What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

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Charlie24

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Good Question.

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

That is not correct, Peterlag! Adam was created body and soul in the image of God. Through sin, man is now born in the image of Adam.

That will not change until the resurrection when sin is completely done away with in the body.

Man that sins, and that would be all of us, cannot and is not the image of God. We are not in His likeness until we are back at His original creation with no sin!
 
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Peterlag

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That is not correct, Peterlag! Adam was created body and soul in the image of God. Through sin, man is now born in the image of Adam.

That will not change until the resurrection when sin is completely done away with in the body.

Man that sins, and that would be all of us, cannot and is not the image of God. We are not in His likeness until we are back at His original creation with no sin!

Speak for yourself. I have no sin. Have you not read the Scriptures where it says...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9
 

Charlie24

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Speak for yourself. I have no sin. Have you not read the Scriptures where it says...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

You do not understand the Scripture, Peterlag! You've got some seriously messed up theology going on here!

I've noticed that you are confused over many things. I suggest you read 1 John again and carefully.
 

Peterlag

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1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

You do not understand the Scripture, Peterlag! You've got some seriously messed up theology going on here!

I've noticed that you are confused over many things. I suggest you read 1 John again and carefully.

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.
 

Charlie24

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A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

With theories like that I can see how you are a member of the elite sinless clan. The better than the rest of us crowd.

You've accomplished what the great apostle Paul said he had not done. Are you deity, should we worship you guys?

It seems to me that if you have no sin, you have graduated from being a human.
 

Kermos

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The verse does not say he created absolutely everything without exception. It says all things and then names "thrones, powers, rulers and authorities".

You are LYING because Paul wrote all things FIRST then Paul mentioned non-exclusive and non-limiting list of "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" as a SECOND then Paul emphasizes all things again after the list as a THIRD when he wrote "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16).

Paul wrote absolutely clearly that Jesus created absolutely everything without exception including thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.

Paul is in accord with John who wrote "all things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).

Apostolic testimony is that Jesus is uncreated.

Apostolic testimony is that Jesus is YHWH God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14).

YOU ARE OUT OF ACCORD WITH APOSTOLIC TESTIMONY!

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!
 

Peterlag

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With theories like that I can see how you are a member of the elite sinless clan. The better than the rest of us crowd.

You've accomplished what the great apostle Paul said he had not done. Are you deity, should we worship you guys?

It seems to me that if you have no sin, you have graduated from being a human.

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."
 

Charlie24

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Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

Peterlag, you seem to be a responsible grown up that should know that we all make mistakes that sometimes result in sin. I can go along with a person having no known sin in their life, that means no practicing sin, but to claim no sin at all is not realistic, actually it's childish considering nowhere in Scripture is this taught. Paul didn't say we can reach sinless perfection, he said sin will not have dominion over us.

When Peter said, "for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin" is referring to the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. There is no victory in trying to overcome sin through the efforts of the flesh, victory only comes by total dependence on Christ through the Spirit. If we take part in the suffering of Christ, as He suffered for us, sin will not have dominion over us. We will have the victory over the sin nature.

This is referring to the sin nature being neutralized, it's walking in the Spirit and the sin nature will not have dominion over us. If we attempt to overcome by our own doing, that is when the sin nature comes alive and takes control.

If you can't find the sin nature in Scripture, just say so, I will show you.
 

Peterlag

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Peterlag, you seem to be a responsible grown up that should know that we all make mistakes that sometimes result in sin. I can go along with a person having no known sin in their life, that means no practicing sin, but to claim no sin at all is not realistic, actually it's childish considering nowhere in Scripture is this taught. Paul didn't say we can reach sinless perfection, he said sin will not have dominion over us.

When Peter said, "for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin" is referring to the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. There is no victory in trying to overcome sin through the efforts of the flesh, victory only comes by total dependence on Christ through the Spirit. If we take part in the suffering of Christ, as He suffered for us, sin will not have dominion over us. We will have the victory over the sin nature.

This is referring to the sin nature being neutralized, it's walking in the Spirit and the sin nature will not have dominion over us. If we attempt to overcome by our own doing, that is when the sin nature comes alive and takes control.

If you can't find the sin nature in Scripture, just say so, I will show you.

