What does it mean to be born again?

[stunnedbygrace]

Is that your interpretation of many are called, few chosen?

No…

Is this how we ought to be, void of, or in the Spirit? Full of courage/bravery/boldness and fear of the Lord.

The first sentence I do not understand what you’re asking.
I would imagine if you walk in the Spirit, in His love, where there is no sin, that there would be no fear.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

All very subjective!

Are we supposed to understand what you’re saying there…? Lol

 

[Johann]

The first sentence I do not understand what you’re asking.

Can a Christian be devoid/void of the Spirit and still be a Christian?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Can a Christian be devoid/void of the Spirit and still be a Christian?

Not sure where that question came from but…if a man doesn’t have even the down payment of the Spirit, he does not belong to God. That is how I read it.

 

[Johann]

Not sure where that question came from but…if a man doesn’t have even the down payment of the Spirit, he does not belong to God. That is how I read it.

And you have the down payment of the Holy Spirit, yes?

If so, how do you know it?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What is this "correct balance?"

One mistake in holiness and you're "out?

To not be frozen in fear because of that. And to take some courage in the fact that if you fail in holiness all will not be lost and you will still be accepted and a place made for you if you stay humble, don’t judge, forgive.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And you have the down payment of the Holy Spirit, yes?

If so, how do you know it?

That’s difficult to explain…I could do it by my testimony but can think of no other way. I can think of one other way and one earthly thing to compare it to but I think it would offend too many people in the same way that the Song of Solomon offends some.

 

[Johann]

That’s difficult to explain…I could do it by my testimony but can think of no other way.

Thank you for being honest.
Shalom to you and family
J.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Oh how i love to praise and thank the glorious Lord .
But i also need to hear what YA THINK about that post .
Was i a dangerous devil cause i expose certain LOVE SINS which aint love
Was i devil cause i chose to say we must BELIEVE IN CHRIST
was i devil cause i actaully correct brethern that are in sin and error .
Am i monster cause i would kick unrepentant sinners OUT of the church .
Am i a hater cause i wont bow to the dark rainbow
and rather expose that sin too .
Or am i confused cause i preach against the unholy roman mother whore
Or perhaps its cause i expose the workers of darkness even buried within the protestant realm .
is my crime that i actually DO LOVE thus i do correct sin within the church .

Doctrine matters.

 

[Johann]

Doctrine matters.

Absolutely

 

[quietthinker]

Are we supposed to understand what you’re saying there…? Lol

yes

 

[Episkopos]

A bit of Calvinism mixed in, doctrine of election.

Man made doctrines take one ASPECT of God's ways to the exclusion of another. The saints are by election. The righteous are by submission and obedience to God in all humility and fear.

Go to any baptism. The people are fresh and happy (usually). They are happy to start a new life with God. What you don't see is the Phariseeism that many will adopt as a means of self-justification, even as they remain carnal. What you don't see are those who get discouraged and drop out of the race.

What begins well doesn't always end well.

But where are the ministers that help those brothers. So often, it is the minsters who contribute to the failure of potential disciples.

 

[Episkopos]

Righteousness and holiness are two words that describe states of moral excellence.

says who? Neither describe moral excellence. Righteousness is based on the wisdom of humility, honesty and godly fear. The righteous sin. The holy are pure as God is pure. Sinless...by the power of grace.

There is a slight difference between the two concepts.

Again very wrong. There is a huge difference between being humble about one's fallen condition and walking in resurrection life. And these are not concepts but POWER. The righteous walk by human strength..and the saint walks by resurrection power.

Oxford Dictionary’s definition of holiness is “the state of being holy,” and the definition of holy is “dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred” or “morally and spiritually excellent.” The Oxford definition of righteousness is “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” and the definition of righteous is “morally right or justifiable; virtuous.” So, righteousness is the condition of being proven or declared morally excellent, while holiness is the condition of being consecrated or dedicated to moral excellence.

Morality is used to justify people for doing what is acceptable to men. Righteousness is being acceptable to God.

Think of it this way: a ballerina who dances for the New York City Ballet has been declared good enough to be part of that company. From a young age, she has set herself apart to that purpose, to honing her skills, and she continues to practice and improve as she dances. In this analogy, righteousness is the ballerina’s position in the ballet company. She has been given a position, her talents have been approved, and she belongs to the company. Holiness is the ballerina’s dedication and devotion to her art. Everything in her life—what she eats, whom she knows, how she spends her time and money—bows to this purpose.

To some, terms like righteousness and holiness can be a bit daunting. We think, “But that’s not how I am,” or we wonder how we can be sinful and also holy or righteous. Many people experience fear and doubt that stem from the idea that we need to “clean ourselves up” or be “good enough” before we come to God. This confusion is natural, considering the strict definition of righteousness and holiness. We want to be approved and included, but we often feel like our spiritual “dancing skills” are just not up to par—and never will be.

