What do you think about gender equality in Christianity?

[TLHKAJ]

@TLHKAJ did not provide a answer to your question.

Actually, sister, I did answer his question.

1 Corinthians 11:11-12
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Those last two verses sum it up. Both man and woman are "of/by" the other, and "all things of God." That is equality.

And also, as I have stated before,and you stated again... Genesis states that both male and female were created in the image of God. There are definite differences in male and female, even in their roles. But the Bible does not limit women in ministry.

 

[TLHKAJ]

@Amazed@grace Did you watch the Bible study video I shared somewhere in this thread? They took several key passages and looked at them in context and according to the original language and gave some very good insights into the truth about women, men, and roles in the church, marriage, etc.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Actually, sister, I did answer his question.

1 Corinthians 11:11-12
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Those last two verses sum it up. Both man and woman are "of/by" the other, and "all things of God." That is equality.

And also, as I have stated before,and you stated again... Genesis states that both male and female were created in the image of God. There are definite differences in male and female, even in their roles. But the Bible does not limit women in ministry.

Did you read all of my post after my saying you did not answer his question? I said you eviscerated their question. :) Meaning, not only did you answer it, you gutted the question and the weak foundation upon which it was propped.

Well done sister. Well done indeed

 

[Amazed@grace]

@Amazed@grace Did you watch the Bible study video I shared somewhere in this thread? They took several key passages and looked at them in context and according to the original language and gave some very good insights into the truth about women, men, and roles in the church, marriage, etc.

I did see that,yes.

I think the mistake I make when refuting those who advocate false teachings as they twist scripture for their personal reasons and purpose, is to think in refuting them with God's word in context that I will change their mind.

That is arrogance and pride on my part. And of course wrong. Only God can change their mind.
Instead, God calls us to be ready to defend the truth and the reason for our faith in him.
Let God do the rest. He knows our name. And others he does not.

Maybe, and this just came to me, this is why some purveyors of false teaching resort to personal insults to further their efforts. To gain God's attention as they think to wage war against his word and his people.
How tragic is that?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Did you read all of my post after my saying you did not answer his question? I said you eviscerated their question. :) Meaning, not only did you answer it, you gutted the question and the weak foundation upon which it was propped.

Well done sister. Well done indeed

I am in town so I think I only skimmed the beginning and didn't finish. I apologize for that. I'll have to sit and go back over once I'm finally home. :)

 

[Amazed@grace]

I am in town so I think I only skimmed the beginning and didn't finish. I apologize for that. I'll have to sit and go back over once I'm finally home. :)

No problem at all, perfectly understandable.:)

I too have skimmed and missed things in posts before.
Sometimes I suck at multitasking.: lol

 

[michaelvpardo]

Now I understand why my X thought that the antichrist would be a woman. Paul was right.

 

[Enoch111]

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

If you want the truth, you should quote the entire passage. Starting at verse 1 and going to verse 16.

1 CORINTHIANS 11: ORDINANCES
CHRISTIAN WOMEN TO COVER THEIR HEADS
DURING WORSHIP

PAUL SETS THE EXAMPLE
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

PAUL HAD DELIVERED ORDINANCES TO CHURCHES
2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

THE HEAD OR AUTHORITY OVER THE WOMAN IS THE MAN
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

THEREFORE MEN MUST NOT COVER THEIR HEADS
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his Head [who is Christ].

