What does born again mean?

[Episkopos]

The words "born again" are bantered about quite regularly in today's world, and this at a time when we see less and less power in the lives of those who profess this new birth.

Is there something missing from our understanding of what it means to be born again (born of the Spirit, born from above)?

 

[Charlie]

The words "born again" are bantered about quite regularly in today's world, and this at a time when we see less and less power in the lives of those who profess this new birth.

Is there something missing from our understanding of what it means to be born again (born of the Spirit, born from above)?

Dear Episkopos:

My understanding of "born again" is based on my belief there is spiritual life as well as physical life and man has a soul, which is spiritual, and a physical body.

When Adam and Eve sinned they died, spiritually, in that their souls no longer had spiritual life and they were cut off from direct communion with God. They still had souls, as did the males and females of the sixth day, but the children of Adam and Eve inherited their virtues so they had a moral sense and an awareness of God that made it difficult for Satanic forces to lead them astray.

Jesus Christ''s sacrifice made it possible for all who believe He is the Son of God and God raised Him from the dead to be saved so that, when their bodies die, their souls will go to heaven. This belief also makes it possible for their souls to be "born again" by the Spirit of God and they can then walk with God, in the spirit, and talk to Him in prayer.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[aspen]

I know what you mean.....it seems like some people believe the words are a magic ticket to eternal life. Being born again is a daily event - it occurs when you pick up your cross daily and follow Christ. It occurs when you practice your sanctification by loving God and neighbor. It occurs during daily prayer. It occurs when you are longing for God, throughout your day.

 

[Prentis]

The verse 'He who is born from above does not sin' (1 John 3) begs a few questions!!!

 

[rockytopva]

Referencing Plato's Republic...

The Three Children of "The Good" (God the Father)

1. Matter - Material form. The sun is E / c2 in the form of
plasma and is the visible form of "The Good."

2. Spirituality - Spiritual form. Spiritual warmth, love, faith,
joy, and hope set in a heart to do creative things.

3. Intelligence - Intellectual form. What directed the plasma
to cool into the respective elements.


In his Republic, Plato illustrates the doctrine of the divided line through an allegory of a cave in which Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows, which are the closest they get in viewing reality.


Having a prisoner released and journeying upward through the cave into the actual outdoors reflects the gaining of knowledge. Upon gazing at the sun he beholds the chief good and the purest form of light and energy. Having seen these things he then feels the responsibility of liberating his friends from their imprisoned minds. To become enlightened means to pass from opinion to enlightenment. To progress from what seems real to what is actually real.


"The business of us who are the founders of the State will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which we have already shown to be the greatest of all--they must continue to ascend until they arrive at the good; but when they have ascended and seen enough we must not allow them to do as they do now. What do you mean? I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not. But is not this unjust? he said; ought we to give them a worse life, when they might have a better? You have again forgotten, my friend, I said, the intention of the legislator, who did not aim at making any one class in the State happy above the rest; the happiness was to be in the whole State, and he held the citizens together by persuasion and necessity, making them benefactors of the State, and therefore benefactors of one another; to this end he created them, not to please themselves, but to be his instruments in binding up the State. Wherefore each of you, when his turn comes, must go down to the general underground abode, and get the habit of seeing in the dark. When you have acquired the habit, you will see ten thousand times better than the inhabitants of the den, and you will know what the several images are, and what they represent, because you have seen the beautiful and just and good in their truth." - Plato's Republic

To become born again means to escape the clutches of the den, journey outdoors, and catch the reality of the three children of the good... Spiritually, intellectually, and finally materially. Which journey is available to us through Jesus Christ our Lord. And finally, after beholding the Father's most magnificent light through Jesus Christ our Lord, we must not remain in the upper levels but take the journey back down to the cave and do our part to spread light to this darkened world.

 

[Episkopos]

Referencing Plato's Republic...

The Three Children of "The Good" (God the Father)

1. Matter - Material form. The sun is E / c2 in the form of
plasma and is the visible form of "The Good."

2. Spirituality - Spiritual form. Spiritual warmth, love, faith,
joy, and hope set in a heart to do creative things.

3. Intelligence - Intellectual form. What directed the plasma
to cool into the respective elements.


In his Republic, Plato illustrates the doctrine of the divided line through an allegory of a cave in which Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows, which are the closest they get in viewing reality.


