What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

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Behold

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He's just trying to sidetrack with an argument to get out of it.

He knows his theology is messed up, just won't admit it.

Its actually even more simple, even than that, tho what you wrote is true.
He's just trolling so that His Thread keeps going.
Nothing new.
 

Peterlag

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Nah, just stick to the simplicity written in The Scriptures and stop trying to create some new fad teaching that is not written.

When Paul said all things were created by Him, meaning Jesus Christ, that is meant about God's creation, and that is exactly how Paul meant it.

Col 1:16-17
16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:
17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
KJV


Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, Immanuel (God with us).

I will rewrite what I wrote earlier.

Colossians 1:16
For by him (him is lower case in my Bible) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, or planets, or oceans, or the sun, or the moon, or the stars: all things were created by him, (him is in lower case in my Bible) and for him: (him is in lower case in my Bible).
 

Peterlag

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"Christ is THAT Spirit". "And where the Spirit of Christ is, there is Liberty".

"That Spirit" is the Holy Spirit.

Christ told 11 Apostles....>"receive ye the Holy Spirit".......and only God can give the Holy Spirit.

The born again are the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

"Christ in you, (the Holy Spirit) is the Hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven).

You lost me. Do you have a verse?
 

Peterlag

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No, you're looking for argument, not truth! That's not what I said!

"For his seed remains in him" is referring to the Word of God being planted in the believer.

In Luke 8:11, when Christ gave the parable of the sower, did not He say "the seed is the Word of God?"

The seed in Luke belongs to that parable. We cannot say that every seed after a parable that someone said is now the Word of God.
 

Peterlag

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Being in the spirit is not discipleship.

And having fellowship with God and Christ is not based on behavior or deeds.


Again, you lost me. I can't understand your point. May I ask you a personal question? Would that be okay?
 

Kermos

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I do not agree with your above statement. I think your concept came by way of the Catholic doctrine that first went public at the Nicene Creed in 325 AD and modified later around the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state such a concept.

Then you "do not agree with" the King's statement "these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46), so you are very out of accord with the King of Glory!

In the following links, we can see were you reject that Jesus is I AM as well as not receiving the sayings of Jesus Christ, and the King says this about His own sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

A fool says Jesus didn't create all things thus the fool rejects Jesus unto everlasting punishment for the fool.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle Paul wrote that by Jesus "all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible" (Colossians 1:16) because your heart restricts the created things to exclusively "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" (Colossians 1:16), thus Paul declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, and the Creator is YHWH God.

You reject clear prose by Paul that Jesus created absolutely all things via your heart's treasure that Jesus ONLY created "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities", so you reject the greater emphasis on "all things" in Colossians 1:16.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle John not only wrote that the Word was with God but John continued that "the Word was God" in John 1:1 thus proclaiming Jesus is God, so this means the Word is the person of Jesus who manifested flesh and sojourned among men (John 1:14), thus John declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator (John1:1-5), and the Creator is YHWH God (Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 3:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!
 

Kermos

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@Peterlag

A fool says Jesus didn't create all things thus the fool rejects Jesus unto everlasting punishment for the fool.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle Paul wrote that by Jesus "all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible" (Colossians 1:16) because your heart restricts the created things to exclusively "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" (Colossians 1:16), thus Paul declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, and the Creator is YHWH God.

You reject clear prose by Paul that Jesus created absolutely all things via your heart's treasure that Jesus ONLY created "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities", so you reject the greater emphasis on "all things" in Colossians 1:16.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle John not only wrote that the Word was with God but John continued that "the Word was God" in John 1:1 thus proclaiming Jesus is God, so this means the Word is the person of Jesus who manifested flesh and sojourned among men (John 1:14), thus John declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator (John1:1-5), and the Creator is YHWH God (Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 3:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!
 

Peterlag

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Then you "do not agree with" the King's statement "these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46), so you are very out of accord with the King of Glory!

In the following links, we can see were you reject that Jesus is I AM as well as not receiving the sayings of Jesus Christ, and the King says this about His own sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

A fool says Jesus didn't create all things thus the fool rejects Jesus unto everlasting punishment for the fool.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle Paul wrote that by Jesus "all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible" (Colossians 1:16) because your heart restricts the created things to exclusively "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities" (Colossians 1:16), thus Paul declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, and the Creator is YHWH God.

You reject clear prose by Paul that Jesus created absolutely all things via your heart's treasure that Jesus ONLY created "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities", so you reject the greater emphasis on "all things" in Colossians 1:16.

Your heart eliminates that the Apostle John not only wrote that the Word was with God but John continued that "the Word was God" in John 1:1 thus proclaiming Jesus is God, so this means the Word is the person of Jesus who manifested flesh and sojourned among men (John 1:14), thus John declares that Jesus is the uncreated Creator (John1:1-5), and the Creator is YHWH God (Genesis 1:1 - Genesis 3:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

The Old Testament is filled with data on the savior who would come who would be the messiah. All those years the Jewish people wrote about the messiah who would come. Nobody ever spoke a word about God coming. Don't know think that is odd?
 

