What happened to Enoch? Would love some input on this.

[marks]

We know for sure that Jude is quoting Enoch,

We know he's quoting Enoch because he said so, but again that's not an endorsement for the book.

What is your reply to the factual errors in the "book of Enoch"? The wind portals, and the sun portal, and the 1400 foot tall giants?

"3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven."

That's not what happens at all. It's not descriptive, and it's not phenomenal language either. It's just plain wrong.

Much love!

 

[TLHKAJ]

Not only does Jude quote from Enoch, several copies of the earlier sections of 1 Enoch were preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Ethiopian Church considers it ancient, authentic and scripture to this day.

And Enoch-- the seventh from Adam would have been a historical source even for Moses who may also have been quoting in Deuteronomy.

Compare: (who's quoting who?) We know for sure that Jude is quoting Enoch, because Jude writes after the DSS copies were hidden away and preserved for posterity. Moses could very well be using the same source material as he provides a historical recap near the end of his days.

Enoch 1--

"The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, and the eternal God will tread upon the earth, even on Mount Sinai, and appear from His camp and appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens."

Deuteronomy 33--

“The LORD came from Sinai and revealed himself to Israel from Seir. He appeared in splendor from Mount Paran, and came forth with ten thousand holy ones."

Interesting....

 

[Mr E]

We know he's quoting Enoch because he said so, but again that's not an endorsement for the book.

What is your reply to the factual errors in the "book of Enoch"? The wind portals, and the sun portal, and the 1400 foot tall giants?

"3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven."

That's not what happens at all. It's not descriptive, and it's not phenomenal language either. It's just plain wrong.

Much love!

Enoch testifies to what he saw. In spirit. Are you saying he didn't? Compare what Enoch saw in spirit to the accounts of the prophets-- Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Elijah, Elisha and others. Compare it to the writings of what John tells us he was shown. Are you going to discount all of these other witnesses to support your bias against Enoch?

 

[marks]

Enoch testifies to what he saw. In spirit. Are you saying he didn't?

Yes, I'm saying the Book of Enoch is pseudopigrapha, not actually written by Enoch, and therefore not visions which Enoch saw, which accounts for the factual errors. It's not inspired Scripture, and does not meet the standard of inspired Scripture, which includes that it not be wrong in matters of fact.

Are you saying there are factual errors in the Bible prophets? I'm not aware of any myself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

your bias against Enoch

Hm.

Can't anyone write without using loaded and misleading language anymore? Does everyone feel they have to bolster their claims by adding things like this?

What makes you think I have a bias against Enoch? I've never met the man! OK, I know, you mean the book. I have an opinion. Oh, wait, YOU have opinion, I have bias, is that it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Enoch 1--

"The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, and the eternal God will tread upon the earth, even on Mount Sinai, and appear from His camp and appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens."

Deuteronomy 33--

“The LORD came from Sinai and revealed himself to Israel from Seir. He appeared in splendor from Mount Paran, and came forth with ten thousand holy ones."

While a later writer may very easily pattern their writing after Moses.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Even the Holy Bible tells us in Genesis 5:24 NASB95

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.


NOW. Can the bible lie? I submit it is possible based on who is writing what they perceive to be the truth, but again NO. As we have been told by "the experts" that the bible is the "inerrant inspired Word from God."

We have also been told that no one has gone to be with or see the father because the time for that will be after Jesus' 2nd coming. (Please... Preterists... let this one rest.)

So the question is... When God took Enoch, to where did he take him?

Upper Sheol , often referred to as paradise?

Some have said... Paradise is pictured as being in the heavens, not underground.... but is that so?

What is Sheol and Where is it? Bible Meaning and Definition

The Bible says Sheol is the grave or place of the dead. But who goes there and what is it like? Read Bible meaning and descriptions.

www.biblestudytools.com

But Bakers definition and explanation seems incomplete ....

