What I Like About Universalism

[aspen]

I don't think you know the answer yourself. Give it a try.

Now, who did Jesus say to fear?

Matthew 10:28 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Whom did Peter tell us to fear?

1 Peter 2:17 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

The answers are quite simple Aspen. Or are you too proud to admit you're wrong?

As soon as I am wrong, I will admit it. You can read my corrections all over this board - have you been wrong and admitted it, on this board?

Mathew is recounting a story where Jesus is telling His disciples not to fear people - BUT if they are going to insist on being afraid, at least they should fear God who has the power to destroy them. He then goes on to say that they do not even have to fear God because they are more valuable than sparrows and God cares for sparrows down to the last feather - also Jesus is their friend and also a friend of God; two reasons not to fear God. Like I said before - you are demanding me to answer a question that distorts this passage of scripture. Answering "God" to a rhetorical question is ridiculous because it makes the passage seem like we are supposed to be afraid of God, even when Jesus gives us two reasons not to fear Him.

Peter is telling us to honor everyone - including God. Then he continues by providing positive ways to respond to two different people and God. Notice "love" and "honor" are both positive - fear seems out of place, especially considering the commandment to love God; like Rach mentioned before, love and fear are incompatible. The reason, of course has been explained to you repeatedly, is that the word fear, based on the meaning of the original language, explains the emotion of a person who is experiencing awe, not terror. We are supposed to love, honor and be in awe of God.

 

[Duckybill]

So then Aspen, whom is Jesus telling us to fear if not God?

Matthew 10:28 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

I'll let you off the hook Aspen, since you aren't gonna answer anyway. That is, until you start saying the Bible doesn't teach us to fear God, again. But Jesus clearly said to fear God. He also taught about the Genesis Flood. But of course He is the God who drowned everyone but 8.

 

[aspen]

So then Aspen, whom is Jesus telling us to fear if not God?

Matthew 10:28 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Did you read my post? Are you only accepting the answer you want to hear, despite the context? You really want me to say, "Ducky, I apologize for misreading this passage by considering the original language and the context; by your authority, you are right and I am wrong; Jesus is indeed telling us to fear God, based on your interpretation, and in fact to be terrified of Him, rather than try to explain away the word fear as awe."

You do realize that you are alone in your interpretation of the word fear, don't you? Ah, but that only makes you feel even more right! because you are brave enough to stick to the truth in the face of persecution and by choosing the narrow gate.

Well Ducky if feeling right is that important to you, perhaps I need to do a better job of telling you what you want to hear in the first place, so that we can get that all out of the way and have a real discussion?

 

[Duckybill]

Did you read my post? Are you only accepting the answer you want to hear, despite the context? You really want me to say, "Ducky, I apologize for misreading this passage by considering the original language and the context; by your authority, you are right and I am wrong; Jesus is indeed telling us to fear God, based on your interpretation, and in fact to be terrified of Him, rather than try to explain away the word fear as awe."

You do realize that you are alone in your interpretation of the word fear, don't you? Ah, but that only makes you feel even more right! because you are brave enough to stick to the truth in the face of persecution and by choosing the narrow gate.

Well Ducky if feeling right is that important to you, perhaps I need to do a better job of telling you what you want to hear in the first place, so that we can get that all out of the way and have a real discussion?

If you were facing the furnace of fire you would be terrified whether you admit it or not, not just in awe of God. And when it comes to Biblical doctrine it matters VERY much whether we are right or not. It matters Aspen. The fear of God is one of the main Biblical doctrines. It matters.

 

[aspen]

If you were facing the furnace of fire you would be terrified whether you admit it or not, not just in awe of God. And when it comes to Biblical doctrine it matters VERY much whether we are right or not. It matters Aspen. The fear of God is one of the main Biblical doctrines. It matters.

If it matters that much, why are you refusing to research it? Don't you want to know the most accurate interpretation? You claim it is important, but then you hide your head in the sand when it comes to gathering the facts.

How does my reaction to God have anything to do with what we are called to do? Claiming that the word fear means awe doesn't mean that people are immune from being afraid of Him! You are causing words to flash in my head like 'preposterous!' and 'absurd!'

BTW, I am still waiting.

 

[Duckybill]

If it matters that much, why are you refusing to research it? Don't you want to know the most accurate interpretation? You claim it is important, but then you hide your head in the sand when it comes to gathering the facts.

What Scriptures are you referring to? Be glad to look em up!

How does my reaction to God have anything to do with what we are called to do? Claiming that the word fear means awe doesn't mean that people are immune from being afraid of Him! You are causing words to flash in my head like 'preposterous!' and 'absurd!'

If you really want to know the Truth, fearing God is the place to start.

Proverbs 1:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

BTW, I am still waiting.

I ask you a VERY simple question and you refuse to answer. You ask a VERY complex question that YOU cannot answer and you want my answer right now.

You have great animosity toward the Bible Aspen. I can no longer take you seriously concerning the Bible.

 

[aspen]

What Scriptures are you referring to? Be glad to look em up!

If you really want to know the Truth, fearing God is the place to start.

Proverbs 1:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

I ask you a VERY simple question and you refuse to answer. You ask a VERY complex question that YOU cannot answer and you want my answer right now.

You have great animosity toward the Bible Aspen. I can no longer take you seriously concerning the Bible.

Well Ducky, it looks like you really don't need me anymore anyway - you have your strawmen to talk with.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus said to fear God. There's no getting around it.