This is about faith and works...not skills.

The Bible provides hope. We are not left to achieve righteousness and holiness on our own. Quite the opposite. In fact, left to ourselves, we would never achieve those states. Let’s look at righteousness first, and then holiness.

The story of righteousness really starts with a man named Abram in the ancient city of Ur in Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq).

Are you forgetting men like Abel, Noah, Job....

God called Abram to leave his country, his people, and his father’s household and go to the land God would show him. God promised to make Abram into a great nation and bless the nations of the world through him (Genesis 12:1–3). In faith, Abram gathered up his household and left. Several years later, God told Abram, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward” (Genesis 15:1). Abram asked what God could give him since Abram still had no children. God again promised him an heir and offspring as numerous as the stars (Genesis 15:2–5). “Abram believed the LORD, and he credited to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:6).

Human righteousness....like Abel, Job, Noah. Enoch.....

What was “morally excellent” or righteous about Abram believing God? He had not sacrificed anything to God. He had not done some mighty work in God’s name. He had not even perfectly trusted God in the journey so far (see Genesis 12:11–20). He hadn’t done anything except listen to God’s words and accept them as true. And for that Abram was counted righteous in God’s eyes. If we look at the definition of righteousness again, “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” it is clear that this incident set the foundation of justification by faith, a concept explored many more times throughout Scripture (Romans 4; Galatians 3; James 2:23).

Galatians 3:7–9 links all who have faith in Christ to their predecessor in faith, Abraham: “Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” All who have faith in Christ are righteous in God’s sight, regardless of their nationality (Galatians 3:26–29). “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Paul explains, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). It is by Jesus’ work on the cross that we are made righteous, and by faith we are justified, or declared righteous, before God.

The present grace can either help someone to be righteous...become honest by seeing how sinful we are....OR/AND...allow the righteous to be translated into the higher walk in Zion where the walk is in the power of the risen Christ.

Now, what about holiness? The Bible says that “without holiness no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, praised God for sending the Messiah, saying, in part, that Jesus would “enable us to serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him all our days” (Luke 1:74). The apostle Peter wrote, “But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy’” (1 Peter 1:15–16). Ephesians 4 explains that we are to put off our old, sinful self, “which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:22–24).

Like righteousness, holiness is a gift from God. The process of becoming holy is called sanctification, and God promises to complete His sanctification in us because of Christ’s work on the cross. The writer of Hebrews explains positional sanctification: “By [God’s] will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all,” and also alludes to progressive sanctification, speaking of “those who are being made holy” (Hebrews 10:10, 14). We are perfected and sanctified by one event: Christ’s substitutionary atonement on the cross for our sin. As we live our lives in Christ, our holiness increases as we yield to the work of the Holy Spirit within us and follow this command: “Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:12–13; see also Romans 12:1–2; Hebrews 12:1–2).

What is the difference between righteousness and holiness? | GotQuestions.org

What is the difference between righteousness and holiness? How closely related are holiness and righteousness?

www.gotquestions.org

The opposite to what you explained to @quietthinker

Walking with God is now possible ...and being PLEASING to God....because we are able to enter INTO Christ...to walk as He walked. That is the privilege of the saint.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yeah well, maybe make a concentrated effort, perhaps in the next thread he starts, to see who throws the first punch.

Paul was only interested in the higher walk, He was apprehended by God to do that...to minister miracles and walk around like a dead man...crucified in his outer man....but experiencing the exquisite walk that is in Zion. When He says he is seated in heavenly places...he's talking about a real walk in a real place. Not some religious ego trip we see among the rich spoiled Westerners.

I've been trying to explain to you that instead of claiming everything for yourself as if you already were experiencing the higher walk...while you are only walking in human strength ...which disqualifies you from the kingdom...why not HUMBLE yourself and seek God for that higher walk...for real! A real encounter, and a real empowering, and a real translation into the kingdom walk in Zion? It's the best kept secret in the world...and the church!


You have to go to Jesus to have your faith finished...Not just continue to do as you've always done. I know many people who confuse themselves and what they can do ....with Christ and what He can do. And it never ends well. Pretending is as bad as giving up entirely. (as I speak about in podcast #9)

Please do. We start with a burst of grace from heaven and we finish with a burst of grace INTO heaven. So we are being drawn into a close walk and fellowship with the living God. Consider that...By faith Enoch was translated....why use that analogy to explain faith??? Could the writer of Hebrews know about coming before God in Zion? Study on it.