Jesus' Descension To Sheol: What It Is And Isn't • Things Above Us

A Twitter-kerfuffle erupted this week when various news agencies reported Hollywood star Mel Gibson is working on a sequel to the wildly popular Passion of ...

thingsabove.us

Wiki tells us...



So, if one were to assume that God took Enoch... to where did He take him?

To a different location to live out his life under another name?

Or to Upper Sheol awaiting his eventual heavenly entrance?

I cannot believe that He took him to heaven simply because John 3:13 tells us “No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. And Jesus has not been born when Enoch vanished.

Opinions?

Did he go to have a beer?

 

[Mr E]

Yes, I'm saying the Book of Enoch is pseudopigrapha, not actually written by Enoch, and therefore not visions which Enoch saw, which accounts for the factual errors. It's not inspired Scripture, and does not meet the standard of inspired Scripture, which includes that it not be wrong in matters of fact.

Are you saying there are factual errors in the Bible prophets? I'm not aware of any myself.

Much love!

Early church leaders accepted the book of Enoch as scripture, and as mentioned- it remains so by some Orthodox Christian communities. It took 'the church councils 500 years to decide it didn't belong-- Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Athenagoras, and Barnabas.... all accepted Enoch as scripture. The primary reason for rejecting the book of Enoch from the Christian canon of scripture is incredibly ridiculous.

Why did the council reject it? Because it was not considered part of the Jewish Old Testament. Do you understand that? They rejected it because the Jews had already rejected it. Then, here comes Jude. Jude tells us clearly that Enoch prophesied about the coming of Jesus the Christ. He quotes Enoch doing so>>>

“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Jude says-- that prophecy from Enoch was about Jesus. Is it any surprise that the Jews who rejected Jesus also rejected Enoch?

What "factual errors" are you referring to? Be specific. And don't throw silliness about, from things seen in visions unless you are ready call things like Zechariah's flying scroll a "factual error" because it was simply too big to fly (30 feet long, and 15 feet wide) --- but wait... scrolls fly? Why that must be a factual error in scripture!

 

[Mr E]

Hm.

Can't anyone write without using loaded and misleading language anymore? Does everyone feel they have to bolster their claims by adding things like this?

What makes you think I have a bias against Enoch? I've never met the man! OK, I know, you mean the book. I have an opinion. Oh, wait, YOU have opinion, I have bias, is that it?

Much love!

lol.... don't get the vapors. Bias, unlike prejudice- can be for or against an opinion on a matter. It doesn't have to be perceived as negative (though it might be) particularly if it springs from an unfair treatment of some issue at hand. To the Coptic Ethiopians, your treatment of their sacred scriptures would surely be seen as an unfair bias. It has been in their canon from ancient times and it has never been removed from their canon.

You base your opinion on the opinions of others. If only they had the Dead Sea Scrolls to reference, as an aid to judge authenticity. You don't have their excuse.

 

[Mr E]

While a later writer may very easily pattern their writing after Moses.

Much love!

Ever heard of scribes? Copyists? Historians? A book doesn't have to have been "penned" by the hand of the person the material therein is attributed to.

Like this-- for example. Did Moses write this>>>>? An honest investigator would admit that they don't really know if Moses actually wrote a single word of the books of Moses.

So Moses, the servant of the LORD, died there in the land of Moab as the LORD had said. He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab near Beth Peor, but no one knows his exact burial place to this very day. Moses was 120 years old when he died, but his eye was not dull nor had his vitality departed. The Israelites mourned for Moses in the rift valley plains of Moab for thirty days; then the days of mourning for Moses ended.

