What exactly is and when is the rapture? Part 1

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Marty fox

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Introduction

Does the bible really teach us that the rapture is the church being rescued by Jesus from a 7 year tribulation?

Actually, the rapture or a seven year tribulation is not mentioned in the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation shows the church going through a 3 1/2 year persecution by a beast. This is a modern interpretation. In order to obtain truth, we need to be willing to sacrifice cherished traditions on the alter of scriptural revelation. This is what we will propose in this article.

What the book of Revelation doesn’t say about the rapture.

The book of Revelation was given with a specific warning to 7 churches of what would soon take place. Within this book of the bible a solemn promise is given that Jesus will stand with them and reward them for their trials and tribulations. The book of Revelation is written for us but not written to us.

Why would God choose one generation to be saved from persecutions and all of the other generations to suffer through them? It is great a privilege to suffer for Christ.

Here are some verses in the bible that leads some to believe is applicable to the rapture.

Revelation 4:12 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

This is not the rapture. It says come up here and I will show YOU (meaning John) what must take place after this. John is taken in the Spirit and receives a vision in heaven.

Some also believe that Revelation 3:10-12 is the rapture.

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

In Revelation 3:11-12 Jesus tells them to hold on so that no one can take their crown so they can overcome and be rewarded. This was a personable letter given to the church of Philadelphia, it wasn’t written to us, instead it was written for us.
Is the rapture in the Olivet Discourse?

Some also believe that Matthew 24:31 is the rapture

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his ELECT from the four winds,from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is not the rapture either. Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that the ELECT are the chosen Jews that God saved during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 1.1 million Jews were killed during the siege on Jerusalem and 97 000 people were taken captives.

These verses are during this conflict that was in their future and in our past.

1.Mark 13:20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the ELECT, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them

2.Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

3.Matthew 24:22-24 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the ELECT those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the ELECT

The ones taken in Matthew 24:40-41 are not raptured either, they are taken in judgment.

Matthew 24:36-41 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

In Noah’s time it was better to be left than to be taken.

In verse 39, the flood came and took them away. They are taken in judgment and the people were killed by the flood. The ones left behind were on the ark safe and sound. The ones in Noah’s day are taken away just like the ones in verse 40-41 are taken away. They are taken away in judgment. I want to be left behind safe and secure.

What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teaching by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1.1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The second example that is used is in 1st Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15.The number seven means completeness to God, the completeness of Gods wrath is finished. Remember there was also a trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

End of part 1
 

marks

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Does the bible really teach us that the rapture is the church being rescued by Jesus from a 7 year tribulation?
No. It teaches the removal of the primarily gentile body of believers - Christians - both living and dead. These are apparently the "innumerable multitude" seen in Revelation 7, standing before the throne. I say "apparently", because, as just everyone will find, these answers are not explicit in the text. To see clearly, you have to be able to set aside your entrenched doctrines, and read the Bible for EXACTLY what it says.

Why would God choose one generation to be saved from persecutions and all of the other generations to suffer through them? It is great a privilege to suffer for Christ.

It's erroneous to think that "one generation" if raptured somehow becomes exempt from suffering, as opposed to all other generations. Some suffer and some don't. My mother lived her life, and died, having never experienced persecution, or suffering beyond what anybody suffers.

Some people suffer great afflictions and persecutions, and some do not.

I want to be left behind safe and secure.

I'm skipping over these other preceding verses, as I agree, none of these pertain to the rapture.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15.The number seven means completeness to God, the completeness of Gods wrath is finished. Remember there was also a trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

While this passages, Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 both teach about what happens, neither are specific on the timing.

With that being said, I disagree that the rapture is only for the changing of our bodies to enter heaven. We are already in heaven for one thing, Ephesians 2, Colossians 3. The rapture is our resurrection, the redemption of our bodies, for both living and dead, those in Christ. Not to enter heaven, we are already there, but to have immortal and incorruptible bodies, fit for the new heaven and new earth.

Equating the "last trump" with the 7th trumpet is debateable, I'm sure you know.

What is, and when is the rapture?

It is the removal of the primarly gentile body of Christ from off of planet earth, into the heavenly realm, in resurrection and transformation, to stand before His throne, an innumerable multitude from every nation and tribe and tongue and people.

It happens as the 7 sealed scroll is opened, at the beginning of the 70th week.

Much love!
 

Marty fox

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No. It teaches the removal of the primarily gentile body of believers - Christians - both living and dead. These are apparently the "innumerable multitude" seen in Revelation 7, standing before the throne. I say "apparently", because, as just everyone will find, these answers are not explicit in the text. To see clearly, you have to be able to set aside your entrenched doctrines, and read the Bible for EXACTLY what it says.