I did not write this but I can read...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
 

Kermos

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@Peterlag

A fool says Jesus didn't create all things thus the fool rejects Jesus unto everlasting punishment for the fool.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle Paul wrote that by Jesus "all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible" (Colossians 1:16) because your heart restricts the created things to exclusively "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" (Colossians 1:16), thus Paul declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, and the Creator is YHWH God.

You reject clear prose by Paul that Jesus created absolutely all things via your heart's treasure that Jesus ONLY created "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities", so you reject the greater emphasis on "all things" in Colossians 1:16.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle John not only wrote that the Word was with God but John continued that "the Word was God" in John 1:1 thus proclaiming Jesus is God, so this means the Word is the person of Jesus who manifested flesh and sojourned among men (John 1:14), thus John declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator (John1:1-5), and the Creator is YHWH God (Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 3:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!
 

Charlie24

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I did not write this but I can read...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

1 John 3:9

" Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (does not practice sin); for his seed remaineth in him (the Word of God is in this person): and he cannot sin (cannot continue to practice sin), because he is born of God (The believer hates the sin, it grieves the heart)."

The true believer hates the sin in their life. Eventually that sin will be overcome but only by faith in Christ, which allows the Holy Spirit to do His work to take it away. It comes quicker for some than others.

There are several examples in Scripture where you can see the believer sinning less and less. This is due to a growing faith, not in self, but in Christ.
 

Peterlag

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And the "whosoever" is the Born Again Spirit. = as that is the "sinneth not".

And it makes perfect sense since I'm in the spirit and having fellowship with God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Peterlag

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1 John 3:9

" Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (does not practice sin); for his seed remaineth in him (the Word of God is in this person): and he cannot sin (cannot continue to practice sin), because he is born of God (The believer hates the sin, it grieves the heart)."

The true believer hates the sin in their life. Eventually that sin will be overcome but only by faith in Christ, which allows the Holy Spirit to do His work to take it away. It comes quicker for some than others.

There are several examples in Scripture where you can see the believer sinning less and less. This is due to a growing faith, not in self, but in Christ.

You show me one verse that says the spirit is (the Word of God in the person) and I will start myself on fire and throw myself in front of a Mack truck and then you will be free of me.
 

Peterlag

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@Peterlag

A fool says Jesus didn't create all things thus the fool rejects Jesus unto everlasting punishment for the fool.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle Paul wrote that by Jesus "all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible" (Colossians 1:16) because your heart restricts the created things to exclusively "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" (Colossians 1:16), thus Paul declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, and the Creator is YHWH God.

You reject clear prose by Paul that Jesus created absolutely all things via your heart's treasure that Jesus ONLY created "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities", so you reject the greater emphasis on "all things" in Colossians 1:16.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle John not only wrote that the Word was with God but John continued that "the Word was God" in John 1:1 thus proclaiming Jesus is God, so this means the Word is the person of Jesus who manifested flesh and sojourned among men (John 1:14), thus John declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator (John1:1-5), and the Creator is YHWH God (Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 3:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

I do not agree with your above statement. I think your concept came by way of the Catholic doctrine that first went public at the Nicene Creed in 325 AD and modified later around the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state such a concept.
 

Behold

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And it makes perfect sense since I'm in the spirit and having fellowship with God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Being in the spirit is not discipleship.

And having fellowship with God and Christ is not based on behavior or deeds.

 

Charlie24

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You show me one verse that says the spirit is (the Word of God in the person) and I will start myself on fire and throw myself in front of a Mack truck and then you will be free of me.

No, you're looking for argument, not truth! That's not what I said!

"For his seed remains in him" is referring to the Word of God being planted in the believer.

In Luke 8:11, when Christ gave the parable of the sower, did not He say "the seed is the Word of God?"
 

Behold

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You show me one verse that says the spirit is (the Word of God in the person) and I will start myself on fire and throw myself in front of a Mack truck and then you will be free of me.

"Christ is THAT Spirit". "And where the Spirit of Christ is, there is Liberty".

"That Spirit" is the Holy Spirit.

Christ told 11 Apostles....>"receive ye the Holy Spirit".......and only God can give the Holy Spirit.

The born again are the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

"Christ in you, (the Holy Spirit) is the Hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven).
 