Now Joshua son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had placed his hands on him; and the Israelites listened to him and did just what the LORD had commanded Moses. No prophet ever again arose in Israel like Moses, who knew the LORD face to face. He did all the signs and wonders the LORD had sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh, all his servants, and the whole land, and he displayed great power and awesome might in view of all Israel.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Rella ......with regard to the OP, perhaps it would be good to clear up some assumptions made in those quotes for starters.....the things assumed to be true in those statements, are not scripturally true, but based on ideas that infiltrated Christianity in the early centuries....things left over from the apostasy that corrupted Israel. Belief in immediate life after death is not a Bible teaching. There is no immortal soul in original Jewish belief, but it was adopted from “the nations” whose false religious beliefs often seeped into Judaism and afterward into “Christianity” from the same source. Jesus foretold that it would happen. (The wheat and the weeds.)

Who originally promoted the idea that you don’t really die?.......It wasn’t Yahweh.
Satan was the one who told Eve...”you surely will not die”, when God told Adam that they surely would. There was no mention of heaven or hell, just life or death. Adam was told that they would “return to the dust” out of which they were created....nothing more.

Here is an example of what I mean....(from your quoted source)

“Toward the end of the Old Testament, God revealed that there will be a resurrection of the dead ( Isa 26:19). Sheol will devour no longer; instead God will swallow up Death ( Isa 25:8 ). The faithful will be rewarded with everlasting life while the rest will experience eternal contempt ( Dan 12:2 ). This theology developed further in the intertestamental period.”

So in the “intertestamental period”, what happened to Jewish belief about the soul? Was there a conscious part of man that survived the death of the body in original Jewish understanding? NO! There is nothing in the Hebrew writings that even suggest such a thing. The “soul” as described in the OT was always a living, breathing creature, both humans and animals are described as “souls”......not that the soul lived separately from the body, and no mention is made of animals experiencing an “afterlife”.
Their scripture said....
“for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.” (Eccl 3:20-21)
So man and animals experienced the same death....man was not superior to animals in death....all breathed the same air and when breathing stopped, all returned to the dust. Their “one spirit” is their breath, which is the meaning of “spirit” (“pneuma” in Hebrew) from which we derive the words “pneumonia” and “pneumatic” in English. Both pertaining to air or breath. They never saw the spirit as something separate from the body. When the spirit leaves the body....that is the last breath. The soul is dead.

“By the time of Jesus, it was common for Jews to believe that the righteous dead go to a place of comfort while the wicked go to Hades ("Hades" normally translates "Sheol" in the LXX), a place of torment ( Luke 16:22-23 ).

“By the time of Jesus”, Judaism was completely off the rails as Jesus said.....their worship was “in vain” because they accepted man made traditions over the word of God. (Matt 15:7-9; Matt 23:37-39)

“Similarly, in Christianity, believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord ( 2 Cor 5:8 ; Php 1:23 ). Hades is a hostile place whose gates cannot prevail against the church ( Matt 16:18 ). In fact, Jesus himself holds the keys of Death and Hades ( Rev 1:18 ). Death and Hades will ultimately relinquish their dead and be cast into the lake of fire ( Rev 20:13-14 ).”

None of that is true or biblical. All go to Sheol which is the common grave of mankind. It is a place of rest......neither heaven or hades contain living souls. Souls are mortal....they die. (Ezekiel 18:4) They rest in hades until the resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it.

“Hades” is not “Gehenna” however, so translating several words as “hell” is misleading. There is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”.....it is a teaching found in all false worship....and is based on the lie that the soul is immortal.....lies building on lies.
“Gehenna” is eternal death which is the natural opposite of eternal life.....
Jesus said in Matt 10:28....
“And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”
Souls are “destroyed” in Gehenna, not tortured. Those in “hades” can be resurrected, but those in “Gehenna” remain dead.

 

[marks]

What "factual errors" are you referring to? Be specific.

We know he's quoting Enoch because he said so, but again that's not an endorsement for the book.

What is your reply to the factual errors in the "book of Enoch"? The wind portals, and the sun portal, and the 1400 foot tall giants?

"3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven."

That's not what happens at all. It's not descriptive, and it's not phenomenal language either. It's just plain wrong.

