pia
Well-Known Member
Sorry I answered you on another of your posts, only just saw this one. Am having a bit of trouble navigating this site, I will try to get better
What did Jesus Fulfill
- Thread starter Truth
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just to throw some things into the mix
there is the bread and the wine, the bread associated to Adam and the wine associated to Noah and the
Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Salem was what is now Jerusalem and Melchizedek brought this to the man of "Faith" hence the faithful.
there is also the father son who was offered and Jacob who was renamed Israel his twelve sons and the resulting Children of Israel hence born of Israel. and we know the Father the Son that was offered and the Holy Spirit of which all are born of that are the Children of God that has come through the twelve.
there is also Cain and Abel, Abel being the first man to experience the death of this life, at the hand of his brother who had worldly authority over him. sounds like what happened to Jesus. note also that needless to say the Father had respect for His Beloved Son not exactly what the authorities of Israel were experiencing. same deal they would talk to Him and be more and more desirous for His death.
I am not sure if some if any, realize the adulteress Religion that our savior was faced with in what is now called Orthodox Judaism. Knowing that the Pharisees had long left the Faith that was instituted by Moses, that they had turned the Faith of their time into a False Religion. God said that thou shall not add to or take away from the Commandments. And that is exactly what they had done! when John the Baptist was Baptizing people in the Jordan, before Jesus even came to Him, What were they, the people repenting for! NOT KEEPING GODS LAW, they had been persuaded over the last 300 yrs into believing what the Pharisees taught. If you read the New Testament, if you look as to how Jesus was in conflict with the Religious leaders you can see that He was Refuting them. Take this example, when Jesus and His Disciples walked through the wheat field, and plucked the heads of grain and ate, The Pharisees asked? Why do you do that which is unlawful on the Sabbath, First by plucking the grain, they were Harvesting, 2nd when they rubbed the husks of the grain, they were winnowing 3rd when they ate the grain they were grinding, you might laugh, but that was what the Pharisees were doing with their own rules and regulations. and by placing this burden on the people, they were also keeping the poor from entering a field to get food, which was completely Legal according to the Law, Leviticus 23! And by the way the Priest at the Temple were not even from Aarons line, they were Roman appointees. After Jesus raised Lazarus from the tomb, the Religious leaders took counsel, and said something to the effect, If we let Him continue the people will follow Him and the Romans will take away Our Place [positions] and our Nation. OUR NATION =we will lose the hold we have on the people!!! Sorry got away from what Jesus Fulfilled! but your responses were good, and I wanted to respond.
Hiding away safely just like in all religions, its the womans fault is teh cry of satan.
well a lot of times the restrictions using the authority to establish law is for corrupt economic reasons. for example the British outlawed the people in India to harvest there own salt, so they can sell their salt to them. the merchants at the house of God was also a result of corruption for economic reasons. its human nature to do so, they just used religious authority to perpetrate it. I am sure the tax and extortion by the politicos was profitable enough to keep the masses in the dark at most any cost, like murder by false accusation.
if Jesus came into most any nation in most any time in human history, He would have been treated the same by the same authorities, its just that Jerusalem and Israel is the chosen place and people for Christ to come to.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
He lived the law by loving God and Neighbor. Religion had become a theory rather than transformation - Jesus turned religion on its head
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Yes He did, and it cost Him much suffering, every thing He was confronted with was upside down!
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
The reasoning behind what Orthodox Judaism was motivated to do was good, just how they went about it was stupid.
The concept is this.... say I establish a commandment that my child is to not touch the stove. That is to protect the child. Now, Rabbinic Judaism would say, the way to make sure that commandment is not breached is to make another commandment that the child cannot go into the kitchen.
The idea was to put a fence around the Torah. That way the commandments could not be broken. But in doing this, they lost the heart of what the Law was all about. It was this nonsense that caused Yeshua's disciples to come under attack for picking heads of grain to eat as they walked along on the Sabbath. In their zeal to make sure the commandment to do no work on the Sabbath was protected, the religious leaders forgot that life takes precedence over the legal aspects of the law.
