Deflection.
Address the content, not making things up about me.
Your last several posts have deflected from the factual errors contained in the Book of Enoch. We seem to be stuck there since you aren't addressing it.
Much love!
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What happened to Enoch? Would love some input on this.
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Address the content, not making things up about me.
Your last several posts have deflected from the factual errors contained in the Book of Enoch. We seem to be stuck there since you aren't addressing it.
Much love!
What happened to Enoch? Would love some input on this.
I have not read the whole thread and I don't know if anyone answered it this way....
2 Corinthians 5:8 reads:
8) "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord...."
Don't know if God took Enoch or he had died. God was not specific. But I do know that when a believer dies, his soul goes to heaven to be with the LORD, while his body returns to the dust until it is resurrected on the last day.
Hope this help.
To God Be The Glory
Agreed... though most do not relate Aramaic and Jesus in the same sentence.... much less a specific dialect.
Ah.... The Peshitta: I am the one who made these Aramaic words blue, for easier reading.....Hebrews 11:5
(he tasted) Mej (not) al (& death) atwmw (Henok) Kwnx (was transported away) yntsa (by faith) atwnmyhb 5 (God) ahla (transported him away) hynsd (because) ljm (was he found) xktsa (neither) alw (about him) yhwle (there was) twh (for) ryg (He was to transport him) yhwynsnd (before) Mdq (from) Nm (God) ahlal (that he pleased) rpsd (the testimony) atwdho
The English above would read
he tasted not &death Henok was transported away by faith God transported him away because was he found neither about him there was for He was to transport him before from God that he pleased the testimony
Certainly not the easiest to read... but then most dialects in most languages also are not.
The interesting thing here is we have he was transport/transported mentioned 3 times. TRANSPORTED AWAY!!!
As to the Galilean.... I learned something today.... thank you.
What is Galilean Aramaic?
Early Galilean Aramaic, the mother tongue of Jesus, is a language that has all but fallen into obscurity. It is perhaps one of the least understood of the ancient Aramaic dialects and is very disti…
aramaicnt.org
Galilean Aramaic (increasingly referred to as Jewish Palestinian Aramaic) is a Western dialect of Aramaic. Its closest contemporary cousins were Samaritan Aramaic and Christian Palestinian Aramaic (CPA), all of which share similar features. While there are a number of modern Eastern Aramaic dialects, the only dialect of Western Aramaic that survives to this day is spoken in the three villages of Ma’loula, Bakh’a, and Jub’addin in Syria (collectively known as the Ma’loula dialect). Sadly with current events and violence in the middle east, the fate of this dialect is uncertain.
Which led me to
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic - Wikipedia
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic
Language
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic or Jewish Western Aramaic was a Western Aramaic language spoken by the Jews during the Classic Era in Judea and the Levant, specifically in Hasmonean, Herodian and Roman Judea and adjacent lands in the late first millennium BCE, and later in Syria Palaestina and Palaestina Secunda in the early first millennium CE.
To me it's a simple thing. "And he was not, because God took him." Where did Enoch go? He's with God, that's Who took Him. How could a mortal man be with God? God translated him.
Much love!
Agreed... though most do not relate Aramaic and Jesus in the same sentence.... much less a specific dialect.
Hebrews 11:5
(he tasted) Mej (not) al (& death) atwmw (Henok) Kwnx (was transported away) yntsa (by faith) atwnmyhb 5 (God) ahla (transported him away) hynsd (because) ljm (was he found) xktsa (neither) alw (about him) yhwle (there was) twh (for) ryg (He was to transport him) yhwynsnd (before) Mdq (from) Nm (God) ahlal (that he pleased) rpsd (the testimony) atwdho
The English above would read
he tasted not &death Henok was transported away by faith God transported him away because was he found neither about him there was for He was to transport him before from God that he pleased the testimony
Certainly not the easiest to read... but then most dialects in most languages also are not.
The interesting thing here is we have he was transport/transported mentioned 3 times. TRANSPORTED AWAY!!!
As to the Galilean.... I learned something today.... thank you.