Much love!

This was already posted to you . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

lol.... don't get the vapors.

LOL . . . stick to the topic . . . which is not me.

Look at the sun being blown by the wind from the north . . . there are your vapors.

Much love!

 

[marks]

A book doesn't have to have been "penned" by the hand of the person the material therein is attributed to.

Forgive me if I don't bother to respond to this one . . . Other to say, Baruch was Jeremiah's scribe, yet the material was given by God through Jeremiah.

That's not the same thing.

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

This was already posted to you . . .

Much love!

So disingenuous marks. Borderline dishonest. Certainly not intellectually honest. You side-step questions you don't like and pretend they weren't asked.

I asked you about the visions of other prophets. Do you consider the things they saw as 'factual errors?" Do you apply the same standard to all? You don't, because of your bias in favor of one and against another. That's double-minded and willfully dishonest.

You don't like Enoch chariot, driven by the wind.... but you LOVE Ezekiel's. Stop exposing yourself. It's embarrassing for you and uncomfortable for others.

Ezekiel 1
And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Do you suppose that God made a mistake when He gave the scriptures, or He didn't know the full picture?

I don't believe God allowed His Word to be misunderstood .....even when recording.

I will say this... maybe the writers didn't understand the full implication of what they were being told to write. But they wrote as the Spirit of God moved them.

The OP is about Enoch and Enoch only.......

Are we all in agreement that the words in the 4 corners of the 27 books of the New Testament were inspired by God?

Can we also agree that the 27 books of the new testament were written in Koine Greek?

And can we also agree that for the hundreds of readily availably translations for all "Christian" bibles the translators more often or not do not agree.... What a surprise, eh?

So let us take a look at what was written in Koine Greek.

Anyone here have an understanding of Koine Greek? NO???

Then the closest I can offer is an English translation word by word where the Greek/English Interlinear says.

HEBREWS 11-5

πίστει ἐνὼχ μετετέθη τοῦ μὴ ἰδεῖν θάνατον καὶ οὐχ εὑρίσκετο
By faith, Enoch was translated - not to see death, and not he was found,


διότι μετέθηκεν αὐτὸν ὁ θεός πρὸ γὰρ τῆς μεταθέσεως αὐτοῦ
because translated him the God. For before the removal of him


μεμαρτύρηται εὐηρεστηκέναι τῷ θεῷ
he obtained witness to have pleased the God.

NOW:

I also looked to see if I could find an Aramaic Interlinear as that was another common language of the day, and I have 2 references , The first shows Aramaic and English.... The second just a translation.

HEB 11

HEBREWS {Study Tool} Chapter 11 ܐܝܬܝܗ ܕܝܢ ܗܝܡܢܘܬܐ ܦܝܣܐ ܥܠ ܐܝܠܝܢ ܕܐܝܬܝܗܝܢ ܒܣܒܪܐ ܐܝܟ ܗܘ ܕܗܘܝ ܠܗܝܢ ܒܣܘܥܪܢܐ ܘܓܠܝܢܐ...

theholyaramaicscriptures.weebly.com

ܒܗܝܡܢܘܬܐ ܐܫܬܢܝ ܚܢܘܟ ܘܡܘܬܐ ܠܐ ܛܥܡ ܘܠܐ ܐܫܬܟܚ ܡܛܠ
ܕܫܢܝܗ ܐܠܗܐ ܡܢ ܩܕܡ ܕܢܫܢܝܘܗܝ ܓܝܪ ܗܘܬ ܥܠܘܗܝ ܣܗܕܘܬܐ ܕܫܦܪ
ܠܐܠܗܐ

5 By Haymanutha {Faith}, Enoch was removed, not tasting death, and “was not found, because, he had been removed by Alaha {God},” for, from before his removal, there was a testimony concerning him, that he was pleasing unto Alaha {God}.