Unfortunately, many churches do the very same thing. They get so bound up in legalism and relegate people and the Messiah to an afterthought.
The concept is this.... say I establish a commandment that my child is to not touch the stove. That is to protect the child. Now, Rabbinic Judaism would say, the way to make sure that commandment is not breached is to make another commandment that the child cannot go into the kitchen.
The idea was to put a fence around the Torah. That way the commandments could not be broken. But in doing this, they lost the heart of what the Law was all about. It was this nonsense that caused Yeshua's disciples to come under attack for picking heads of grain to eat as they walked along on the Sabbath. In their zeal to make sure the commandment to do no work on the Sabbath was protected, the religious leaders forgot that life takes precedence over the legal aspects of the law.
Unfortunately, many churches do the very same thing. They get so bound up in legalism and relegate people and the Messiah to an afterthought.
well in the case of "religion" religion is mankind's socially acceptable way to keep "God" stuff away from the real world. man was given dominion on the face of the planet and doesn't see any reason to forfeit it to a God who in their opinion should stay in Heaven. so there is the religion and political powers in the world. but the Torah is the political structure of the Israeli society via law just as any society that respects the use of law to establish and sustain their society.
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
God isn't a religion of ceremonies as the gentile societies expect, He is the Living God that is about life and living. see the first chapter of Isaiah He has not pleasure in ceremonial offerings, and eventually toke the Israelite's way to do so from them. He cares about His courts of justice for righteousness. which have nothing to do with religion.
in societies like the US, people believe in their societies and have expectations in them. that is what the Lord our God is about. Jesus preached Kingdom of God, not religion or religious beliefs. Israel presumed itself to be the Kingdom of God, don't you know? they were a nation that was supposed to be subject to God. in all manor of their society's daily life.
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
God isn't a religion of ceremonies as the gentile societies expect, He is the Living God that is about life and living. see the first chapter of Isaiah He has not pleasure in ceremonial offerings, and eventually toke the Israelite's way to do so from them. He cares about His courts of justice for righteousness. which have nothing to do with religion.
in societies like the US, people believe in their societies and have expectations in them. that is what the Lord our God is about. Jesus preached Kingdom of God, not religion or religious beliefs. Israel presumed itself to be the Kingdom of God, don't you know? they were a nation that was supposed to be subject to God. in all manor of their society's daily life.
Than man stood it back on its feet, and replaced the Holy Spirit with doctrines.
Wild Olive
New Member
Thanks for quoting 1Samuel 8:7 I am very convicted by that verse.
1 Samuel 8:7 completely breaks my heart for God. It is almost as if I can feel God's heart being broken in two in that verse. I don't know if you may experience it that way but everytime I read that passage my heart also breaks and brings me to tears, it's so powerful!
In response to the quote in Isaiah 1:11-16. I respectfully disagree that is why He is removing the feasts. The way I understand it is that because of Israel's transgressions God's beloved Moedim was now a stench because they came to Him oozing with sin and uncleanness. He wanted them to come before Him clean, Isaiah 1:16. I think it is the same for us when we worship in vain and refuse to change our sinfull ways. How beautiful it must have been when God's beloved (Israel) came and feasted with Him with gifts and offerings out of a clean loving heart. Just as it is when we are obidient out of love for our Messiah and offer gifts from a pure heart. I know this is definitely something I need to work on
thanks for allowing me to share.
I don't believe that the Feasts were abolished, I believe that Our Creator was discussed with the false Worship, coming before Him with the Filth of Sin, and doing these Sacrifice's as a routine thing, like putting a quarter in a parking meter. The Feasts were a Commandment, and I don't think that God would repent from His word. they were established for a purpose, as in the post earlier, Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts, and He will Fulfill the Fall Feasts, to the day, the hour, and in every detail as they were rehearsed!
Wild Olive
New Member
I agree, they are commanded by the Creator of the Universe and we will be keeping Sukkot in the new Jerusalem according to Zechariah 14
Spring Feasts Continued !