Charlie24

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"Christ is THAT Spirit". "And where the Spirit of Christ is, there is Liberty".

"That Spirit" is the Holy Spirit.

Christ told 11 Apostles....>"receive ye the Holy Spirit".......and only God can give the Holy Spirit.

The born again are the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

"Christ in you, (the Holy Spirit) is the Hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven).

He's just trying to sidetrack with an argument to get out of it.

He knows his theology is messed up, just won't admit it.
 

Davy

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It's important to note the context of the verse and why it's written and placed where it is. Reading the book of Colossians reveals that the Colossians Church had lost its focus on Christ. Some of the believers at Colosse had in practice forsaken their connection with the head who is Jesus Christ, and some were even being led to worship angels (2:18-19). The situation in Colosse called for a strong reminder of Christ's headship over his Church and the Epistle to the Colossians provided just that. There is no definitive reason to believe the believers in Colosse were Trinitarian. A thorough reading of Acts shows that no Apostle or teacher in Acts ever presented the Trinity on their witnessing itineraries. Instead they presented that Jesus was "...a man approved of God..." (Acts 2:22), God's "servant Jesus" (Acts 3:13), God's "Prince" (Acts 5:31), the "one anointed" (Acts 10:38), the "Son of God" (Acts 9:20). Acts has no presentation to new Christians that Jesus was God, nor was there any formal presentation of the Trinity and Colosse was reached with the Word during the Acts period. This is an important background because Trinitarians read Colossians about Christ creating and think it refers to Jesus creating the earth in the beginning.

People are often confused by Colossians 1:16 because it says "For by him [Jesus] all things were created..." When we read the word "create" we usually think about the original creation in Genesis, but there are other ways the word is used in Scripture. For example, Christians are "new creations" (2 Corinthians 5:17). After the resurrection, God delegated to Christ the authority to create, and when we read the Epistles we see evidence of Jesus creating things for his Church. Ephesians 2:15 refers to Christ creating "one new man" (his Body, the Church) out of Jew and Gentile. In pouring out the gift of holy spirit to each believer (Acts 2:33 and 38). The Lord Jesus has created something new in each of them, which is the "new man" their new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15; Ephesians 4:24). Not only did Jesus create his Church out of Jew and Gentile, he had to create the structure and positions that would allow it to function, both in the spiritual world (positions for the angels that would minister to the Church... see Revelation 1:1 "his angel"). And in the physical world (positions and ministries here on earth... see Romans 12:4-8; Ephesians 4:7-11). The Bible describes these physical and spiritual realities by the phrase, "...things in heaven and on the earth, visible and invisible. Jesus was not around in the beginning to create the heavens and the earth, but he did create the "all things" that pertain to his Body, which is the Church of God.

We are in a position to more fully understand verse 16 once we understand that Jesus created things for the Church. The word "all" is used in the Bible in a limited sense just the way we also use it today. My wife told me the kids ate all the cookies. She did not mean the kids ate all the cookies in the world, but rather just the cookies that were in the house. 2 Samuel 17:14 says "...all the men of Israel..." agreed on advice when Absalom held a council against his father David. "All" the men of Israel did not agree with Absalom, but all the men who were there with him did. Jeremiah 26:8 says "all the people" seized Jeremiah to put him to death. All the people did not mean all the people on the planet, but rather all the people who were there. Understand? One must determine from the context if "all" is being used in the wide sense of "all in the universe" or in the narrow sense of "all in a specific" context. I believe the narrow sense is being applied in Colossians 1:16 when it says Jesus created "all" things for his Church and not "all" things in the universe.

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

All the things "created" in this list are not the earth and trees and sky that God created in the beginning, but rather the "thrones, powers, rulers and authorities, which are the positions that Christ needed to run his Church, which he created for that purpose because these are the things Jesus needed to administer his Church. The Colossians believers had lost their focus on Christ as the head of the Church and Colossians 1:16 elevates Christ to his rightful position as Lord by noting that he was the one who created the powers and authorities in the Church.
Nah, just stick to the simplicity written in The Scriptures and stop trying to create some new fad teaching that is not written.

When Paul said all things were created by Him, meaning Jesus Christ, that is meant about God's creation, and that is exactly how Paul meant it.

Col 1:16-17
16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:
17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
KJV


Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, Immanuel (God with us).
 
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