What is Galilean Aramaic?
Early Galilean Aramaic, the mother tongue of Jesus, is a language that has all but fallen into obscurity. It is perhaps one of the least understood of the ancient Aramaic dialects and is very disti…aramaicnt.orgGalilean Aramaic (increasingly referred to as Jewish Palestinian Aramaic) is a Western dialect of Aramaic. Its closest contemporary cousins were Samaritan Aramaic and Christian Palestinian Aramaic (CPA), all of which share similar features. While there are a number of modern Eastern Aramaic dialects, the only dialect of Western Aramaic that survives to this day is spoken in the three villages of Ma’loula, Bakh’a, and Jub’addin in Syria (collectively known as the Ma’loula dialect). Sadly with current events and violence in the middle east, the fate of this dialect is uncertain.
Which led me to
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic - Wikipedia
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic
Language
Jewish Palestinian Aramaic or Jewish Western Aramaic was a Western Aramaic language spoken by the Jews during the Classic Era in Judea and the Levant, specifically in Hasmonean, Herodian and Roman Judea and adjacent lands in the late first millennium BCE, and later in Syria Palaestina and Palaestina Secunda in the early first millennium CE.
Here's a tidbit. The Greek translations use a specific word, that we then render as translated or "transported." As English speakers-- transported means simply to be carried away, or moved from one spot to another. The Greek text uses a different word when referencing Phillip's experience with the Ethiopian Eunuch.
...the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip (harpazo) versus By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him. (metatitheme)
Distinctly different.
Paul knew a man who was (harpazo) taken up into the third heaven, but admittedly couldn't say whether this was physical or spiritual.
When Elijah was taken up-- the word used in Hebrew means 'to ascend.' In Genesis, a different Hebrew word is used to describe Enoch (laqach) -- it's more like transport, than ascend.
Finally, in Revelation-- the two resurrected witnesses get a different word again (anabaino)
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
This is yet again different than the words used to describe Jesus ascending (epairo and analambano).
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Rinse and repeat......
Now @marks, and also @Mr E ... before you both correct me with your ideas on where Enoch went before Noah's flood I will try again to explain my view and why.
YES.... NOW HE IS WITH GOD.
But I still submit that unless Jesus (God on earth) was deliberately trying to mislead Nicodemus after all of His confusing talk to Nick,, about being born again... by saying No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.
NO ONE HAS.... Not Enoch... not Elijah.... no one.
And before advancing from John remember also it is said in John 6:46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. So whether you feel he was taken to heaven and is standing beside Him on one side.... It could not have been before the crucifixion/resurrection happened......
AND NOT the thief on the cross either for Jesus said to him...Luke 23:43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” (Upper Sheol has often been called Paradise)
(A statement that of itself begs for a thread of its own for the simple reason that IF , as we all know, the punctuations were added by translators... and not in original text... had they moved the comma byu one word....it would read~ Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise. That carries an entirely different meaning)
However, I digress............................. and I need to explain the following and why I believe Enoch is now in heaven...
but did not get there until following Jesus' crucifixion.
The apostles creed states.... "He descended into hell"
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” Which would not necessarily mean the dead....
The New Testament Greek equivalent of sheol is hades, which also refers to “the place of the dead.”
Other passages in the New Testament indicate that sheol/hades is a temporary place, where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15 gives a clear distinction between hades and the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost.
Hades, then, is a temporary place.
Many people refer to both hades and the lake of fire as “hell,” and this causes confusion.
Jesus did not go to a place of torment after His death, but He did go to hades.
Further....
Sheol/hades is a realm with two divisions—a place of blessing and a place of judgment
Look at Acts 2:27 Because You will not abandon my soul to Hades, Nor allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.
The abodes of the saved and the lost are both generally called “hades” in the Bible.
In LUKE 16:22 ....The abode of the saved is also called “Abraham’s bosom” in king Jimmy's Bible or “Abraham’s side” in the NIV
BUT enter LUKE 23:43 and “paradise” in most translations.
Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus????? The example of the abodes of the saved and the lost are separated by a “great chasm”. We read that in Luke 16:26 .
When Jesus died, He went to the blessed side of sheol, or paradise.
Some people believe that Eph 4:8-10 that Jesus took believers with Him from sheol to another place of bliss that we now call heaven.
Others say Eph. 4 more likely refers to the ascension of Christ... And all the unbelieving dead go to the cursed side of hades to await the final judgment, while all the believing dead go to the blessed side of hades to await the resurrection.
I come down on the side of Jesus taking believers out of Sheol to heaven. And that is in part because of Mathew 27:52 "The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;" (If they saw their own resurrection , which I believe, and there is no where written that tehy went back into their tombs..... then I must believe Jesus took believers with Him from sheol to another place of bliss that we now call heaven.
Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes, There can be no doubt.
Did God transfer Enoch to somewhere? Yes. But not to heaven... I firmly believe he was put into
Upper Sheol/Paradise.....
Great post! There's much here, I'm fully on the same page.
I'll point out that in speaking to Nicodemas, Jesus told him not that no one had ever been to heaven, rather, that no one had gone there on their own. That distinction is in the grammar of the sentence, so there wouldn't have been any deception.
Revelation 4:3-4 KJV
3) And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4) And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
1 Timothy 6:16 KJV
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Here are 24 elders seated around God's throne. I'm thinking that they also cannot see God, who is a Spirit, and lives in light. Therefore I don't see a difficulty with this. There will also be the innumerable multitude before the throne, in chapter 7. I think that will be all those "in Christ", us. And we will only see light, but not God. We will see God, Jesus!
We could talk about that if you like. Personally I think that would be poor translation. Some think it makes sense in English either way, to me it's stilted, and more so in the Greek.
I have the same understandings on these things.
Regarding Ephesians 4, I think that Jesus entered sheol into the side of comfort, and took those ones into heaven, having fulfilled His sacrifice that would remove, and not merely cover, their sin.
Regarding the dead raised at Jesus' crucifixion, I have to leave it silent, since the Bible doesn't tell us. I think there is a church tradition that when Jesus ascended into heaven, that these also visibly ascended with Him. I just can't say one way or the other.
Some people think we all arrive into heaven at the same time, that time in heaven is different. And that translates into "soul sleep" to some people. For me it would more mean that we leave this time, and enter that time.
My thinking is more along the lines that the OT faithful were brought by Jesus into heaven, and that the OT martyrs are those "under the altar" in the 5th Seal of chapter 6 of the Revelation. I think that we who are "in Christ" are alive in the celestial realm (seated together in the heavenlies with Christ, hid with Christ in God), and that when we die in this world, we remain alive in the heavenly realm, only, without the senses of our flesh to experience this world through, we will be awake to that realm, able at last to actually experience being in God's presence, once by faith, and then by sight.
Only of course we won't actually see Him Who is a Spirit, Who lives in unapproachable light. But we will see Jesus.
Something else I think about is that Jesus forgave sins before the cross. Hebrews tells us that without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. So how could Jesus forgive sins before He shed His blood? I have to think, His IS God, so, He can do that. And maybe it has something to do with His eternal nature that He is truly fully sovereign, to forgive a sinner, to bring a man to heaven, to seat 24 elders around His thone.
Might Enoch actually be one of those elders? I don't know.
Anyway, I really appreciated your explanation to me! And I'm not going to be dogmatic about it, I'm not fully settled on this.
Much love!
"Sounds Greek to me" (pardon the pun), but reasonably explained. Well done.
To God Be The Glory
How so?
John 3:13
“No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Did Jesus lie or did John misunderstand?
I'm glad you finally got around to asking. It's important.
No, Jesus didn't lie and John didn't misunderstand-- but you do. They understood and spoke truthfully because they were talking about something specific, while you are generalizing. I'll explain what I mean...