BUT THE UNCOVERED WOMAN DISHONOURS HER HUSBAND
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

IT IS A SHAME FOR WOMEN TO NOT COVER THEIR HEADS
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

THE MAN IS THE IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

THE WOMAN IS OF (OR FOR) THE MAN
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

THE WOMAN (EVE) WAS CREATED FOR THE MAN (ADAM)
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

THAT IS WHY WOMEN MUST SHOW THE SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY ON THEIR HEADS
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. [Note: the Greek word exousia (translated "power" = authority and the head covering symbolizes the man's authority]

CHRISTIAN HUSBANDS AND WIVES COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

WHILE EVE CAME FROM ADAM'S RIB, MEN ARE BORN OF WOMEN
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

CHRISTIANS ARE TO JUDGE WHETHER UNCOVERED HEADS ARE ACCEPTABLE
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

NATURE PROVIDES A LESSON FOR SPIRITUAL APPLICATION
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT TO BE CONTENTIOUS ABOUT THIS
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom [of uncovered heads], neither the churches of God. [Note: all the apostolic churches held to the doctrine of women with covered heads during worship. And that custom continued until the early 20th century. But even now many churches require women to cover their heads during worship]

 

[robert derrick]

Gender equality is just a slogan used by LGBT to push in Godly lives

Beginning with feminism, which was not about women asserting their rights and opportunities as free citizens, but rather about reversing the traditional roles in order to get back at men.

The same as modern 'civil rights' activism. It's about reverse discrimination to get back at white people. Has nothing to do with equality of the races nor the 'content of character'. Which is why they say black people can't be racists, because they don't have the power for it.

Whenever someone starts spouting idiot slogans and theories, be sure they are the culprits, not the victims. (And don't get me started about modern perpetual victimology...)

 

[robert derrick]

It doesn't matter what I believe. You nor most "men" here want to know the truth. They're too busy trying to interpret the Word how they want it to be for their own prideful and selfish purposes. I am a woman... you don't want to hear anything from me. You would automatically discount it.

So women's liberation is all about confessing how worthless you are to men??

Well, I don't agree. You're not completely worthless, if you look good enough.

(Hey, I'm just trying to fit into her ideology)

 

[robert derrick]

If you want the truth, you should quote the entire passage. Starting at verse 1 and going to verse 16.

1 CORINTHIANS 11: ORDINANCES
CHRISTIAN WOMEN TO COVER THEIR HEADS
DURING WORSHIP

PAUL SETS THE EXAMPLE
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

PAUL HAD DELIVERED ORDINANCES TO CHURCHES
2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

THE HEAD OR AUTHORITY OVER THE WOMAN IS THE MAN
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

THEREFORE MEN MUST NOT COVER THEIR HEADS
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his Head [who is Christ].

BUT THE UNCOVERED WOMAN DISHONOURS HER HUSBAND
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

IT IS A SHAME FOR WOMEN TO NOT COVER THEIR HEADS
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

THE MAN IS THE IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

THE WOMAN IS OF (OR FOR) THE MAN
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

THE WOMAN (EVE) WAS CREATED FOR THE MAN (ADAM)
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

THAT IS WHY WOMEN MUST SHOW THE SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY ON THEIR HEADS
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. [Note: the Greek word exousia (translated "power" = authority and the head covering symbolizes the man's authority]

CHRISTIAN HUSBANDS AND WIVES COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

WHILE EVE CAME FROM ADAM'S RIB, MEN ARE BORN OF WOMEN
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

CHRISTIANS ARE TO JUDGE WHETHER UNCOVERED HEADS ARE ACCEPTABLE
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

NATURE PROVIDES A LESSON FOR SPIRITUAL APPLICATION
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT TO BE CONTENTIOUS ABOUT THIS
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom [of uncovered heads], neither the churches of God. [Note: all the apostolic churches held to the doctrine of women with covered heads during worship. And that custom continued until the early 20th century. But even now many churches require women to cover their heads during worship]

13: Paul was inviting others to judge for themselves and see that what he is writing is correct: It is not comely for women to pray with uncovered heads.

16: We have no such custom of arguing about it. The Scriptures are written with authority of God, and when plainly written as rule, they are not be argued about in their merits.

15: Hair is given to women as a covering of their heads. Vails, etc... are not necessary.

14. It is a shame for men to have long hair like a woman.

Length of hair is the one physical characteristic that God requires to make difference between man and woman. Men don't grow their hair long like women so that it covers their head, and women don't cut their hair short like men, so that their head is uncovered.