Paul was ministering and writing to the CHURCH, and a young multiplying church at that, full of new believers. He wasn't just selfishly "interested" in things that pertained to himself. His letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit....food and grazing for all the sheep, not just those who were "spiritual". And remember he said he didn't consider that he had attained.

What I see is that things are being compartmentalized, and they don't need to be. Not being critical, just trying to be helpful. The mind of the Spirit/Christ doesn't compartmentalize. That's the sad thing....there is just no need to undermine the foundation, no need at all. There isn't a contradiction. We are to GROW UP INTO Him, the Head. What we have already received, we need to grow up INTO. If we hadn't already received it/Him (earnest, seed form) we would have nothing to grow up INTO. All the promises are yes and amen.

 

[Lizbeth]

The spirit of Cain. A jealous reaction against those whom God receives.

Or it could just be jealousy/zeal for the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Righteousness and holiness are two words that describe states of moral excellence.

says who? Neither describe moral excellence. Righteousness is based on the wisdom of humility, honesty and godly fear. The righteous sin. The holy are pure as God is pure. Sinless...by the power of grace.

There is a slight difference between the two concepts.

Again very wrong. There is a huge difference between being humble about one's fallen condition and walking in resurrection life. And these are not concepts but POWER. The righteous walk by human strength..and the saint walks by resurrection power.

Oxford Dictionary’s definition of holiness is “the state of being holy,” and the definition of holy is “dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred” or “morally and spiritually excellent.” The Oxford definition of righteousness is “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” and the definition of righteous is “morally right or justifiable; virtuous.” So, righteousness is the condition of being proven or declared morally excellent, while holiness is the condition of being consecrated or dedicated to moral excellence.

Morality is used to justify people for doing what is acceptable to men. Righteousness is being acceptable to God.

Think of it this way: a ballerina who dances for the New York City Ballet has been declared good enough to be part of that company. From a young age, she has set herself apart to that purpose, to honing her skills, and she continues to practice and improve as she dances. In this analogy, righteousness is the ballerina’s position in the ballet company. She has been given a position, her talents have been approved, and she belongs to the company. Holiness is the ballerina’s dedication and devotion to her art. Everything in her life—what she eats, whom she knows, how she spends her time and money—bows to this purpose.

To some, terms like righteousness and holiness can be a bit daunting. We think, “But that’s not how I am,” or we wonder how we can be sinful and also holy or righteous. Many people experience fear and doubt that stem from the idea that we need to “clean ourselves up” or be “good enough” before we come to God. This confusion is natural, considering the strict definition of righteousness and holiness. We want to be approved and included, but we often feel like our spiritual “dancing skills” are just not up to par—and never will be.

This is about faith and works...not skills.

The Bible provides hope. We are not left to achieve righteousness and holiness on our own. Quite the opposite. In fact, left to ourselves, we would never achieve those states. Let’s look at righteousness first, and then holiness.

The story of righteousness really starts with a man named Abram in the ancient city of Ur in Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq).

Are you forgetting men like Abel, Noah, Job....

God called Abram to leave his country, his people, and his father’s household and go to the land God would show him. God promised to make Abram into a great nation and bless the nations of the world through him (Genesis 12:1–3). In faith, Abram gathered up his household and left. Several years later, God told Abram, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward” (Genesis 15:1). Abram asked what God could give him since Abram still had no children. God again promised him an heir and offspring as numerous as the stars (Genesis 15:2–5). “Abram believed the LORD, and he credited to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:6).

Human righteousness....like Abel, Job, Noah. Enoch.....

What was “morally excellent” or righteous about Abram believing God? He had not sacrificed anything to God. He had not done some mighty work in God’s name. He had not even perfectly trusted God in the journey so far (see Genesis 12:11–20). He hadn’t done anything except listen to God’s words and accept them as true. And for that Abram was counted righteous in God’s eyes. If we look at the definition of righteousness again, “the quality of being morally right or justifiable,” it is clear that this incident set the foundation of justification by faith, a concept explored many more times throughout Scripture (Romans 4; Galatians 3; James 2:23).

Galatians 3:7–9 links all who have faith in Christ to their predecessor in faith, Abraham: “Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” All who have faith in Christ are righteous in God’s sight, regardless of their nationality (Galatians 3:26–29). “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Paul explains, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). It is by Jesus’ work on the cross that we are made righteous, and by faith we are justified, or declared righteous, before God.

The present grace can either help someone to be righteous...become honest by seeing how sinful we are....OR/AND...allow the righteous to be translated into the higher walk in Zion where the walk is in the power of the risen Christ.

Now, what about holiness? The Bible says that “without holiness no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, praised God for sending the Messiah, saying, in part, that Jesus would “enable us to serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him all our days” (Luke 1:74). The apostle Peter wrote, “But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy’” (1 Peter 1:15–16). Ephesians 4 explains that we are to put off our old, sinful self, “which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:22–24).

