What does it mean to be born again?

[Episkopos]

I have said I'm tired, 1:22 AM. My ego is dethroned, thank the Lord for that, doesn't mean I'm struggling.
The one who have a tremendous problem with the ego eimi is you Epi--and the mere suggestion that you can "convince" a Orthodox rabbi through the Western worldview/lenses to embrace Christianity is quite a task, where will you start?

I understand more than you realize brother, no boasting, and can clearly see that you are way out of depth here.

But now I must go.

You think God is not greater than a rabbi? You have fully underestimated God and His servants.

So you actually understand a LOT less than you esteem yourself to have.

I go with God's wisdom...not the wisdom of men. A Jewish rabbi (and most modern believers) are stuck in a one-dimensional dogmatic understanding.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wikipedia is not the greatest source for accuracy. Just sayin.’

 

[Johann]

You think God is not greater than a rabbi? You have fully underestimated God and His servants.

So you actually understand a LOT less than you esteem yourself to have.

I go with God's wisdom...not the wisdom of men. A Jewish rabbi (and most modern believers) are stuck in a one-dimensional dogmatic understanding.

God is not "with" you, you have lost all credibility, with me, and the other members and refuse to correct your disciple.
Goodnight.
You made a lot of mistakes, in this short, one dimensional dialog.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So you want to debate Tovia? I can arrange for a meeting between you two.

name-drop·ping
/ˈnāmˌdräpiNG/

noun
noun: name-dropping; noun: namedropping

1. the practice of casually mentioning the names of famous people one knows or claims to know in order to impress others.
   "name-dropping, snobbery, and generally pathetic attempts to be seen and be admired"

 

[Lizbeth]

God also gave us martyrs. Does that mean that God hated His saints so much that He put them to death? You are not seeing the difference between the COUNSEL of God and the wrath of God. Does God want us to die for the sake of Christ? Yes. But is it God's wrath on us? No. God wants what is good in the eternal reality...what's good for us ultimately.

And that's what I do. But the children are unruly, to say the least.

They sure are, and you encourage the unruliness, as well as participate in it.

Judgment begins with the house of the Lord. And Jesus led the way, as our forerunner. And we as His house also undergo judgment (chastisements of the flesh as a Father chastises His sons who He loves) in this life so that we don't have to undergo His wrath in the end. Loving not our lives unto the death, like Jesus. So it is the Father chastising...even though He often uses the devil for that purpose. "I the Lord created the Destroyer to work havoc." "I the Lord create good and evil." It's not a case of one or the other being responsible so to speak.

 

[Episkopos]

They sure are, and you encourage the unruliness, as well as participate in it.

Any unbiased appraisal will see that the unruliness is provided by the crows who circle over the threads in order to hurl abuse on the truth.

Judgment begins with the house of the Lord. And Jesus led the way, as our forerunner. And we as His house also undergo judgment (chastisements of the flesh as a Father chastises His sons who He loves) in this life so that we don't have to undergo His wrath in the end. Loving not our lives unto the death, like Jesus. So it is the Father chastising...even though He often uses the devil for that purpose. "I the Lord created the Destroyer to work havoc." "I the Lord create good and evil." It's not a case of one or the other being responsible so to speak.

You have the Father all wrong. He does not champion one person's flesh over the other. He is NOT a respecter of persons. Fear the Lord and learn some wisdom.

 

[Azim]

You think God is not greater than a rabbi? You have fully underestimated God and His servants.

So you actually understand a LOT less than you esteem yourself to have.

I go with God's wisdom...not the wisdom of men. A Jewish rabbi (and most modern believers) are stuck in a one-dimensional dogmatic understanding.

Would not one who believes in Jesus as the messiah, have God's wisdom, compared to one who rejects Jesus as the messiah?

 

[Episkopos]

Would not one who believes in Jesus as the messiah, have God's wisdom, compared to one who rejects Jesus as the messiah?

Only if one has known the power of God in Christ. otherwise...in human strength a rabbi would eat up a biased believer who has no understanding beyond a dogmatic acceptance of Jesus for personal gain.

People Like the ones who negate the truth have no chance against even a person who understands human righteousness..let alone the righteousness of God.


The Jew understands human righteousness. But they take it too far... God builds on an actual righteousness...a righteous attitude...of humility and godly fear.

 

[Lizbeth]

You think God is not greater than a rabbi? You have fully underestimated God and His servants.

So you actually understand a LOT less than you esteem yourself to have.

I go with God's wisdom...not the wisdom of men. A Jewish rabbi (and most modern believers) are stuck in a one-dimensional dogmatic understanding.

Not wrestling with flesh and blood. Good luck dealing with those religious spirits, they are very smart and ya just can't win an argument with the devil. Narcissists are like that too, can never win an argument with a narcissist either, because the devil helps them, lol.

Debating with the carnal mind will not generally get a Jewish person to convert to Yeshua. You would just be butting heads and accomplishing nothing. The Jews require a sign. Only the Holy Spirit is able to bypass those spirits and objections of the carnal mind....to touch them or show them a sign and wonder, or miracle.

 

[Episkopos]

Not wrestling with flesh and blood. Good luck dealing with those religious spirits, they are very smart and ya just can't win an argument with the devil. Narcissists are like that too, can never win an argument with a narcissist either, because the devil helps them, lol.

Debating with the carnal mind will not generally get a Jewish person to convert to Yeshua. You would just be butting heads and accomplishing nothing. The Jews require a sign. Only the Holy Spirit is able to bypass those spirits and objections of the carnal mind....to touch them or show them a sign and wonder, or miracle.