In Rev 9, the demon locusts had faces of men and the hair of women. I.e. long-haired men.

 

[robert derrick]

I will be happy to share the Scriptures which support my understanding of these issues. "Gender equality" as seen in Western societies comes from Satan.

THE DISTINCT ROLES OF MEN AND WOMEN
1. Within the Body of Christ (which is a spiritual entity), there are no distinctions, since all are children of God by faith in Christ: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26-28)

2. Within a marriage, the Christian man is the "head" or authority over the woman: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God... For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head [THE HEAD COVERING AS A SYMBOL OF SUBMISSION TO THE MAN'S AUTHORITY] because of the angels. (1 Cor 11:3,8-10)

3. Christian wives must submit themselves to their own husbands as unto the Lord: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

4. Christian women must maintain silence during Christian worship:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 14:34,35)

5. Christian women are forbidden to (1) preach, (2) teach, and (3) assume authority within the local church: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer [ALLOW] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved [SANCTIFIED] in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Tim 2:11-15)

As you can see, God has clearly stated the distinct roles of men and women, and Scripture is your final authority. As to Mary Magdalene, kindly examine ALL the resurrection accounts in all the Gospels, and then see where Mary stood.

The key guidance for how to be the head and how to be submissive is from 1 Cor 11:3

Men should behaves themselves as head of the woman, even as God behaves Himself as head of Christ, and the woman should submit to the head, even Christ submits to God.

There is no barefoot and naked in the kitchen rule over woman, and there is not dumb blonde submission under men. We are not knuckle-dragging cavemen and ignorant cave women: we are Christians.

The headship is for one thing, some one person must answer for the decisions made together. That's the man. Adam completely blew that, being the coward he was, and Eve at least got the serpent's part right.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Have you ever read in Genesis when God Created Man and woman. It says this:

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”

After the sinned they became Adam and Eve. The male and female was viewed the same.
But sin entered and changed things. Paul talks about how Eve was deceived and because of that her role was changed. Her desire was to be to Adam. You can read all of it in Genesis and what Paul writes about it.

 

[Daniel Veler]

13: Paul was inviting others to judge for themselves and see that what he is writing is correct: It is not comely for women to pray with uncovered heads.

16: We have no such custom of arguing about it. The Scriptures are written with authority of God, and when plainly written as rule, they are not be argued about in their merits.

15: Hair is given to women as a covering of their heads. Vails, etc... are not necessary.

14. It is a shame for men to have long hair like a woman.

Length of hair is the one physical characteristic that God requires to make difference between man and woman. Men don't grow their hair long like women so that it covers their head, and women don't cut their hair short like men, so that their head is uncovered.

In Rev 9, the demon locusts had faces of men and the hair of women. I.e. long-haired men.

do you remember that Paul and the other Apostles were arguing about what the Gentiles should observe or be imposed upon the Gentiles? They all met in Jerusalem to come to an agreement. This is what they concluded:
“For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To your disgrace and destruction when the Adversary is perverting words. Those who embrace 'equality' have lost discernment with being unequal in reality.

Think man! Think! What is the lesson from the Fall? The Adversary used equality with God as a primer for sin.

Well with all your faux spiritual vocabulary here, I am not even sure what you are trying to say. Men and woman have equal access to God, are equally saved and equally human, but woman are subordinate to their husbands.

They are limited in equality with men, but I hold to scripture as I have posted it. I think you are focusing too much on the nuance of words. What words has the adversary perverted. You help no one here when you post an allegation and then don't define it.

 

[Wrangler]

I am not even sure what you are trying to say. ... I think you are focusing too much on the nuance of words. What words has the adversary perverted. You help no one here when you post an allegation and then don't define it.

What part of "equating holy with unholy, right with wrong, good with evil is incorrect," do you not get? What part of "coveting is a sin," do you not get? I have repeatedly made the point crystal clear. Try answering the many questions posed below.

