What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

[farouk]

I don't love Christ because I'm trying to afraid some eternal barbecue if I don't. And frankly, I find such fear-based motivation to be... extremely undesirable in any relationship, let alone the most important one (with God). Rather, I come to Christ out of love and emulate Him out of that love. And He of course makes that change possible (I'm not the one doing any of the heavy lifting here).

Christ saves us from death: physical and spiritual. Physical in that we will all physically live again-- every single person will be resurrected. And spiritual in that our spiritual separation from God (that separation we bring about via sin) can be removed and we can be with Him more fully.

LDS view of the afterlife for unrepentant sinners doesn't involve an eternal barbecue. But it does involve that eternal separation from the greater portion of God and His light, because no unclean thing can dwell with Him.

What about our sins that will keep us from God's eternal and holy presence?
" And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21.27)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What about our sins that will keep us from God's eternal and holy presence?

No unclean thing can enter His presence. We must be washed of our sins by the Savior.

" And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21.27)

Good verse.

 

[Mayflower]

I don't love Christ because I'm trying to afraid some eternal barbecue if I don't. And frankly, I find such fear-based motivation to be... extremely undesirable in any relationship, let alone the most important one (with God). Rather, I come to Christ out of love and emulate Him out of that love. And He of course makes that change possible (I'm not the one doing any of the heavy lifting here).

Christ saves us from death: physical and spiritual. Physical in that we will all physically live again-- every single person will be resurrected. And spiritual in that our spiritual separation from God (that separation we bring about via sin) can be removed and we can be with Him more fully.

LDS view of the afterlife for unrepentant sinners doesn't involve an eternal barbecue. But it does involve that eternal separation from the greater portion of God and His light, because no unclean thing can dwell with Him.

It is interesting, because from what my sister tells me, she is Jewish, and sort of believes the same way. What do you believe the Bible is talking about when Jesus teaches there shall be "weeping and gnashing of teeth?"

 

[farouk]

It is interesting, because from what my sister tells me, she is Jewish, and sort of believes the same way. What do you believe the Bible is talking about when Jesus teaches there shall be "weeping and gnashing of teeth?"

Relevant question, yes, indeed. John 3.16

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It is interesting, because from what my sister tells me, she is Jewish, and sort of believes the same way. What do you believe the Bible is talking about when Jesus teaches there shall be "weeping and gnashing of teeth?"

Sadness on missing out being with God.

The afterlife of unrepentant sinners is a very comofrtable-- wonders and physical comforts and (shallow) happiness much more than you or I could dream of today.

But the Father does not reside there. And there is that deep sadness for not being with Him.

 

[Mayflower]

Sadness on missing out being with God.

The afterlife of unrepentant sinners is a very comofrtable-- wonders and physical comforts and (shallow) happiness much more than you or I could dream of today.

But the Father does not reside there. And there is that deep sadness for not being with Him.

Sort of reminds me of this episode from the "Twilight Zone." A long time ago. He had everything, but it was only him there. And in the end he was bored out of his mind and found out from the man who brought him there it was Hell.

Just a thought provoking image that stuck with me of what it would be like to have everything, but without God. I'd rather have God only, then any riches of this world. Jesus saves, not only from Hell, but feels that void inside of each of us.

So what leaves me the most curious is what you believe about Joseph Smith and why. Why did you choose Mormonism?

 

[farouk]

Sort of reminds me of this episode from the "Twilight Zone." A long time ago. He had everything, but it was only him there. And in the end he was bored out of his mind and found out from the man who brought him there it was Hell.

Just a thought provoking image that stuck with me of what it would be like to have everything, but without God. I'd rather have God only, then any riches of this world. Jesus saves, not only from Hell, but feels that void inside of each of us.

So what leaves me the most curious is what you believe about Joseph Smith and why. Why did you choose Mormonism?

Hebrews 1, which speaks of the Lord Jesus Who 'by Himself purged our sins', is so important, I feel. There was indeed a reason why He the Sinless One had to die at the Cross. In Him only is the believer secure.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Just a thought provoking image that stuck with me of what it would be like to have everything, but without God. I'd rather have God only, then any riches of this world. Jesus saves, not only from Hell, but feels that void inside of each of us.

Amen!

Why did you choose Mormonism?

In short: I go where Christ commands me to go and where He tells me His Truth is.

There's been a mountain of study, prayer, contemplation, etc behind things. But I honestly have gone where He commands me to. I love visiting other churches (Christian and non) and hearing about what they believe. And there is a TON of stuff there I admire and respect. But I don't find that command or fullness of Truth.