When Jesus spoke (as John recorded in John 3) he was speaking specifically about the son of man who first descends, then ascends back into heaven. He was not speaking about humanity, or people in a general sense the way that you or I might consider ourselves to be a son of man because we are descendants of Adam-- the first human. In that way of thinking, all people would be sons of man and fruit of that one tree. But that isn't what Jesus is talking about. Even Adam, that first man received the spirit (of God) -- the breath of life, which God breathed into him--- the first human being with the very spirit of God gifted unto (and into) him. It is this spirit (of God) given to Adam that descended from heaven and it is this same spirit that ascends back to heaven when our physical end comes.
That's the first point you may have been missing. Secondly-- this can all be seen clearly in that Jesus (and John) would be making a direct reference to this specific spiritual understanding and not the general sense of 'humanity' that you are trying to infer. Their usage of that title 'son of man' isn't random. It isn't the- ben adam (son of adam/man) that we are all a part of, but the ben enash (son of a man) referenced in Daniel 7 that was not a physical person, but a spiritual being-- a spiritual son of a spiritual being-- the son of God. Spirit gives birth to spirit, flesh gives birth to flesh --- and this is a reference to the spiritual sense as in that original instance with Adam in the beginning, that life that is heavenly, that is God-breathed into us.
The context that Jesus is using as a framework (Daniel 7) makes it very clear that he (Daniel) isn't talking about men in general.
I was watching in the night visions, And with the clouds of the sky, one like a son of man was approaching. He went up to the Ancient of Days and was escorted before him. To him was given ruling authority, honor, and sovereignty. All peoples, nations, and language groups were serving him. His authority is eternal and will not pass away. His kingdom will not be destroyed.
It's a heavenly scene -a glimpse into the Kingdom of Heaven, the Kingdom of God where the Father, the Ancient of Days in spirit, is seated upon His throne and giving authority to His spiritual son who then leaves that realm and descends to that realm below in obedience-- for God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son to save it, as written in that most famous passage in John who previously specified that he was talking about all of this in this specific spiritual context--
John 1-
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory—the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’” For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Enoch was taken somewhere for sure and i do not believe Enoch died.
The Two Witnesses of Revelation are Enoch and Elijah = the same Two Witnesses who did not see death but were taken up.
Their appointment with 'death' was placed on 'hold' until Revelation 11:1-13
Scripture identifies who/what these two witnesses are... John is simply seeing what Zechariah first had seen.
And I will grant my two witnesses authorityto prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.” (These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.)
It says the two witnesses are the two olive trees, and the two lampstands. This is a direct reference to Zechariah's testimony- things he saw in spirit.
The angelic messenger who had been speaking with me then returned and woke me, as a person is wakened from sleep. He asked me, “What do you see?” I replied, “I see a menorah of pure gold with a receptacle at the top. There are seven lamps at the top, with seven pipes going to the lamps. There are also two olive trees beside it, one on the right of the receptacle and the other on the left.” Then I asked the messenger who spoke with me, “What are these, sir?” He replied, “Don’t you know what these are?” So I responded, “No, sir.” Therefore he told me, “This is the LORD’s message to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by strength and not by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies.
“What are you, you great mountain? Because of Zerubbabel you will become a level plain! And he will bring forth the temple capstone with shoutings of ‘Grace! Grace!’ because of this.” Moreover, the LORD’s message came to me as follows: “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundations of this temple, and his hands will complete it. Then you will know that the LORD of Heaven’s Armies has sent me to you. For who dares make light of small beginnings? These seven eyes will joyfully look on the tin tablet in Zerubbabel’s hand. These are the eyes of the LORD, which constantly range across the whole earth.”
Next I asked the messenger, “What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the menorah?” Before he could reply I asked again, “What are these two extensions of the olive trees, which are emptying out the golden oil through the two golden pipes?” He replied, “Don’t you know what these are?” And I said, “No, sir.” So he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
The "soul goes to heaven"?
ECC 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!"
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Both spirit and soul goes to heaven.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Nope.
At least not generally so unless you are using Rev 20:4 with a preterist mindset.
What do you know about Sheol?
Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Sheol
I am not talking about when Paradise eventually moved to heaven.
