zechariah's service in the temple during his division of Aviyah, it is reasonable to conclude that JB's birth was at the time of Passover the following year, when tradition says that Elijah is to come.
And that Shavuot (Feast of Weeks / Pentacost), it is tradition that God gave Moses the Law on Mt. Sinai at this time and when He did, He declared the Law in all the known languages of the earth. On Pentacost when the church was born, the disciples spoke in all the languages of the people present at the Feast.
The fall feasts have their own particular interesting applications as well, but primarily in a future application sense. Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) comes to mind. In the feast are allusions to the removal of the righteous, the wedding of the Messiah, and the coronation of the Messiah as King. And the Feast is a two day feast that starts on the first of Tishri, and it is called the "day that no man knows" because it cannot be determined when it starts until the New Moon is declared. It is a two day feast. The 7 days between this feast and Yom Kippur are called the "days of awe" and a allusion to the 7 year final period before Messiah returns.
Now, it is fun to speculate if the removal of the righteous will actually occur on Rosh Hashanah or not, but it is a bit of hubris on our part to say for certain that it is the case. It can be reliably argued that God has thus far been a stickler for fulfilling things down to almost the nanosecond in those feast that clearly spoke of Messiah's first coming and that He will follow the same pattern in the fall feasts.
Fun stuff, eh? I get a real kick out of putting time into this kind of thing.
Just like the calendar we use in our life today, there are 12 months, ours starts with January and ends with December,! Gods calendar starts with the Head of months, called Abib or Aviv KJV, today the month is called Nisson and the last month is Adar. At the end of the month of Adar, Two things need to be established -1- The Barley in the land of Israel needs to be ripe enough to harvest thus the term Aviv 2nd the first sliver of the renewed Moon has to be sighted, if these two are established, then the month of Abib or Aviv begins, Day 1. Then on the 10th Day of the month, the rehearsal or Temple Service starts in the morning. The High Priest leaves the Temple Mount with two other Priests, goes down the path, which is lined on both sides with all the Priests. The High Priest with the two other Priests walk down the path between all the other Priests to the North Gate, then they walk to Bethlehem which is about 5 miles, to select a Lamb for the Nation of Israel for the Passover. This is a required Feast, All males are required to Come up this Feast, But this is also a Feast of rejoicing, worship, a festival type Feast so all peoples come Up. So there are Thousands of People in Jerusalem and the surrounding area. Now every Household will have a Lamb for the Passover which will be Sacrificed!!! The Lamb that the Priest selects is for THE NATION of Israel. Now imagine if you can, there are thousands of people there for the Passover, and they always bring to these Festival Feast, Green branches, Palm frons, to bring green life into the city, this IS a festival Feast a time of excitement. the People gather on and around the Temple Mount, they watch the Priests descend from the Temple and go out the Gate toward Bethlehem, and wait for the Priests to return with the Lamb for the Nation. When the Priest inter the Gate with the Lamb on a lead rope, the People begin to wave their palm frons and begin to shout HO-SAN' NA! BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, and as the Priest ascends to the Temple the Multitude of peoples fill in behind Him, continuing to sing and wave these palm branches all the way to the top. It had to be like a rock concert with the sound of a whirlwind!
Now when the Priest enters the Temple Court Area, He ties the National Lamb to a Stake, and it is there for 4 Days for all to inspect for Blemishes.
Luke 19 ver 37-Then, as He [Jesus] was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole Multitude of the Disciples began to rejoice and Praise God with a Loud voice for all the Mighty Works they had seen, Saying Blessed is the King who Comes In The Name Of The Lord!
John 12 vers 12-13 - The Next Day a great multitude that had come to the Feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13- took branches of Palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out, Ho-san'na! Blessed is He Who Comes In The Name Of The Lord.
On this Day Yeshuah [Jesus] entered the Gate ahead of the Priest, and the Rehearsal began, and there was no stopping it. The Priest cries out!!
