What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

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justbyfaith

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If the Book of Mormon isn't a different gospel, then why even read it? There isn't any information in it that I wouldn't be able to ascertain simply from reading the Bible.

If it is a different gospel, then Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv) apply.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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If the Book of Mormon isn't a different gospel, then why even read it? There isn't any information in it that I wouldn't be able to ascertain simply from reading the Bible.
The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all teach the same Good News.

Why bother reading all four of those books when they all teach the same message?
 

justbyfaith

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The faith was once delivered to the saints. I believe, in the Holy Bible.

I'm sorry, it doesn't fly with me that the faith which was once delivered to the saints was delivered again to Joseph Smith some 1700-1800 years later.

The Bible is a complete work, it is the faith which was once delivered to the saints. The canon of scripture was closed at the end of the book of Revelation.
 
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justbyfaith

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[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 477404, member: 7886"~]Personally, I have enough of a task understanding the many pages of the Bible...the way I figure it, I want to be an expert on the word before I start delving into anything called "another Testament of Jesus Christ".

btw, doesn't "another Testament" = "another gospel"?

See Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

Also, doesn't it say in Jude 1:3 that the faith was "once delivered to the saints"?

When was it delivered, and how many times?

Once, in the Book of Mormon? Once, in the Pearl of Great Price? Once, in the doctrine and covenants? (Four times?)

Or, once, in the Holy Bible?

It seems to me that the last option is most plausible, since the statement that the faith was "once delivered to the saints" is found in the Holy Bible.
[~/QUOTE]
 
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Jane_Doe22

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The faith was once delivered to the saints. I believe, in the Holy Bible.

I'm sorry, it doesn't fly with me that the faith which was once delivered to the saints was delivered again to Joseph Smith some 1700-1800 years later.

The Bible is a complete work, it is the faith which was once delivered to the saints. The canon of scripture was closed at the end of the book of Revelation.
(Again, just explaining my beliefs, not trying to get anyone to change theirs)

God doesn't stop love nor stop talking to His children. Revelation, scripture, prophesy, etc continue to flow. That doesn't stop with 66/81/72/etc books in the Bible.
When was it delivered, and how many times?

Once, in the Book of Mormon? Once, in the Pearl of Great Price? Once, in the doctrine and covenants? (Four times?)

Or, once, in the Holy Bible?
It's not a number of times. It's continually. God doesn't stop loving nor stop speaking to those that would hear. All pointing back to Christ and His sacrifice.
 

justbyfaith

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(Again, just explaining my beliefs, not trying to get anyone to change theirs)

God doesn't stop love nor stop talking to His children. Revelation, scripture, prophesy, etc continue to flow. That doesn't stop with 66/81/72/etc books in the Bible.

It's not a number of times. It's continually. God doesn't stop loving nor stop speaking to those that would hear. All pointing back to Christ and His sacrifice.
That is right. It is not a number of times, because the faith was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3.
 

Jane_Doe22

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That is right. It is not a number of times, because the faith was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3.
And then God was.....?
Why would a loving God stop talking to His children? Why would He abandon His people in that way?

You don't have to answer those questions. But to me, the idea of a closed canon raises those very questions and more.
 

justbyfaith

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"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25
This is a scripture that is often used to substantiate the gnostic writings.

I would point out that gnosticism is refuted by 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, Matthew 14:31, and Luke 24:39-43; and 1 John 1:1. Not to mention John 1:14.

John 21:25 is therefore not a substantiation of extra-canonical written works (that are outside of the Bible) as being inspired holy scripture.
 

Jane_Doe22

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This is a scripture that is often used to substantiate the gnostic writings.

I would point out that gnosticism is refuted by 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, Matthew 14:31, and Luke 24:39-43; and 1 John 1:1. Not to mention John 1:14.

John 21:25 is therefore not a substantiation of extra-canonical written works (that are outside of the Bible) as being inspired holy scripture.
To be frank: in all my travels in dozens of different churches, I've never met a Christian who was truly sola Biblia. I find a lot that claim that, but then also accept the Creeds, other traditions, various teaches (example: Calvin), etc as being authoritative.

Not saying that this is inherently a bad thing. Just stating my observation over the decades.
 
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justbyfaith

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And then God was.....?
Why would a loving God stop talking to His children? Why would He abandon His people in that way?