The Original Aramaic New Testament in Plain English (An American Translation of the Aramaic New Testament) Translated by Rev. Glenn David Bauscher

5. By faith, Enoch was transported away and he did not taste death, neither was he found, because God transported him away; for before he was to transport him, there was this testimony concerning him: "He pleased God."

AND the last Aramaic is

Hebrews 11 - Peshitta Aramaic New Testament NT John Etheridge 1849 James Murdock 1852 Online Parallel Bible Study

John Etheridge & James Murdock Aramaic New Testament with Strong's numbers in Hebrew-Greek. Read online Bible study, search parallel bibles, cross reference verses, compare translations & post comments in bible commentaries at qBible.com.

qbible.com

Aramaic NT Parallel English Translations​

11:5 Through faith Hanak was translated, and did not taste death; nor was he found, because Aloha had translated him: for before that he would translate him, there was respecting him the testimony that he pleased Aloha.​

11:5 By faith, Enoch was translated, and did not taste death; and he was not found, because God had translated him: for, before he translated him, there was testimony of him, that he pleased God.

I was going back to double check the Koine Greek translations other then the one I posted, but have not done a deep dive on that and I dont have a ready reference like I do for Aramaic.... so that will need to wait.

It is obvious that back in the day that the words used were translate and there is no way anyone could understand translated to mean taken up.

Now... before you all jump on me.... it is possible that it could have happened.... His being taken up... but the talk does not sound like that and this was an inspired writing by God.... NOT a translation from KJV, Bible Hub, the Bereans, or Wiki.... Also, we have what Jesus said about no one going to heaven, which is ignored by many.

If we go back to Genesis 5:24

Our common translation is

NASB95 ~Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

KJV ~ And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Berean~Enoch walked with God, and then he was no more, because God had taken him away.

Hebrew interlinear says....

Enoch with God and he [was] not for took him God

And walked	Conj-w | V-Hitpael-ConsecImperf-3ms
2585[e]	חֲנ֖וֹךְ ḥă-nō-wḵ	Enoch	N-proper-ms
854[e]	אֶת־ ’eṯ-	with	Prep
430[e]	הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm;	God	Art | N-mp
369[e]	וְאֵינֶ֕נּוּ wə-’ê-nen-nū	and he [was] not	Conj-w | Adv | 3ms
3588[e]	כִּֽי־ kî-	for	Conj
3947[e]	לָקַ֥ח lā-qaḥ	took	V-Qal-Perf-3ms
853[e]	אֹת֖וֹ ’ō-ṯōw	him	DirObjM | 3ms
430[e]	אֱלֹהִֽים׃ ’ĕ-lō-hîm.	God

So repeating: Back in the day when the authors were being inspired at to what to write.... you just cannot get to
Enoch was taken to heaven.....

 

[marks]

So disingenuous marks. Borderline dishonest. Certainly not intellectually honest. You side-step questions you don't like and pretend they weren't asked.

Give me a break!

You asked me for factual errors in Enoch, I posted a couple. You didn't respond to those, and deflected to the Biblical prophets. I'm not aware of factual errors in the Biblical prophets. There are plainly seen factual errors in the pseudopigrapha "The book of Enoch".

Do you want to have an intelligent discussion?

Then answer concerning the factual errors in the "Book of Enoch".

Or not. You want to make this personal, I'm not interested.

Yeah. On second thought, don't bother.

Whatever you want to do really. I showed you factual errors in your Enoch book, Do you believe there are factual errors in Ezekiel? Post them! Don't just post a vision, and say, what of it? That's vanity. Empty.

You don't like Enoch chariot, driven by the wind.... but you LOVE Ezekiel's.

Enoch's chariot? Ha! The sun. The sun, blown by the wind through the north to exit the eastern portal . . . His science is all wrong. Which puts the lie to the writing. God knows how the universe works.

Nice try mr. ed.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When all else fails, start calling people names! That's the way around here!

What a joke!