Yeshuah [Jesus] was born in Bethlehem,-- the Hebrew name for Bethlehem is, -- Beit Lechem= which means House of Bread! The Bread of Life born in the House of Bread!!
During the year there were Lambs Sacrificed twice a day, one lamb in the morning, and one lamb in the evening, both with a wine and meal offering, called Tamid Offerings. Therefore the Temple Priests maintained a large Sheepfold in Bethlehem, This is why they would go to Bethlehem to select a Lamb for the Nation!! --- The Lamb of God born where they kept the Sheepfold!
Now on the 14th Day of the month of Aviv it is a Sabbath, but work is allowed for the preparation of Passover. Thousands of Lambs are being Sacrificed on the Temple Mount, and the the last Lamb to be Sacrificed is for the Nation.
Yeshuah [Jesus] was arrested after sundown of the 13th Day, which is now the 14th day, Taken to the Temple Priests, and then brought before Pilate, after much debate about Him being innocent or guilty, Pilate had Him Scurged, then had Him led away to be Crucified. Jesus was Crucified on the 14th, on Passover. And at the time He gave up the Spirit, the Last Lamb, the National Lamb was Sacrificed, and on the Temple Mount the High Priest would say, IT IS FINISHED. After Sacrificing thousands of Lambs for the peoples Households, Then The Last Lamb for The Nation! During the Feasts all Priests were on Duty.
Next is the Day of First Fruits
On the 10th Day the Lamb is selected, on the 14th Day the Lamb is Sacrificed, and at sundown it becomes the 15th Day which is a High Sabbath, the first day of unleavened Bread, Seven Days you shall eat unleavened Bread, on the 21st Day it is a High Sabbath until sundown, that concludes the Feast of unleavened Bread. No work is done an the High Sabbaths, Now during the week there will be a weekly Sabbath, Before the weekly Sabbath the Priests would mark out Sheaves of Barley by just tying strips of cloth around the standing Barley, and after the Sabbath before dark the Priest would Harvest the Barley, It was a Public Event, People were invited to witness the event. Then the Priests would take the Sheaves to the Temple and prepare it for the Next Morning, Called the Wave Offering of the First Fruits, this also was a Public Event. And they would Wave the Barley before the Lord, and after that the People could then use the Barley from the Harvest. This always occurred on the First Day of the Week, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, is the weekly Sabbath, Sunday is the Wave offering.
Matthew 27: verses 50 - 53
50- Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His Spirit,
51- Then, Behold, the Veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the Earth Quaked, and the Rocks were Split,
52- AND THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; and Many Bodies of the Saints who had Fallen Asleep were Raised!!
53- And coming out of the Graves "AFTER" His Resurrection, They went into the City and Appeared to Many! these Saints made their being raised a Public Event.
1-Graves Opened = Marked Out, Sheaves
2- Jesus the FIRST of the First Fruits
3- Saints the First fruits of the Saints
John 20: vers 16-17
16-Jesus said to Her "MARY" she turned to Him and said "Rab-bo ni. this is when Mary thought Jesus was the Gardener!!
17- Jesus said to Her, Do Not Touch Me, for I have not Ascended to My Father; But go to My Brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and to your God!
Yeshuah [Jesus] gathered up the Saints that had Risen and took them to the Father, and Presented them as the First fruits Offering!!!!!
After the weekly Sabbath that the first fruits offering takes place, then you count seven Sabbaths,=49 days + 1 day, which will be on the first day of the week,Sunday. 50 Days and you have Pentecost, Yeshuahs [Jesus's ] promise of the comforter is fulfilled. Pentecost means 50 in Greek, this was also a High Sabbath, a required one Day Feast, in Hebrew it is called Shavot, which means 50!!!!
Yeshuah [Jesus] was born in Bethlehem,-- the Hebrew name for Bethlehem is, -- Beit Lechem= which means House of Bread! The Bread of Life born in the House of Bread!!
During the year there were Lambs Sacrificed twice a day, one lamb in the morning, and one lamb in the evening, both with a wine and meal offering, called Tamid Offerings. Therefore the Temple Priests maintained a large Sheepfold in Bethlehem, This is why they would go to Bethlehem to select a Lamb for the Nation!! --- The Lamb of God born where they kept the Sheepfold!