Having a prisoner released and journeying upward through the cave into the actual outdoors reflects the gaining of knowledge. Upon gazing at the sun he beholds the chief good and the purest form of light and energy. Having seen these things he then feels the responsibility of liberating his friends from their imprisoned minds. To become enlightened means to pass from opinion to enlightenment. To progress from what seems real to what is actually real.


"The business of us who are the founders of the State will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which we have already shown to be the greatest of all--they must continue to ascend until they arrive at the good; but when they have ascended and seen enough we must not allow them to do as they do now. What do you mean? I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not. But is not this unjust? he said; ought we to give them a worse life, when they might have a better? You have again forgotten, my friend, I said, the intention of the legislator, who did not aim at making any one class in the State happy above the rest; the happiness was to be in the whole State, and he held the citizens together by persuasion and necessity, making them benefactors of the State, and therefore benefactors of one another; to this end he created them, not to please themselves, but to be his instruments in binding up the State. Wherefore each of you, when his turn comes, must go down to the general underground abode, and get the habit of seeing in the dark. When you have acquired the habit, you will see ten thousand times better than the inhabitants of the den, and you will know what the several images are, and what they represent, because you have seen the beautiful and just and good in their truth." - Plato's Republic

To become born again means to escape the clutches of the den, journey outdoors, and catch the reality of the three children of the good... Spiritually, intellectually, and finally materially. Which journey is available to us through Jesus Christ our Lord. And finally, after beholding the Father's most magnificent light through Jesus Christ our Lord, we must not remain in the upper levels but take the journey back down to the cave and do our part to spread light to this darkened world.

Wow! This is unexpected and good!

Please tell us where you think Plato got this understanding from?

 

[rockytopva]

Wow! This is unexpected and good!

Please tell us where you think Plato got this understanding from?

I believe that the golden age of philosophical teaching began with Solomon,

[sup]30[/sup]And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt. [sup]31[/sup]For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.

[sup]32[/sup]And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.

[sup]33[/sup]And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.

[sup]34[/sup]And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom. - 1 Kings 4:30, 31, 32, 33, 34




And this longing for 'heavenly wisdom' spread west into Greece and east into China. I believe that this was a golden age that lasted from about 1000 BC to about 200 BC. My personal favorites during this time was Plato, Lao-Tzu, and Confucius. It is important to note here that these teachings are non-religious... They deal with personal conduct and the value of light and energy.




In which I must importantly state here that... "There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." - Proverbs 21:30

 

[aspen]

I believe that the golden age of philosophical teaching began with Solomon,

[sup]30[/sup]And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt. [sup]31[/sup]For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.

[sup]32[/sup]And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.

[sup]33[/sup]And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.

[sup]34[/sup]And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom. - 1 Kings 4:30, 31, 32, 33, 34




And this longing for 'heavenly wisdom' spread west into Greece and east into China. I believe that this was a golden age that lasted from about 1000 BC to about 200 BC. My personal favorites during this time was Plato, Lao-Tzu, and Confucius. It is important to note here that these teachings are non-religious... They deal with personal conduct and the value of light and energy.




In which I must importantly state here that... "There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." - Proverbs 21:30

Rockytopva,

Every time I think I have you figured out, you surprise me! You listen to Joel Olsteen AND read Plato? You have the cheesiest scene from the cheesiest musical about Jesus on your website AND you are well read in the teachings of Lao-Tzu, and Confucius? You are sold on dispensationalism AND you present an interesting theory about Solomon? I am appalled AND intrigued at the same time! You must be an interesting person to talk with. I think I am going to have to friend you

 

[rockytopva]

Rockytopva,

Every time I think I have you figured out, you surprise me! You listen to Joel Olsteen AND read Plato? You have the cheesiest scene from the cheesiest musical about Jesus on your website AND you are well read in the teachings of Lao-Tzu, and Confucius? You are sold on dispensationalism AND you present an interesting theory about Solomon? I am appalled AND intrigued at the same time! You must be an interesting person to talk with. I think I am going to have to friend you

Thanks...

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52

 

[Holy Pursuit]

The words "born again" are bantered about quite regularly in today's world, and this at a time when we see less and less power in the lives of those who profess this new birth.

Is there something missing from our understanding of what it means to be born again (born of the Spirit, born from above)?