Ronald Nolette

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It's important to note the context of the verse and why it's written and placed where it is. Reading the book of Colossians reveals that the Colossians Church had lost its focus on Christ. Some of the believers at Colosse had in practice forsaken their connection with the head who is Jesus Christ, and some were even being led to worship angels (2:18-19). The situation in Colosse called for a strong reminder of Christ's headship over his Church and the Epistle to the Colossians provided just that. There is no definitive reason to believe the believers in Colosse were Trinitarian. A thorough reading of Acts shows that no Apostle or teacher in Acts ever presented the Trinity on their witnessing itineraries. Instead they presented that Jesus was "...a man approved of God..." (Acts 2:22), God's "servant Jesus" (Acts 3:13), God's "Prince" (Acts 5:31), the "one anointed" (Acts 10:38), the "Son of God" (Acts 9:20). Acts has no presentation to new Christians that Jesus was God, nor was there any formal presentation of the Trinity and Colosse was reached with the Word during the Acts period. This is an important background because Trinitarians read Colossians about Christ creating and think it refers to Jesus creating the earth in the beginning.

People are often confused by Colossians 1:16 because it says "For by him [Jesus] all things were created..." When we read the word "create" we usually think about the original creation in Genesis, but there are other ways the word is used in Scripture. For example, Christians are "new creations" (2 Corinthians 5:17). After the resurrection, God delegated to Christ the authority to create, and when we read the Epistles we see evidence of Jesus creating things for his Church. Ephesians 2:15 refers to Christ creating "one new man" (his Body, the Church) out of Jew and Gentile. In pouring out the gift of holy spirit to each believer (Acts 2:33 and 38). The Lord Jesus has created something new in each of them, which is the "new man" their new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15; Ephesians 4:24). Not only did Jesus create his Church out of Jew and Gentile, he had to create the structure and positions that would allow it to function, both in the spiritual world (positions for the angels that would minister to the Church... see Revelation 1:1 "his angel"). And in the physical world (positions and ministries here on earth... see Romans 12:4-8; Ephesians 4:7-11). The Bible describes these physical and spiritual realities by the phrase, "...things in heaven and on the earth, visible and invisible. Jesus was not around in the beginning to create the heavens and the earth, but he did create the "all things" that pertain to his Body, which is the Church of God.

We are in a position to more fully understand verse 16 once we understand that Jesus created things for the Church. The word "all" is used in the Bible in a limited sense just the way we also use it today. My wife told me the kids ate all the cookies. She did not mean the kids ate all the cookies in the world, but rather just the cookies that were in the house. 2 Samuel 17:14 says "...all the men of Israel..." agreed on advice when Absalom held a council against his father David. "All" the men of Israel did not agree with Absalom, but all the men who were there with him did. Jeremiah 26:8 says "all the people" seized Jeremiah to put him to death. All the people did not mean all the people on the planet, but rather all the people who were there. Understand? One must determine from the context if "all" is being used in the wide sense of "all in the universe" or in the narrow sense of "all in a specific" context. I believe the narrow sense is being applied in Colossians 1:16 when it says Jesus created "all" things for his Church and not "all" things in the universe.

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

All the things "created" in this list are not the earth and trees and sky that God created in the beginning, but rather the "thrones, powers, rulers and authorities, which are the positions that Christ needed to run his Church, which he created for that purpose because these are the things Jesus needed to administer his Church. The Colossians believers had lost their focus on Christ as the head of the Church and Colossians 1:16 elevates Christ to his rightful position as Lord by noting that he was the one who created the powers and authorities in the Church.
For your flowery prose here, it got sidetracked.

What teh verse means is exactly what it says!

Jesus created everything in the universe! Why do people feel they need to reinterpret the Word of God?
 
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Peterlag

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For your flowery prose here, it got sidetracked.

What teh verse means is exactly what it says!

Jesus created everything in the universe! Why do people feel they need to reinterpret the Word of God?

It does not say everything in the universe. It does not say oceans, planets, stars and the universe. You say that. The Bible does not say that. It says thrones or powers or rulers or authorities.
 

Enoch111

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It does not say everything in the universe. It does not say oceans, planets, stars and the universe. You say that. The Bible does not say that. It says thrones or powers or rulers or authorities.
So you are going to split hairs because one passage emphasizes one aspect of creation while another passage focuses on something else. Bottom line:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST CREATED THE UNIVERSE?
 

Peterlag

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So you are going to split hairs because one passage emphasizes one aspect of creation while another passage focuses on something else. Bottom line:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST CREATED THE UNIVERSE?
No I do not. How could he have created the universe before he was born. And he had no power of his own when he was on the earth.
 

Heart2Soul

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This thread violates the latest rule established recently to ban all Trinity/anti-trinity threads.
It is now closed.
 
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