"Equality" is the word the adversary has perverted for as Aristotle said in 380 BC, The greatest inequality is to hold unequal things as equal. 'Equality' is a flawed Cultural Marxist political concept because it is held as true despite evidence to the contrary, despite all facts of existing inequality, any measurable differences and its true purpose is to impose communism.

Therefore, 'Equality' is a Spiritual attack on consciousness itself, undermining ones capacity of discernment. IMO, the success of Cultural Marxism is precisely that is appeals to ones emotions of being an oppressed/oppressor group, short cutting rational thought. The problem is not with what the groups are but the root concept of "Equality" is what is flawed. Again, consider the absurdity of 'equality' within groups?

• WOMEN DATING & JOB OPTIONS: Supermodels with college degrees v 200 pounds over weight not even GED.
• MEN IN NBA: > 6' tall & thin to <6' tall & fat.

Those who embrace 'equality' have lost discernment with being unequal in reality.

Think man! Think! What is the lesson from the Fall? The Adversary used equality with God as a primer for sin.

Beyond equal rights and equal protection under the law, there is no equality of value among people. Even in religion, in Christianity, there is the holy and the unholy, the saved and the damned.

The question you ask about value is the right question. As Ayn Rand pointed out, 'value' is a secondary concept, not a fundamental concept. Value always has to be understood in terms of a value to WHO - and for WHAT purpose.

One way to know we are not equal in value as far as being people goes is that jobs are not filled on a 1st come, 1st serve basis - especially those for dictator and other more lucrative roles. Under Cultural Marxism, terms are used for the purposes of being divisive. Consider the deliberately racist Black Lives Matter. Just as legitimate as White Lives Matter, right?

Exactly. You realize diversity and uniformity are antonyms?

"Equality" tempts us with the sin of coveting, pitting unequal groups to aspire for victory disguised as 'equality.' Don't forget that in math, 'equality' is a constraint. (Coins, quarters and pennies of an equal $ value are unequal in weight), right?

This thread is about 'equality' between 2 unequal groups. The problem with 'equality' can be seen even within groups.

• WOMEN DATING & JOB OPTIONS: Supermodels with college degrees v 200 pounds over weight not even GED.
• MEN IN NBA: > 6' tall & thin to <6' tall & fat.

It is so funny when people appeal to definitions in politics AS IF words are not used as weapons by the Left. Take feminism. Feminists assert the word means an advocate for 'equality' but we have many here who go to the ancient Greek or Hebrew. The root word for feminism is feminine, of women. So, feminism is synonymous with womanism. This fact is born out in their political agenda, which is to advance the cause of women. That men suffer from inequality with women in men dying younger, sexist laws putting men almost exclusively in jail (10 of 11) and unequal child custody in divorce is of no concern to these 'equality' seekers. If not, where is the evidence feminists seek to advance the cause of men suffering from inequality with women in the above areas?

"Equality" is a Cultural Marxist term designed to advance communism, which appeals to groups covetous nature.

We are not equally made. And we've covered this over and over again.

One way you know we are not equally made is Scripture tells us we are not equally the glory of the other. Man is the glory of God but women are the glory of men. What does this 1 Corinthians 11:7 Scripture verse mean to you in terms of equality?

God is a male Spirit deary. He is referred to as he or him about 5,000 x in Scripture because males create life. God is exclusively associated with the Father many times throughout Scripture, including ALL of the Epistles.

Well, now you've lowered yourself to personal attacks. For some reason, you have convinced yourself that not equal is inferiority. My wife says we were made to cooperate, not compete. A fork and a spoon are not equal but complement each other.

You sadly embrace the evil ideals of communism. I know you won't answer my question about the inequality/inferiority men suffer in regards to your feminist ideals regarding:

1. Men living shorter lives.
2. Sexist laws putting 10/11 men in prison.
3. Men not being represented equally in physical custody after divorce.​

Have a blessed day

 

[robert derrick]

Have you ever read in Genesis when God Created Man and woman. It says this:

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”

After the sinned they became Adam and Eve. The male and female was viewed the same.
But sin entered and changed things. Paul talks about how Eve was deceived and because of that her role was changed. Her desire was to be to Adam. You can read all of it in Genesis and what Paul writes about it.