Now on the 14th Day of the month of Aviv it is a Sabbath, but work is allowed for the preparation of Passover. Thousands of Lambs are being Sacrificed on the Temple Mount, and the the last Lamb to be Sacrificed is for the Nation.
Yeshuah [Jesus] was arrested after sundown of the 13th Day, which is now the 14th day, Taken to the Temple Priests, and then brought before Pilate, after much debate about Him being innocent or guilty, Pilate had Him Scurged, then had Him led away to be Crucified. Jesus was Crucified on the 14th, on Passover. And at the time He gave up the Spirit, the Last Lamb, the National Lamb was Sacrificed, and on the Temple Mount the High Priest would say, IT IS FINISHED. After Sacrificing thousands of Lambs for the peoples Households, Then The Last Lamb for The Nation! During the Feasts all Priests were on Duty.
Next is the Day of First Fruits
On the 10th Day the Lamb is selected, on the 14th Day the Lamb is Sacrificed, and at sundown it becomes the 15th Day which is a High Sabbath, the first day of unleavened Bread, Seven Days you shall eat unleavened Bread, on the 21st Day it is a High Sabbath until sundown, that concludes the Feast of unleavened Bread. No work is done an the High Sabbaths, Now during the week there will be a weekly Sabbath, Before the weekly Sabbath the Priests would mark out Sheaves of Barley by just tying strips of cloth around the standing Barley, and after the Sabbath before dark the Priest would Harvest the Barley, It was a Public Event, People were invited to witness the event. Then the Priests would take the Sheaves to the Temple and prepare it for the Next Morning, Called the Wave Offering of the First Fruits, this also was a Public Event. And they would Wave the Barley before the Lord, and after that the People could then use the Barley from the Harvest. This always occurred on the First Day of the Week, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, is the weekly Sabbath, Sunday is the Wave offering.
Matthew 27: verses 50 - 53
50- Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His Spirit,
51- Then, Behold, the Veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the Earth Quaked, and the Rocks were Split,
52- AND THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; and Many Bodies of the Saints who had Fallen Asleep were Raised!!
53- And coming out of the Graves "AFTER" His Resurrection, They went into the City and Appeared to Many! these Saints made their being raised a Public Event.
1-Graves Opened = Marked Out, Sheaves
2- Jesus the FIRST of the First Fruits
3- Saints the First fruits of the Saints
John 20: vers 16-17
16-Jesus said to Her "MARY" she turned to Him and said "Rab-bo ni. this is when Mary thought Jesus was the Gardener!!
17- Jesus said to Her, Do Not Touch Me, for I have not Ascended to My Father; But go to My Brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and to your God!
Yeshuah [Jesus] gathered up the Saints that had Risen and took them to the Father, and Presented them as the First fruits Offering!!!!!
After the weekly Sabbath that the first fruits offering takes place, then you count seven Sabbaths,=49 days + 1 day, which will be on the first day of the week,Sunday. 50 Days and you have Pentecost, Yeshuahs [Jesus's ] promise of the comforter is fulfilled. Pentecost means 50 in Greek, this was also a High Sabbath, a required one Day Feast, in Hebrew it is called Shavot, which means 50!!!!
Wild Olive
New Member
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Pretty good overall. Just a minor exception on dates.
The Passover is on the 14th, but it begins on the evening on the 13th. Days are measured from evening to evening based on the creation, when the Lord stated that the evening and the morning were each day. So one has to look at each day beginning on the evening of the previous day. Just as they are now in Jewish circles.
Yes indeed, Yeshua rode into Jerusalem on the 10th (palm Sunday as it is commonly known) and was inspected for 4 days by the religious leadership, including the final trials and the crucifixion.
10th - Day 1 Sunday. Triumphal entry. The very day of the year that Psalm 118 is read. The hallel psalm that welcomes the salvation of the messiah. This is why the Pharisees told Yeshua to rebuke the crowd that they go too far in welcoming Yeshua according to the Psalm. First day of inspection of the lamb.