Tell Your Disciples to Shut Up, And Jesus says! I will not, I Will not, If the Rocks have to cry it out! then the Rocks WILL Cry It Out!!!!
Then Jesus Ascends up to the Temple Mount, and for 4 DAYS, the Sadducees, and the Pharisees, and all that were in authority put Him to the Test, Trying to Find Fault [Blemishes] in Him! Remember John declared Yeshuah [Jesus] to be an acceptable Sacrifice not only for Israel, but for the World, The International Lamb. This is only the First Part of the Spring Feasts. { Holy Convocation } = Holy Rehearsal-- Fulfilled in every detail as they were rehearsed!
Now when the Priest enters the Temple Court Area, He ties the National Lamb to a Stake, and it is there for 4 Days for all to inspect for Blemishes.
Luke 19 ver 37-Then, as He [Jesus] was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole Multitude of the Disciples began to rejoice and Praise God with a Loud voice for all the Mighty Works they had seen, Saying Blessed is the King who Comes In The Name Of The Lord!
John 12 vers 12-13 - The Next Day a great multitude that had come to the Feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13- took branches of Palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out, Ho-san'na! Blessed is He Who Comes In The Name Of The Lord.
On this Day Yeshuah [Jesus] entered the Gate ahead of the Priest, and the Rehearsal began, and there was no stopping it. The Priest cries out!!
Tell Your Disciples to Shut Up, And Jesus says! I will not, I Will not, If the Rocks have to cry it out! then the Rocks WILL Cry It Out!!!!
Then Jesus Ascends up to the Temple Mount, and for 4 DAYS, the Sadducees, and the Pharisees, and all that were in authority put Him to the Test, Trying to Find Fault [Blemishes] in Him! Remember John declared Yeshuah [Jesus] to be an acceptable Sacrifice not only for Israel, but for the World, The International Lamb. This is only the First Part of the Spring Feasts. { Holy Convocation } = Holy Rehearsal-- Fulfilled in every detail as they were rehearsed!
Last edited:
Copperhead & Pia
both of your reply's are valid, I believe there were more than enough witnesses to condemn, I also believe these Priests and men that brought her to Jesus, knew where she lived and had probably been a partaker in her trade, because Jesus said those of you without this sin! or without sin cast the first stone. King David was a Murder, Adulterer yet God Forgave Him, Love and Mercy establishes the Law, God is the Law and God is Love and Mercy. in the New Testament I believe it says, something to the effect, that God was tired of sacrifice and preferred mercy, toward Orphans, Widows and the Poor, kindness and right Judgment! Oh by the way where was the Male counterpart to the adultery - Yea!!!!
both of your reply's are valid, I believe there were more than enough witnesses to condemn, I also believe these Priests and men that brought her to Jesus, knew where she lived and had probably been a partaker in her trade, because Jesus said those of you without this sin! or without sin cast the first stone. King David was a Murder, Adulterer yet God Forgave Him, Love and Mercy establishes the Law, God is the Law and God is Love and Mercy. in the New Testament I believe it says, something to the effect, that God was tired of sacrifice and preferred mercy, toward Orphans, Widows and the Poor, kindness and right Judgment! Oh by the way where was the Male counterpart to the adultery - Yea!!!!
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
I have always felt the woman caught in adultery was a set up. Where is the guy? Last time I checked, it took a man and a woman to commit adultery. I am no Greek scholar by any stretch, but I have also read and heard from others that the nuance of the Greek is it wasn't really "those without sin cast the first stone", but really "those that are without THIS sin cast the first stone". Either way, mighty suspicious. I am betting they caught one of their own in this little encounter and played favorites in who was going to be brought up on charges. Nothing new under the sun is there?
pia
Well-Known Member
He actually told me, that "Mercy was ALWAYS an option"..Seems hard hearted men have a bit to answer for :)
Similar threads