Bible Indicates Paradise Was Once Part Of Hades
www.devotions.com
We are told in Ecclesiastes 12:7
NASB 1995
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
So your body decays in the ground and your spirit has gone back to God. NO mention of Paradise.
But upper Sheol or Paradise where Jesus joined the thief from the cross and where Jesus went during his 3 days after crucifixion was a place where some part of man was.. waiting for ???? judgement.
Jesus' Descension To Sheol: What It Is And Isn't • Things Above Us
A Twitter-kerfuffle erupted this week when various news agencies reported Hollywood star Mel Gibson is working on a sequel to the wildly popular Passion of ...
thingsabove.us
But why, exactly, did Jesus descend to Sheol, or, as the Apostles’ Creed puts it rather unhelpfully, “Hell”?
Here are three reasons Jesus went down there:
1. HE PREACHED THE GOOD NEWS OF HIS RESURRECTION TO THE RIGHTEOUS SHEOL-DWELLERS.
They needed sin’s expiation, and they finally got it; so Christ anounced the incredible news to them in the upper-chamber of Sheol.2. CHRIST DELIVERED PRE-RESURRECTION BELIEVERS OUT OF HADES FOR GOOD.
Remember that strange scene immediately after Jesus yielded up his spirit in Matthew 27? All those people who rose from graves and walked Jerusalem (though they would die again) were proof that times… they were a’ changing.
3. CHRIST OFFICIALLY DOOMED THE NOAH-ERA SINNERS.
Now I could post much on Sheol and its purpose but space here will not permit. The article on Jesus' descension is well worth clicking to read.
SO... We have a body turning back to dust.
We have a spirit who already went back to God.
THAT LEAVES US WITH...
Having a soul that either was condemned already or going to Upper Sheol/Paradise
to await when Jesus released them
And it is my belief that after that then Paradise was moved to ..... dare I say this cause it seems appropriate... the suburbs of Heaven proper where we will wait until whatever happens happens.....
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
What is this “upper chamber of Sheol”? And where will I find it any belief of the Jews according to their scripture?
Understanding what the “bosom“ is can show us exactly what Jesus meant in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which was never meant to be taken literally.
The word “bosom” is used in a manner very similar to the usage of breast, although it often has reference to the fold in the upper part of the robe, rather than to the breast itself.
A dearly beloved or cherished one would be held close to one’s bosom (Heb., chehq), the way Naomi held Ruth’s baby Obed, in acknowledging him as the legal heir of Naomi’s dead husband Elimelech. (Ruth 4:16)
In the custom of reclining at meals, the one in front of the bosom of another was in a position of intimacy with him, generally the favored position. (John 13:23) Jesus employed this well-known custom in illustrating Lazarus as being in “the bosom position of Abraham,” signifying a position of favor with God.
The apostle John described Jesus as being “in the bosom position with the Father,” as the one intimate with Jehovah, the one person who could explain God to a fuller and more thorough extent than any other. (John 1:18)
Simply put, Sheol has no “chambers” for it is itself a chamber that the Jews understood was the place from which God would call the unconscious dead in the promised resurrection. The Jews had no belief in an afterlife that involved some spiritual part of man that departed from the body at death. That idea infiltrated later from Greek influence. All false worship contains belief in an afterlife…..but the Jews originally never had such a belief. Death was death…a cessation of life till the promised resurrection.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Again, what did Jesus promise the thief? Could he have been with Jesus in Paradise that day?
What does the Bible say? Jesus said that he would be in the heart of the earth just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish, for three days. Jonah was captive, held inside that fish, just as Jesus was captive inside his tomb for three days. He did not experience a resurrection until God raised him after that time. He did not go anywhere…..just as his friend Lazarus did not go anywhere when Jesus returned him to life. Lazarus was in his tomb for 4 days.
Add to that the fact that Jesus remained on earth for 40 days after his resurrection in spiritual form, (1 Pet 3:18) “appearing” to his disciples and others in physical form, as angels had done in times past, so the thief was NOT in paradise with Jesus that day at all. The comma belongs after the word “today” Because Jesus spoke of the coming resurrection, not the departing of the man’s spirit to join Jesus in paradise that day.