11th - Day 2 Monday. More inspection
12th - Day 3 Tuesday. More inspection.
13th - Day 4 Wednesday. final inspection And the lamb is sacrificed for the passover at the twain of the evenings, or 9th hour, for Passover that begins later that evening. The Ninth hour when the national lamb is sacrificed, yes, Yeshua died and said it is finished. Joseph of Arimathea (possibly a close relative of Yeshua) asks for the body so that it can be buried before the sabbath begins. The High Sabbath.
14th - Passover which is the High Sabbath as all major feast days of Leviticus 23 are. Thursday (began Wednesday eve)
15th - Friday
16th - Saturday - Weekly Sabbath
17th - Sunday and the day of Feast of First Fruits (the first of the week following the weekly sabbath after passover per Leviticus 23). Along with resurrection of Yeshua it was the very day of the month Noah and the Ark landed on the mount after the flood to begin a new life. Yeshua is our first fruits. As well as the Bread of life as Truth posted as this Feast of Firstfruits is during the 7 days of unleavened bread.
13th evening thru 16th eve (which begins first of the week) is the three days and three nights in the earth that Yeshua stated. 13th eve, 14th eve, 15th eve combined with 14th day, 15th day, and 16th day. 3 days and 3 nights. Yeshua rose before dawn on the 17th. The Roman guards were overcome by the resurrection while it was still dark.
Hadn't seen it quite that way you presented it, Truth, and it is very fascinating about how Yeshua after His resurrection took those that had risen at His death to the Father as the First Fruits offering. Very cool perspective and fits well! Thanks for that!
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Went back and re-read Leviticus 23. By bad. You are correct. The Passover begins at the evening of the 14th, which is the start of the 15th. My bad. Duh! Got caught up in the discussion and goofed! Not the first time nor the last! So you would be correct... Yeshua was crucified on the 14th. Gonna have to go back and correlate the days again. That is what I do like about discussion such as this.. it makes us check things out again to make sure we are not off somewhere. Thanks again, Truth!
Thanks for quoting 1Samuel 8:7 I am very convicted by that verse.
1 Samuel 8:7 completely breaks my heart for God. It is almost as if I can feel God's heart being broken in two in that verse. I don't know if you may experience it that way but everytime I read that passage my heart also breaks and brings me to tears, it's so powerful!
In response to the quote in Isaiah 1:11-16. I respectfully disagree that is why He is removing the feasts. The way I understand it is that because of Israel's transgressions God's beloved Moedim was now a stench because they came to Him oozing with sin and uncleanness. He wanted them to come before Him clean, Isaiah 1:16. I think it is the same for us when we worship in vain and refuse to change our sinfull ways. How beautiful it must have been when God's beloved (Israel) came and feasted with Him with gifts and offerings out of a clean loving heart. Just as it is when we are obidient out of love for our Messiah and offer gifts from a pure heart. I know this is definitely something I need to work on
no that is why, God never removes repentance, mercy, righteousness, His Judgement, faith in Him so on and so forth, and those things are life, not religion. the gentile religions used to make offerings and sacrifices to their idols also. such is ceremonial, not life. note there is no need for such today.
the acknowledgment that goes back to Abel the first man to experience death were he acknowledged God's covering of man's nakedness and shame by covering Adam and Eve with animal skins. they were covered by the innocent. just as the Lamb of God the innocent's life and body covers the believer now in the sight of God. so in the case of the offering that Israel was to exercise, was for their sakes to continually acknowledge God's covering of them, in the short coming of human nature, in the Presence of God's nature.
Well at the time of that Our Savior walked this Earth the calendar use by the Hebrew People was Gods Calendar, based on the Lunar cycle. Yes the Julian Calendar existed, from what I know for about 42 years before Yeshuah's [Jesus ] Ministry. The Romans used it But the Hebrew People were still using the Lunar Calendar to establish the Feasts. I reread my Post and I thought that I had explained that He was Arrested at the end of the 13th. which starts the 14th after sundown.
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