 

[Mr E]

When all else fails, start calling people names! That's the way around here!

What a joke!

Oh marks… you get yourself so worked up. Just address the point.

Don’t Tip toe… past the questions… past the questions.

 

[Mr E]

The OP is about Enoch and Enoch only.......

Are we all in agreement that the words in the 4 corners of the 27 books of the New Testament were inspired by God?

Can we also agree that the 27 books of the new testament were written in Koine Greek?

And can we also agree that for the hundreds of readily availably translations for all "Christian" bibles the translators more often or not do not agree.... What a surprise, eh?

So let us take a look at what was written in Koine Greek.

Anyone here have an understanding of Koine Greek? NO???

Then the closest I can offer is an English translation word by word where the Greek/English Interlinear says.



NOW:

I also looked to see if I could find an Aramaic Interlinear as that was another common language of the day, and I have 2 references , The first shows Aramaic and English.... The second just a translation.

HEB 11

HEBREWS {Study Tool} Chapter 11 ܐܝܬܝܗ ܕܝܢ ܗܝܡܢܘܬܐ ܦܝܣܐ ܥܠ ܐܝܠܝܢ ܕܐܝܬܝܗܝܢ ܒܣܒܪܐ ܐܝܟ ܗܘ ܕܗܘܝ ܠܗܝܢ ܒܣܘܥܪܢܐ ܘܓܠܝܢܐ...

theholyaramaicscriptures.weebly.com

AND the last Aramaic is

Hebrews 11 - Peshitta Aramaic New Testament NT John Etheridge 1849 James Murdock 1852 Online Parallel Bible Study

John Etheridge & James Murdock Aramaic New Testament with Strong's numbers in Hebrew-Greek. Read online Bible study, search parallel bibles, cross reference verses, compare translations & post comments in bible commentaries at qBible.com.

qbible.com

I was going back to double check the Koine Greek translations other then the one I posted, but have not done a deep dive on that and I dont have a ready reference like I do for Aramaic.... so that will need to wait.

It is obvious that back in the day that the words used were translate and there is no way anyone could understand translated to mean taken up.

Now... before you all jump on me.... it is possible that it could have happened.... His being taken up... but the talk does not sound like that and this was an inspired writing by God.... NOT a translation from KJV, Bible Hub, the Bereans, or Wiki.... Also, we have what Jesus said about no one going to heaven, which is ignored by many.

If we go back to Genesis 5:24

Our common translation is

NASB95 ~Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

KJV ~ And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Berean~Enoch walked with God, and then he was no more, because God had taken him away.

Hebrew interlinear says....

Enoch with God and he [was] not for took him God

And walked	Conj-w | V-Hitpael-ConsecImperf-3ms
2585[e]	חֲנ֖וֹךְ ḥă-nō-wḵ	Enoch	N-proper-ms
854[e]	אֶת־ ’eṯ-	with	Prep
430[e]	הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm;	God	Art | N-mp
369[e]	וְאֵינֶ֕נּוּ wə-’ê-nen-nū	and he [was] not	Conj-w | Adv | 3ms
3588[e]	כִּֽי־ kî-	for	Conj
3947[e]	לָקַ֥ח lā-qaḥ	took	V-Qal-Perf-3ms
853[e]	אֹת֖וֹ ’ō-ṯōw	him	DirObjM | 3ms
430[e]	אֱלֹהִֽים׃ ’ĕ-lō-hîm.	God

So repeating: Back in the day when the authors were being inspired at to what to write.... you just cannot get to
Enoch was taken to heaven.....

As a matter of practicality it’s quite likely that the original accounts would have been written in Galilean Aramaic. These disciples of Jesus were after all, primarily Galilean. The Greek manuscripts and fragments thereof that have survived are obviously the work of copyists much later in time.

I think the pishetta is a great source or ancient Syriac/Aramaic. Much closer to the fire than any later transcribed Greek copies/translations disseminated for distribution.