Of course, I do 100% respect other people's journeys.

 

[Mayflower]

Amen!

In short: I go where Christ commands me to go and where He tells me His Truth is.

There's been a mountain of study, prayer, contemplation, etc behind things. But I honestly have gone where He commands me to. I love visiting other churches (Christian and non) and hearing about what they believe. And there is a TON of stuff there I admire and respect. But I don't find that command or fullness of Truth.

Of course, I do 100% respect other people's journeys.

I can understand that.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12 KJV

 

[justbyfaith]

LDS view of the afterlife for unrepentant sinners doesn't involve an eternal barbecue.

So then, do you cut out of your Bibles (with scissors) the verses that speak of "an eternal barbecue"?

 

[justbyfaith]

Personally, I have enough of a task understanding the many pages of the Bible...the way I figure it, I want to be an expert on the word before I start delving into anything called "another Testament of Jesus Christ".

btw, doesn't "another Testament" = "another gospel"?

See Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

Also, doesn't it say in Jude 1:3 that the faith was "once delivered to the saints"?

When was it delivered, and how many times?

Once, in the Book of Mormon? Once, in the Pearl of Great Price? Once, in the doctrine and covenants? (Four times?)

Or, once, in the Holy Bible?

It seems to me that the last option is most plausible, since the statement that the faith was "once delivered to the saints" is found in the Holy Bible.

 

[farouk]

I can understand that.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12 KJV

Good quote there from Philippians. It's among my favorite Epistles (if we are supposed to have favorites...)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So then, do you cut out of your Bibles (with scissors) the verses that speak of "an eternal barbecue"?

I actually talked specifically about those verses earlier (post 145)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

btw, doesn't "another Testament" = "another gospel"?

No, rather it's a another testimony and antlers witness of the Good News: that Christ, the Savior Son of God, has come, suffered for our sins, died, and rose again. And He is the way for our redemption.

See Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

I love these scriptures. Galatians 1 (the whole chapter) is actually a key part of the reason I am LDS.

Also, doesn't it say in Jude 1:3 that the faith was "once delivered to the saints"?

That doesn't mean we quit testifying of God!
Nor does God shut up and quit testifying to us.
Rather these things and these joys are continuous.

 

[justbyfaith]

I do not see the verses being dealt with in post #145.

Some verses on hell speak specifically about burning in fire and brimstone...i.e. the eternal barbecue that you are adverse to in your thinking.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I do not see the verses being dealt with in post #145.

Some verses on hell speak specifically about burning in fire and brimstone...i.e. the eternal barbecue that you are adverse to in your thinking.

Metaphors of the regret. Not a literal barbecue.

 

[justbyfaith]

Metaphors of the regret. Not a literal barbecue.

If you say so...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you say so...

Just explaining my beliefs, hence the title of the thread

If you believe differently, I 100% respect that and your right to do so.

 

[justbyfaith]

You also have the right to believe as you wish.

However, Jesus did say that the way to life is narrow, and few there be that find it; and that the opposite path, entered through the broad way, is the path to destruction. Matthew 7:13-14.

You should also consider that Joseph Smith did not live until the latter half of the second millennium after Christ suffered and died for us. So if his path is the narrow path that Jesus is speaking of, then all of the people who lived from the time of Christ to the time of Joseph Smith, who believed that they were saved through faith in Christ, are, in fact, lost.

Because there is nothing in the Old or New Testament that points forward to Joseph Smith; while there are many things in the Old Testament that point forward to Jesus Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You also have the right to believe as you wish.

However, Jesus did say that the way to life is narrow, and few there be that find it; and that the opposite path, entered through the broad way, is the path to destruction. Matthew 7:13-14.

Amen to that!

Hence my many hours of study and prayer on all of these subjects. (Ok, that's not the only reason I study/pray, I also just enjoy it a lot).

You should also consider that Joseph Smith did not live until the latter half of the second millennium after Christ suffered and died for us. So if his path is the narrow path that Jesus is speaking of, then all of the people who lived from the time of Christ to the time of Joseph Smith, who believed that they were saved through faith in Christ, are, in fact, lost.

Nonsense.

Just like saying "anyone who lived before Paul is lost" is a nonsensical statement. None of those men are the Savior. Christ is the Savior, and His sacrifice covers all that live at all times.

Because there is nothing in the Old or New Testament that points forward to Joseph Smith; while there are many things in the Old Testament that point forward to Jesus Christ.

Joseph Smith ain't the Savior, Perfect Son of God.