I have not read every post in this thread, but will in time, but I do believe there is something missing, when we are born again, our old man goes away and is replaced by the Life of Christ! We are to walk as Jesus walked and bear fruit. We are no longer sinners, but saints and we are called to be Holy as the Father is Holy. People do not believe the life in Christ we have can bring us to the point of true Holiness, but why would God call us to Holiness if we can not achieve it? We can, because it is no longer us living, but Christ living in us.

Jesus told the adultress lady to "sin no more", what does that mean? It means to sin no more!

We can overcome in this life because we are born again and are a new creation, we have the power of Christ!! Awesome!!

Blessings.

 

[Episkopos]

I have not read every post in this thread, but will in time, but I do believe there is something missing, when we are born again, our old man goes away and is replaced by the Life of Christ! We are to walk as Jesus walked and bear fruit. We are no longer sinners, but saints and we are called to be Holy as the Father is Holy. People do not believe the life in Christ we have can bring us to the point of true Holiness, but why would God call us to Holiness if we can not achieve it? We can, because it is no longer us living, but Christ living in us.

Jesus told the adultress lady to "sin no more", what does that mean? It means to sin no more!

We can overcome in this life because we are born again and are a new creation, we have the power of Christ!! Awesome!!

Blessings.

Very good!

 

[pilgrimjo]

Thanks...

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52

Great reply with appropriate scripture!

 

[Episkopos]

I have not read every post in this thread, but will in time, but I do believe there is something missing, when we are born again, our old man goes away and is replaced by the Life of Christ! We are to walk as Jesus walked and bear fruit. We are no longer sinners, but saints and we are called to be Holy as the Father is Holy. People do not believe the life in Christ we have can bring us to the point of true Holiness, but why would God call us to Holiness if we can not achieve it? We can, because it is no longer us living, but Christ living in us.

Jesus told the adultress lady to "sin no more", what does that mean? It means to sin no more!

We can overcome in this life because we are born again and are a new creation, we have the power of Christ!! Awesome!!

Blessings.

HP, Could you expand a little more on your experience of this? How do you think the Christian walk is to be undertaken, keeping in mind what you have said! What is this process of holiness?

Thanks

John

Dear Episkopos:

My understanding of "born again" is based on my belief there is spiritual life as well as physical life and man has a soul, which is spiritual, and a physical body.

When Adam and Eve sinned they died, spiritually, in that their souls no longer had spiritual life and they were cut off from direct communion with God. They still had souls, as did the males and females of the sixth day, but the children of Adam and Eve inherited their virtues so they had a moral sense and an awareness of God that made it difficult for Satanic forces to lead them astray.

Jesus Christ''s sacrifice made it possible for all who believe He is the Son of God and God raised Him from the dead to be saved so that, when their bodies die, their souls will go to heaven. This belief also makes it possible for their souls to be "born again" by the Spirit of God and they can then walk with God, in the spirit, and talk to Him in prayer.

God Bless you. Charlie

Hi Charlie, and thanks for your response.

Do you think that one can only receive the divine nature when one has received the new body to contain it in?

In other words do you believe we can contain a spiritual life and nature in these mortal bodies?

 

[Holy Pursuit]

HP, Could you expand a little more on your experience of this? How do you think the Christian walk is to be undertaken, keeping in mind what you have said! What is this process of holiness?

Thanks

John

Our walk needs to be done faithfully and obediently. I think when the Bible tells us we should be Holy, we are to take on Christ's name and nature, His attributes and His character. Holiness is loving God, being faithful to God, and in that is righteousness, which would be the ability to love others as ourselves. We are being transformed by the renewing of our minds, so the more we are walking in the Spirit, the more we are conforming to Him.

My experience is - people will tell me I am wrong. :lol:

My experience is when I sin, I am convicted, I repent, and that sin is gone. I have gotten older, my sins have decreased and in doing so my Holiness, hopefully has increased. Not sure if that answered your question.

 

[Episkopos]

Our walk needs to be done faithfully and obediently. I think when the Bible tells us we should be Holy, we are to take on Christ's name and nature, His attributes and His character. Holiness is loving God, being faithful to God, and in that is righteousness, which would be the ability to love others as ourselves. We are being transformed by the renewing of our minds, so the more we are walking in the Spirit, the more we are conforming to Him.

My experience is - people will tell me I am wrong. :lol:

My experience is when I sin, I am convicted, I repent, and that sin is gone. I have gotten older, my sins have decreased and in doing so my Holiness, hopefully has increased. Not sure if that answered your question.

