Karl Peters
Well-Known Member
While we often read repentance and forgiveness together, they are still two separate things, and they don't have to go together!Forgiveness is shown to us by how God and Jesus forgive.
Before God or Jesus forgives us there has to be repentance, then there is forgiveness.
This is a hard thing to understand.
All through the bible in the old testament the Jews would sin and to gain ritual forgiveness they would go to the temple to offer a sacrifice for their sin, laying a hand on the ani als head as it was killed.
They learnt that forgiveness followed repentance.
This is seen in the new testament see Luke17:3 + 4.
If your brother sins against you rebuke them and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin seven times a day and seven times come back to you saying ' I repent ' you must forgive them.
Jesus on the cross did not forgive his killers, rather he prayed for them, as did Stephen when he was stoned to death.
They show us how we should deal with those who have offended against us and have not repented.
We are to pray for them, telling God all about it and opening ourselves up to the Spirits guidance.
How do we pray for them. We are to pray for there good. To pray regularly and intelligently for there well being.
Mat 18:21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
There is no mention of repentance above, just forgiveness!!
So if we look at that verse and Luke 17:3,4 we find one verse say if they repent and forgive them, we can't come up to the conclusion that repentance is absolutely need before you forgive someone. It takes a small jump in logic to make the conclusion that Windmillcharge makes.
Luke 5:24 “But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,”—He said to the paralytic—“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.”
Where exactly is the repentance in the above story? It is not there, but forgiveness is done by Jesus in order "so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and thus not because the man repented!!!!!!
To often I see Christians read one passage in the Bible and make and overall application of their new theology!!
Exodus 32:29 Then Moses said, “Dedicate yourselves today to the LORD—for every man has been against his son and against his brother—in order that He may bestow a blessing upon you today. On the next day Moses said to the people, “You yourselves have committed a great sin; and now I am going up to the LORD, perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.”
Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, “Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. “But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” The LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
In the above verses we see that the people dedicated themselves to the Lord and Moses then went to the Lord with repentance on behalf of the people (Alas, this people has committed a great sin) yet that was not good enough to forgive them at that time.
God's personality does not change, so what happened? It was the problem that the people were not willing to enter into a personal relationship with the Lord for themselves!!!
Exodus 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.”
Those people did not want to hear from the Lord for themselves. So they wanted Moses to do their talking with the Lord, instead of seeking the Lord for themselves!! On the other hand the paralytic got himself present to the Lord, so even though he did repent he got his sins forgiven.
So what is the importance of "repentance"? It tell you that we sinners won't seek the Lord until we come to the realization that we are sinners and don't know the right thing to do. When we realize that we sinners need the Lord, we seek Him. That realization tends to come with repentance, but the paralytic sought Him for healing not because of repentance. Those people repented and sent Moses to seek the Lord for forgiveness, but they were unwilling to seek the Lord for themselves, so they did not seek the Lord by hearing Him with faith!
And we can say we repent, like them, but still not actually open up to His voice and words to us personally, which we hearing near us by faith!! Is that going to help you? His sheep hear His voice!!
Rev 3:19 - 22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
The fact is that the Lord does reprove us because He loves us. If we are willing to accept His reproof, we should accept it, consider it, then become zealous for Him and repent of what we are doing. The "repentance" should humble us and cause us to be zealous for Him, That should get you get us to seek Him and thus "HEAR" his voice personally! He then is going to come into you and talk to you, because He is naturally a forgiving person. He is like that because He wants that personal relationship with you personally!! So He forgives those who really are seeking Him, but not for those who are pretending to want to know Him, when they don't.
Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;
It is not about whether a person says they repent, or say they are dedicated to the Lord, Forgiveness from the Lord is for people who want a personal relationship with Him. Therefore, when someone comes and ask you to forgive them to repair a relationship you need to forgive them. If they say "Forgive me", but it is just said out of some religious tradition or practice, but they don't really mean it to repair relationships, even a minor one like with a customer or a random person you might have offended and didn't want to personally offend them. The heart matters, and the Lord judges the heart!