It's erroneous to think that "one generation" if raptured somehow becomes exempt from suffering, as opposed to all other generations. Some suffer and some don't. My mother lived her life, and died, having never experienced persecution, or suffering beyond what anybody suffers.

Some people suffer great afflictions and persecutions, and some do not.



I'm skipping over these other preceding verses, as I agree, none of these pertain to the rapture.



While this passages, Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 both teach about what happens, neither are specific on the timing.

With that being said, I disagree that the rapture is only for the changing of our bodies to enter heaven. We are already in heaven for one thing, Ephesians 2, Colossians 3. The rapture is our resurrection, the redemption of our bodies, for both living and dead, those in Christ. Not to enter heaven, we are already there, but to have immortal and incorruptible bodies, fit for the new heaven and new earth.

Equating the "last trump" with the 7th trumpet is debateable, I'm sure you know.

What is, and when is the rapture?

It is the removal of the primarly gentile body of Christ from off of planet earth, into the heavenly realm, in resurrection and transformation, to stand before His throne, an innumerable multitude from every nation and tribe and tongue and people.

It happens as the 7 sealed scroll is opened, at the beginning of the 70th week.

Much love!

Thanks for your response but what do you mean by gentile body believers?
 

marks

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Thanks for your response but what do you mean by gentile body believers?
The primarily gentile body of believers. The church as we know it today, some Jews, for the most part gentiles.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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The book of Revelation shows the church going through a 3 1/2 year persecution by a beast.
You have automatically assumed that the saints mentioned in Revelation 13:7, means "the Church": And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. You will note that it does not say "the Church" but "the saints".

When you take into account the fact that the divine Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- must be "taken out of the way", it would follow that the Church (which is indwelt by the Spirit) would also be taken out of the way. And where else would they go except to Heaven? Furthermore there is no mention of the Church or churches after Revelation 4:1.

So then the question arises as to who are these saints? Therefore one must go back to Revelation 11 and 12 and see that (1) many Jews (and others) will be saved through the witness of the two witnesses on earth during those 3 1/2 years and (3) a believing remnant of Jews will be preserved in the wilderness. Which means that there will be Tribulation saints after the Church has been taken up, and these will be killed for refusing to take the Mark of the Beast.

We also need to take into account the purpose of the Tribulation, or "time of Jacob's trouble" along with how the Antichrist will deceive the Jews and cut short his covenant of peace with them after 3 1/2 years. This period will be a time when the Jews worldwide will come under judgment.
In any event there is no connection between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Tribulation in Scripture. Therefore the Church DOES NOT go through the reign of the Antichrist (the Beast of Revelation 13).
 

Marty fox

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You have automatically assumed that the saints mentioned in Revelation 13:7, means "the Church": And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. You will note that it does not say "the Church" but "the saints".

When you take into account the fact that the divine Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- must be "taken out of the way", it would follow that the Church (which is indwelt by the Spirit) would also be taken out of the way. And where else would they go except to Heaven? Furthermore there is no mention of the Church or churches after Revelation 4:1.

So then the question arises as to who are these saints? Therefore one must go back to Revelation 11 and 12 and see that (1) many Jews (and others) will be saved through the witness of the two witnesses on earth during those 3 1/2 years and (3) a believing remnant of Jews will be preserved in the wilderness. Which means that there will be Tribulation saints after the Church has been taken up, and these will be killed for refusing to take the Mark of the Beast.

We also need to take into account the purpose of the Tribulation, or "time of Jacob's trouble" along with how the Antichrist will deceive the Jews and cut short his covenant of peace with them after 3 1/2 years. This period will be a time when the Jews worldwide will come under judgment.
In any event there is no connection between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Tribulation in Scripture. Therefore the Church DOES NOT go through the reign of the Antichrist (the Beast of Revelation 13).

If Jews convert they will also be the church.

We differ in views of what and when these events you mentioned are but if you also notice that you assumed that what is taken out of the way is the Holy Spirit when it doesn’t say the Holy Spirit.
 

Enoch111

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If Jews convert they will also be the church.
After the Church is raptured, converted Jews are not a part of the Church. We see the distinction in Revelation 7. One one hand we have the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. On the other hand we have a vast multitude from every nation, tongue, and tribe. Two distinct groups. Both saved by grace through faith.
 

Marty fox

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After the Church is raptured, converted Jews are not a part of the Church. We see the distinction in Revelation 7. One one hand we have the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. On the other hand we have a vast multitude from every nation, tongue, and tribe. Two distinct groups. Both saved by grace through faith.

I see the 144 000 as symbolic for the church just as John heard of the lion and then saw the slain Lamb John heard the 144 000 and then saw the great multitude.

Jesus said that He had two groups of sheep and made them one fold.

There is only one church and one bride made up of Gods faithful people before and after the cross