Like righteousness, holiness is a gift from God. The process of becoming holy is called sanctification, and God promises to complete His sanctification in us because of Christ’s work on the cross. The writer of Hebrews explains positional sanctification: “By [God’s] will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all,” and also alludes to progressive sanctification, speaking of “those who are being made holy” (Hebrews 10:10, 14). We are perfected and sanctified by one event: Christ’s substitutionary atonement on the cross for our sin. As we live our lives in Christ, our holiness increases as we yield to the work of the Holy Spirit within us and follow this command: “Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:12–13; see also Romans 12:1–2; Hebrews 12:1–2).

What is the difference between righteousness and holiness? | GotQuestions.org

What is the difference between righteousness and holiness? How closely related are holiness and righteousness?

www.gotquestions.org

The opposite to what you explained to @quietthinker

Walking with God is now possible ...and being PLEASING to God....because we are able to enter INTO Christ...to walk as He walked. That is the privilege of the saint.

 

[Lizbeth]

Reflecting on this story, I don't think God or the Spirit killed them overtly. I think the shock of self revelation did, like a heart attack.

One can live in denial with oneself and foster quiet a comfy place. Others may see you are in denial even hypocritical but it is water off a ducks back to you because of the attitude of denial but when self revelation bursts onto your scene, there's nowhere to hide. It's like a bolt of lightning out of a perceived blue sky and it can and does kill.

Seems that this happened to Nabal too.

 

[Episkopos]

Paul was ministering and writing to the CHURCH, and a young multiplying church at that, full of new believers.

This is your speculation. The churches were mixed with new and older believers. Some were carnal and some were spiritual. Do you know the bible well enough or do I have to post verses?

He wasn't just selfishly "interested" in things that pertained to himself.

The things of Christ. Righteousness always was. The New Covenant is about the higher walk...that's what's new. So then God is calling the righteous (men like Cornelius) UP into the higher walk....into holiness. It isn't wrong to teach holiness. Back then, there was more faith.

His letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit....food and grazing for all the sheep, not just those who were "spiritual". And remember he said he didn't consider that he had attained.

He wasn't walking in the Spirit at the time of His writing. But he also said that some were...To those of us who are perfect...Again do you know the bible well enough????....

What I see is that things are being compartmentalized, and they don't need to be. Not being critical, just trying to be helpful.

The carnal mind cannot help. Try compartmentalizing the birth of a baby...lots happening. A lot of moving parts. Nothing that men would consider. Too many moving parts. The same goes for godliness. You are trying to compartmentalize with your own mental abilities...futile to say the least...

The mind of the Spirit/Christ doesn't compartmentalize.

But the carnal mind does. That is what you are doing.

That's the sad thing....there is just no need to undermine the foundation, no need at all.

You are a broken...carnal...record here...turning the same vain ideas in your mind...over and over. Your foundation is YOU and Christ mixed together. Maybe you need to compartmentalize the difference between you and your ways, and God and His ways.

There isn't a contradiction. We are to GROW UP INTO Him, the Head. What we have already received, we need to grow up INTO. If we hadn't already received it/Him (earnest, seed form) we would have nothing to grow up INTO. All the promises are yes and amen.

Again, you are not seeking the face of God...instead saying..it's ok...I've got everything I need...I will not be seeking You!

 

[Episkopos]

Or it could just be jealousy/zeal for the truth.

Could you be a crow sympathizer? You seem immune to the truth. Preferring what you already have to what is possible by going to God for more. So what's the alternative? The flesh! Religion! vanity!

You want to add yourself into the mix...like Eve did. Making this about YOUR advancement. You listen to the devil, are convinced of his lies and then take a bite of the apple...then say...I have done nothing wrong. But you are promoting you SELF life and elevating that WITH Christ. The Christ in YOU. God will have none of it.

It's a cautionary tale. I wonder how many here have the discernment to see what you are doing...and why its so wrong.

 

[Lizbeth]

mmm…I don’t know…I think I don’t agree. I think it’s like Uzzah being struck dead for improper handling of Gods holiness. And like Moses not being allowed to enter the promised land for improper behavior in holiness.
And look, Moses was seen at the transfiguration. He feared God, was humble, and God obviously accepted him even though he failed to enter the promised land.

I believe Uzzah was a living parable speaking to the church about the end result of handling the things of God/Spirit with hands/mind of flesh. It leads to death. Like the way that seemeth right to man, his carnal mind, fleshly emotions and self righteousness, leads to death. (Speaking of spiritual death.)

To the church, in one way Moses was a picture of the Law.....it fell short. How the Law couldn't bring the people into the promised land. Entering the land of promise had to wait for Joshua/Jesus to lead them in.