And in Jesus the new Adam, we are returned to eating of the paradise of God and the tree of Life as overcomers (Rev 2:7).

So while we yet remain in our natural bodies, we do not remain in our naturally corrupt life. Headship remains for Christians, but not as before with sinners. We are not to abuse it nor rebel against it. It is a simple necessity in a corrupt world, where not all are saved, and many are against the faith and the life of Jesus.

And so, we are given power by God to behave ourselves in this world even as He does in heaven, 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...' Husbands be heads over your own wives in this world, even as God is head of Christ in heaven, and wives submit yourselves to your own husbands even as Christ submits to God.

Many people preach husbands are to be heads over the wives 'even as Christ is Head of the church' and stop there. And plenty of people have very messed up ideas about how Jesus acts as Head of the church. They only see a dominating Lordship and an often grudging obedience on pain of death, which is not the equally godly relationship with Christ and His Head God.

You telling me you never heard nor experienced abusive husbands upon the wife, with the excuse of being head and lord over her, as Jesus over His church? Or grudging rebellious wives who only 'obey', because of God's wrath?

Headship remains of necessity in this world for Christians, so that one of the two, the man, will be called to answer for all decisions they made mutually. And the reason for that is Eve was deceived in the transgression, but Adam was not. Adam knew exactly what was going on and failed to prevent it, but Eve really was convinced she would become as a god. Authority as head over another is a God-like authority that is not to be abused, and must be answered for by someone who knows what they are talking about, and is not deceived by the lure of acting like a god, the man.

 

[robert derrick]

do you remember that Paul and the other Apostles were arguing about what the Gentiles should observe or be imposed upon the Gentiles? They all met in Jerusalem to come to an agreement. This is what they concluded:
“For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye”

Yes, and?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What part of "equating holy with unholy, right with wrong, good with evil is incorrect," do you not get? What part of "coveting is a sin," do you not get? I have repeatedly made the point crystal clear. Try answering the many questions posed below.

"Equality" is the word the adversary has perverted for as Aristotle said in 380 BC, The greatest inequality is to hold unequal things as equal. 'Equality' is a flawed Cultural Marxist political concept because it is held as true despite evidence to the contrary, despite all facts of existing inequality, any measurable differences and its true purpose is to impose communism.

Therefore, 'Equality' is a Spiritual attack on consciousness itself, undermining ones capacity of discernment. IMO, the success of Cultural Marxism is precisely that is appeals to ones emotions of being an oppressed/oppressor group, short cutting rational thought. The problem is not with what the groups are but the root concept of "Equality" is what is flawed. Again, consider the absurdity of 'equality' within groups?

• WOMEN DATING & JOB OPTIONS: Supermodels with college degrees v 200 pounds over weight not even GED.
• MEN IN NBA: > 6' tall & thin to <6' tall & fat.

Well I do not equate holy with unhholy and all that other verbage you blathered about so that is moot!

I say men and women are equal, but I do not believe in equality as I have repeatedly said. I asked yo0u to define the difference you understand between equal and equality and you have failed to do so. so I am not sure why you have your panties in a knot!

Where men and women are equal: both are equally human. Both are sinners. both need to trust Christ as Savior. Both can equally approach the throne of god. both have equal forgiveness. Both have equal 2 arms.

Do men and women have total equality? I never have believed so. But if both do the same job, both should have equality in pay and benefits and respect.

Once again I view equal and equality as the definitions I posted and there is a big difference between the two!

One has to do with personhood, and one has to do with position in this discussion.

 

[Wrangler]

Well I do not equate holy with unhholy and all that other verbage you blathered about

You asked me to clarify and this is how you show your appreciation? Bless your heart!