You have to leave open the possibility that a rabbi might be more open to what is plainly written in the Torah than a dogmatic indoctrinated Gentile who doesn't know how to reason from the scriptures...apart from a circular reasoning based on a misreading of the text.

The modern fantasy gospel has NO roots in the OT. It comes from Luther. Luther hated the Jews because they would have none of his nonsense. It takes an actual understanding of righteousness to speak to a rabbi. An avowal of what is true...but INSUFFICIENT to walk in the higher righteousness of God.

 

[Laurina]

Lexham Septuagint. But check out the Hebrew in the MSS...It says the very same thing. So it was those reformers that obscured the text. Do you know how to read this?

The MSS says... בְּדַעְתּוֹ יַצְדִּיק צַדִּיק עַבְדִּי, לָרַבִּים; וַעֲוֺנֹתָם, הוּא יִסְבֹּל.

He who toils his soul will see , he will be satisfied in his opinion , he will justify the righteous , my servant to many , and their seasons he will endure :

Testing my Hebrew Epi?

Is this what you were drawing attention to @Episkopos?

 

[Behold]

The modern fantasy gospel

That "fantasy gospel" would be what you described as Jesus's CROSS is 'whipping boy" nonsense, and that God's Grace is 'free stuff".
That is how you defined the Cross of Christ and the Grace of God.

You're also the very one that said that ... "Jesus didnt become sin",.....yet Paul the apostle wrote.. the verse below.

You know i had thought you were just a confused hateful Heretic who was joined at the theological hip of Calvin's madness, but you've proven to me that you are much much worse then that... Episkopos.
-

New International Version
God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

New Living Translation
For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

English Standard Version
For our sake God made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have to leave open the possibility that a rabbi might be more open to what is plainly written in the Torah than a dogmatic indoctrinated Gentile who doesn't know how to reason from the scriptures...apart from a circular reasoning based on a misreading of the text.

The modern fantasy gospel has NO roots in the OT. It comes from Luther. Luther hated the Jews because they would have none of his nonsense. It takes an actual understanding of righteousness to speak to a rabbi. An avowal of what is true...but INSUFFICIENT to walk in the higher righteousness of God..

I don't really know what Luther taught so can't comment. But I will point out that unfortunately the Jews would have none of Jesus' "nonsense" either. When Christ is rejected it's for the same reasons people always have rejected Him, not really because of anyone's flawed theology.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't really know what Luther taught so can't comment. But I will point out that unfortunately the Jews would have none of Jesus' "nonsense" either. When Christ is rejected it's for the same reasons people always have rejected Him, not really because of anyone's flawed theology.

And therein lies the problem with the many. They constantly try and change the way to evangelize
or think they have to reason a certain way to win converts to Christ . The only true reason
why ANYONE rejects Christ is exactly why JESUS said they do . They wont come to the LIGHT lest their deeds be REPROVED .
Yet our churches think if we keep silent about THEIR DEEDS or act like GOD approves of said deeds
they can win converts . NOPE they only winning folks to the god that honors SIN and that AINT GOD nor HIS CHRIST .

 

[Keturah]

2 TIMOTHY 3 KJV

4 Traitors, heady,  highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of THIS SORT are they which creep into houses, and lead captive SILLY WOMEN laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.

 Deceived when drawn away of our own lust to have our ears tickled or our ego flattered. This happens when God is not our Lord & master but instead we place a man in the throne of idolatry!

Cultic false messengers spread their false messages when folks are NOT where they need to be in/with God!

 

[Keturah]

This is so sad to see folks fighting within rather than fighting the enemy that is SUPPOSED to be without!

I pray seekers & unbelievers do not view this thread that was supposed to be about knowing God and having a relationship with him.........born again.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't really know what Luther taught so can't comment. But I will point out that unfortunately the Jews would have none of Jesus' "nonsense" either. When Christ is rejected it's for the same reasons people always have rejected Him, not really because of anyone's flawed theology.

Many Jews converted to Christ...the early church was Jewish at the outset. I have personally led a few Jews to the Lord. One was orthodox...and he opted to become Catholic. He liked the structure...since he was used to structure. What he didn't like was either a mixture of religion (7th day adventist...whom he visited for awhile) or evangelical (too much hype and emotionalism).

When we start putting limitations on what God can do...we tend to bear out the lack of faith we have...so we see little to no miraculous interventions. To the pure everything is pure. To the impure...there is nothing pure. To the unbeliever, there is no reason for faith in God.

 

[Brakelite]

You have to leave open the possibility that a rabbi might be more open to what is plainly written in the Torah than a dogmatic indoctrinated Gentile who doesn't know how to reason from the scriptures...apart from a circular reasoning based on a misreading of the text.

The modern fantasy gospel has NO roots in the OT. It comes from Luther. Luther hated the Jews because they would have none of his nonsense. It takes an actual understanding of righteousness to speak to a rabbi. An avowal of what is true...but INSUFFICIENT to walk in the higher righteousness of God.

From the little I have read or heard, modern day rabbis would be more familiar with the Talmud, not Torah.

 

[Episkopos]

This is so sad to see folks fighting within rather than fighting the enemy that is SUPPOSED to be without!

I pray seekers & unbelievers do not view this thread that was supposed to be about knowing God and having a relationship with him.........born again.

Seems to me you want to add your own ideas right in with those already here. Can you really stand apart and judge? Are you not doing a drive by post with a holier than thou attitude? So then you'll fit right in here...

 

[Episkopos]

From the little I have read or heard, modern day rabbis would be more familiar with the Talmud, not Torah.

True...but there is a huge respect for the Torah. Had the Lord not hidden within the Torah the truth of the gospel...well, there would be no chance of winning them to Christ.