Ok That's good! Just wanted to clarify for the sake of others on this thread who may wish to better understanding what is meant by holiness and a spiritual walk.

How about loving through His divine love...in resurrection power...seeing as He saw, acting as He acted in the world?

Do you think that this is a process that takes a lifetime, or is it something we can experience right away through the death of the old man nature in a quickening experience of grace?

 

[Holy Pursuit]

Ok That's good! Just wanted to clarify for the sake of others on this thread who may wish to better understanding what is meant by holiness and a spiritual walk.

How about loving through His divine love...in resurrection power...seeing as He saw, acting as He acted in the world?

Do you think that this is a process that takes a lifetime, or is it something we can experience right away through the death of the old man nature in a quickening experience of grace?

We can experience it now.
If we have His nature, we are loving as He loves, walking as He does, doing what He is doing. We are simply His vessel, being His Body, and so if we are walking a Spirit led life, He is doing the work in us, through faith.

 

[Charlie]

Hi Charlie, and thanks for your response.

Do you think that one can only receive the divine nature when one has received the new body to contain it in?

In other words do you believe we can contain a spiritual life and nature in these mortal bodies?

You are welcome, my friend.

The fact is everyone who is alive has the spirit of physical life in the blood of the body and their soul is a spiritual entity. Their soul can be "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God.

When God made Adam, because there was not a man to till the ground, after He rested on the 7th day, God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Adam's soul was given spiritual life. (The males and females of the 7th day had souls in their bodies but their souls did not have spiritual life in them.)

When God made Eve from the rib of Adam she also had a living soul. When they sinned and died, they died spiritually, their souls were no longer living souls.

That is why it is necessary for the soul of the believer to be born again, spiritually, by the Spirit of God.

My answer to your question, therefore, is "a spiritual life?", yes; a "spiritual nature?", I'm not sure what you mean by "a spiritual nature".

God Bless you. Charlie ,

 

[Episkopos]

You are welcome, my friend.

The fact is everyone who is alive has the spirit of physical life in the blood of the body and their soul is a spiritual entity. Their soul can be "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God.

When God made Adam, because there was not a man to till the ground, after He rested on the 7th day, God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Adam's soul was given spiritual life. (The males and females of the 7th day had souls in their bodies but their souls did not have spiritual life in them.)

When God made Eve from the rib of Adam she also had a living soul. When they sinned and died, they died spiritually, their souls were no longer living souls.

That is why it is necessary for the soul of the believer to be born again, spiritually, by the Spirit of God.

My answer to your question, therefore, is "a spiritual life?", yes; a "spiritual nature?", I'm not sure what you mean by "a spiritual nature".

God Bless you. Charlie ,

Thanks!

I see it that the soul is alive until it is destroyed in the lake of fire...or continues to live. It is the spirit in a man that is quickened or not. Maybe it's just terminology.

When Adam sinned he died spiritualyy, meaning his spirit was separated from his soul.

I see man as a three part being.

The spirit, soul and body.

The spirit is quickened when we are born again of the Spirit. If we follow the Spirit then we will save our souls. The body is a temporary container oe tent that houses the soul in this life.

The soul needs to obey or be powered by a nature. Either the old nature we are born with. Or the divine nature we receive from God in the Spirit.

So our spirits contain the Holy Spirit. The old nature is the power of the flesh although it is not the physical flesh itself. Our souls must be empowered from the Spirit or the old nature that is the power of the flesh.

Hope that makes sense!

Thoughts?

 

[lawrance]

<br />I know what you mean.....it seems like some people believe the words are a magic ticket to eternal life.  Being born again is a daily event - it occurs when you pick up your cross daily and follow Christ.  It occurs when you practice your sanctification by loving God and neighbor. It occurs during daily prayer.  It occurs when you are longing for God, throughout your day.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes aspen i say that is true.

But my christian fundamentalist buddy says it's a one time event and once you are that's it you are saved and you can run around and kill who ever or do what ever you want and you are saved as you can not loose it. jesus payed the price and once saved always saved ? then you can get baptised but only after you get saved.
He has been informed by his gurus that supports narrow mindedness as a virtue ? and he thinks Latin has no place at all but only English is gods word. i said if a medical Doctor only knew English i would think he would not be competent to work on a dog as English can be so vague.
Does any other funey belive support that possition.

So maybe what could we say if the heading said what does born again not mean.

 

[nomerhunks]

The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above." New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes, indicates that "born again" also carries the idea "to become children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.