What Jesus promised the thief was a resurrection in paradise on earth when the kingdom rules redeemed mankind. Jesus promised to resurrect the righteous as well as the unrighteous at that time. (John 5:28-29)
This man was not a disciple, but a thief paying his debt under the law. He had a last minute change of heart and a wonderful promise from Jesus that his death would not be permanent.
Since the Bible does not teach that we have a soul, but that we are a soul whilst ever we breathe, death is the end of this life. (Eccl 9:5, 10) There is no conscious part of man that survives death….it was the devil who told the woman she “surely will not die” and he has been promoting that lie ever since.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
No…he preached to “the spirits in prison”….those who were disobedient in Noah’s day….the ones responsible for bringing the human race to ruin in those days. God had forced those disobedient angels back into the spirit realm where he dealt with them, throwing them into a prison-like condition called Tartarus. (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) The “chains of dense darkness” meant no enlightenment from God at all. And they would never be able to materialize again. They would have to perform their evil deeds through humans commandeered to do their bidding. They had no trouble finding recruits.
Those in Sheol are not conscious.….but satan’s lies have overpowered that truth.
Actually again, this is a gross misinterpretation of what really happened.
It was at the hour that Christ died that the bodies of these “saints” were cast out of their tombs by the earthquake that occurred when Jesus took his last breath. If this was a resurrection of those saints, then they were reised before Jesus. The account is poorly worded in English, but stated facts in the Bible prove that this was not a resurrection at all. The “saints” were not to be raised till Christ’s return, a period in which all the events foretold in Matt 24 would take place, and a time when the “saints“ were to be raised “first”….when he was going to take them home. (1 Thess 4:15-17)
The spirit is not the soul. The spirit is what animates the soul, much like electricity animates a device to which it is connected. Once the disconnection takes place, the device becomes lifeless. The spirit goes out, much like a candle is extinguished….the light “goes out“ but it doesn’t leave the room and go somewhere else. (Psalm 146:4)
So what is the spirit that returns to God who gave it?
This is again speaking of the resurrection…..the time when God restores life by giving a new body, “breath” to reactivate that soul. A soul only lives when it breathes. There are no souls in heaven…..but there are spirit beings who have no need of the kind of life support that we earth dweller require.
Can you see why there is so much confusion when people try to prop up foreign ideas that fight with the written word? Contradictions abound and people are left not knowing what to believe.
Just knowing that there is no immortal soul takes care of all the nonsense about life after death….there is no “heaven or hell” scenario ever mentioned as opposite destinations in God’s word. There is just “life or death”….that’s it. (Deut 30:19-20)
We either qualify for spirit life in heaven, chosen by God himself as rulers and priests (Rev 20:6) in his kingdom by Christ Jesus, (so that there is no argument about who is and who isn’t chosen)….or there is restored life on earth by means of a promised resurrection, as subjects of that kingdom, bringing humanity back to God’s original purpose. (Rev 21:2-4)
The Bible is one story about God’s relationship with man and his purpose in being placed here on this carefully prepared home planet. There is so much concentration on ‘going to heaven’, that people forget that we were never designed to go there…..this earth was lovingly created to be our permanent home….and God himself made everlasting life on earth possible for mortal beings “made in his image”. The “tree of life” was the means and obedience would have meant unrestricted access to it. (Gen 3:22-24)
Disobedience caused an interruption to God’s original purpose, but it did not cancel it. (Isaiah 55:11) Jehovah simply took a detour which would create the necessary precedents so that rebellion could never happen again. We have seen and experienced a life that we never want to live again. Lessons learned.
God’s first purpose can then go ahead….as it should have in the beginning….
Enoch walking with God indicates to me a body.
God took him sort of sounds like his soul departed.
God has appointed death for at least One time, yet some have died, been revived, and died a second time.
Enoch is a guess. IDK
Paradise is where the Tree of Life is.
Was in the Garden of Eden.
Was in Hell’s comfort side ie Abraham’s bosom.
IS in Heaven.
Shall once again be on Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
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