You don't have to answer those questions. But to me, the idea of a closed canon raises those very questions and more.
He speaks through His Holy Spirit what He wants to, by giving us more insight into the meaning of what He has revealed as a completed work to us; which is sufficient. Nothing else is needed. We can receive newer revelations through understanding the Bible as a coded work, i.e. 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

If the Book of Mormon brings added information that gives us greater revelation than that of the Bible, then it contains information that is different from the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints; and therefore amounts to a different gospel by my estimation.
 
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justbyfaith

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I find a lot that claim that, but then also accept the Creeds, other traditions, various teaches (example: Calvin), etc as being authoritative.
Not on the same level as holy scripture, mind you; but as useful for understanding doctrinal issues.
 

Jane_Doe22

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He speaks through His holy Spirit what He wants to, by giving us more insight into the meaning of what He has revealed as a completed work to us; which is sufficient. Nothing else is needed.
And why do you think God can't speak to the entire world to clarify His meaning? We've all seen at the many different interpretations of the Bible just on this forum.
Not on the same level as holy scripture, mind you; but as useful for understanding doctrinal issues.
How about instead of flawed men writing statements to help us understand things, a loving perfect God do so?
 

justbyfaith

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Except that the Book of Mormon in its statements ends up teaching false doctrines, such as salvation by works...i.e. "ye are saved by grace, after all that ye can do." opposite to the sound doctrine found in Titus 3:4-7, "not by works of righteousness which we have done..." and elsewhere in holy scripture (such as Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9).
 

justbyfaith

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Can you show that the Book of Mormon and its companions does not divert a man from the path that he would walk if he were just to continue on with the Bible?

If it would not, then I might consider it to be holy scripture; while I would also consider that the Bible is sufficient and therefore the Book of Mormon isn't needed.

If it would, then I would be wary of it; and if it cannot be shown that it wouldn't, then I would be wary of it.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Except that the Book of Mormon in its statements ends up teaching false doctrines, such as salvation by works...i.e. "ye are saved by grace, after all that ye can do." opposite to the sound doctrine found in Titus 3:4-7, "not by works of righteousness which we have done..." and elsewhere in holy scripture (such as Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9).
I don't remotely believe in salvation by works- that's an anti-Mormon myth. One so common I actually addressed in one the very first page of this thread.

My faith is entirely about Christ and He's the one that does the saving. You can't save yourself. You got to accept Christ. And yes, "accepting" is a verb- an action. That very same chapter that anti-Mormons love to misconstrue (2 Nephi 25 2 Nephi 25 ) actually points to how we NEED Christ and it's impossible by ourselves. Hence all of it's statement about the preaching of Christ and rejoicing in Christ -- so people may know to where we turn to for remission of sins-- that's what the entire chapter is about. Cause even after all you can do, even if you would to bend over backwards trying to be the best you can be, it's Christ that save yourself-- you NEVER can save yourself. It's impossible. Hence the proclaiming, the rejoceing, the teaching, etc.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Can you show that the Book of Mormon and its companions does not divert a man from the path that he would walk if he were just to continue on with the Bible?

If it would not, then I might consider it to be holy scripture; while I would also consider that the Bible is sufficient and therefore the Book of Mormon isn't needed.

If it would, then I would be wary of it; and if it cannot be shown that it wouldn't, then I wold be wary of it.
You didn't answer my previous question: why do you ned the books of Mark, Luke, and John if you already have Matthew?

These questions are silly. ALL of God's words work together and teach us. Yes they are teaching the same message: the Good News. But all with different angles, backgrounds, focuses, etc: all more witness of the Son of God. I don't shut any of it out.
 

amadeus

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This is a scripture that is often used to substantiate the gnostic writings.

I would point out that gnosticism is refuted by 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, Matthew 14:31, and Luke 24:39-43; and 1 John 1:1. Not to mention John 1:14.

John 21:25 is therefore not a substantiation of extra-canonical written works (that are outside of the Bible) as being inspired holy scripture.
Forget your gnosticism argument. Without looking it up again, I cannot even tell you what it means... if it really matters.

How many words are in the English language?
How many words are there in the Bible?
How many words has God spoken?
What is the largest number of words God can speak?
What are the boundaries of God?
How great is our God?

Are there any more foolish questions or conclusions based on what men say or do?

How about these words?

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
 
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