Matthew 10:28 (AMP)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

Matthew 10:28 (NASB)
[sup]28 [/sup]"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (NIV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (WesleyNT)
[sup]28 [/sup]And be not afraid of them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather be afraid of him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (NRSV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (YLT)
[sup]28 [/sup]`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Matthew 10:28 (BBE)
[sup]28 [/sup]And have no fear of those who put to death the body, but are not able to put to death the soul. But have fear of him who has power to give soul and body to destruction in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (MontgomeryNT)
[sup]28 [/sup]"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but fear rather him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 10:28 (Darby)
[sup]28 [/sup]And be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but fear rather him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (GW)
[sup]28 [/sup]Don't be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (KJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (MaceNT)
[sup]28 [/sup]fear not those who can only kill the body, but cannot hurt the soul: rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 10:28 (NASB77)
[sup]28 [/sup]"And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (NLT)
[sup]28 [/sup]“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (TLB)
[sup]28 [/sup]"Don’t be afraid of those who can kill only your bodies—but can’t touch your souls! Fear only God who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (WEY)
[sup]28 [/sup]"And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 10:28 (ASV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[aspen]

[font="Verdana][size="2"]
Luke 12:32
New International Version (NIV)

[sup]32[/sup] “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

[/size][/font][font="Verdana] [/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]Genesis 15:1
[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"][ The LORD’s Covenant With Abram ] After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward. ”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Genesis 26:24
That night the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Judges 6:23
But the LORD said to him, “Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Psalm 27:1
Of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation— whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life— of whom shall I be afraid?[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Isaiah 12:2
Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD himself, is my strength and my defense ; he has become my salvation.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Isaiah 43:5
Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Daniel 10:12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Matthew 10:31
So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Matthew 14:27
But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#ff0000"]
Matthew 17:5-7
New International Version (NIV)

[sup]5[/sup] While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

[sup]6[/sup] When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. [sup]7[/sup] But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.”

[/color][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]Mark 5:36
Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 6:20
But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 12:15
“Do not be afraid, Daughter Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey’s colt.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][/font][size="5"][font="Verdana][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1:17&version=31"]Revelation 1:17[/url][/b][/font]
[font="Verdana]When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be [b]afraid[/b]. I am the First and the Last.[/font]
[/color][/size][font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="4"]Wow, for a God who is supposed to be so into being feared, He sure is re-assuring[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]

 

[Amazing Grace]

Interesting!

Well soon we may really find out what it's all about from God Himself.

So many arguments, so many doctrines, so many takes on wether we should accent at the start of a Word or the End. What is right and what is wrong is all in the eye of the Believer or is it?

 

[Duckybill]

[font="Verdana][size="2"]
Luke 12:32
New International Version (NIV)

[sup]32[/sup] “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

[/size][/font][font="Verdana] [/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]Genesis 15:1
[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"][ The LORD’s Covenant With Abram ] After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward. ”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Genesis 26:24
That night the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Judges 6:23
But the LORD said to him, “Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Psalm 27:1
Of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation— whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life— of whom shall I be afraid?[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Isaiah 12:2
Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD himself, is my strength and my defense ; he has become my salvation.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Isaiah 43:5
Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Daniel 10:12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Matthew 10:31
So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Matthew 14:27
But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][color="#ff0000"]
Matthew 17:5-7
New International Version (NIV)

[sup]5[/sup] While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

[sup]6[/sup] When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. [sup]7[/sup] But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.”

[/color][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]Mark 5:36
Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 6:20
But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 12:15
“Do not be afraid, Daughter Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey’s colt.”[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][/font][size="5"][font="Verdana][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1:17&version=31"]Revelation 1:17[/url][/b][/font]
[font="Verdana]When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be [b]afraid[/b]. I am the First and the Last.[/font]
[/color][/size][font="Verdana] [/font]
[font="Verdana][size="4"]Wow, for a God who is supposed to be so into being feared, He sure is re-assuring[/size][/font]

And you still can't admit that Jesus said to fear God.

 

[Rach1370]

The big problem is that the majority of humans will find out too late what "fear God" really means.

Matthew 10:28 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Can I ask you a question Ducky? How do you, personally, manage to love that which you are also afraid of??

For me, this kind of implies that maybe you obey Him, follow Him, preach Him, out of a position of terror of what might happen if you don't. Can't you see that while Jesus used the word 'fear' He also clearly taught that love, of God and others is paramount. The things we do, the fruit we bear, the message we proclaim, it all comes from love, not fear.

Now, please don't misunderstand me, I do not believe that 'love covers all sins'. Love, as always, must be Godly, and God loves wildly, but He is also the righteous and wrathful judge. It is this authority we respect and 'fear'...but it is also these very things about Him that I love. Despite all the sin and madness in this world, despite my reservations about hell and justice, I am completely content and happy to leave in God's hands...He is perfect in all He does, His choices and actions best for all, and especially for His own glory.

I cannot truly fear God, in the meaning of terror. He is my father and He loves me enough to have sent Jesus. If I hadn't accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour then I would have a reason to fear, but the Bible teaches that as long as I love Jesus, as long as I follow Him, I am safe. As His children we see His might, and we respect it, but we do not have to fear it. You may feel differently, and I'm sorry you feel you have to be actually afraid of your father...but I simply cannot live in terror when such staggering love is within me...there is no room. And I do not doubt my salvation for one second...I have been assured by Jesus Himself through His word! Comforting indeed!

 

[Duckybill]

Can I ask you a question Ducky? How do you, personally, manage to love that which you are also afraid of??

It starts here:

Psalm 111:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding.

For me, this kind of implies that maybe you obey Him, follow Him, preach Him, out of a position of terror of what might happen if you don't. Can't you see that while Jesus used the word 'fear' He also clearly taught that love, of God and others is paramount. The things we do, the fruit we bear, the message we proclaim, it all comes from love, not fear.

See above.

Now, please don't misunderstand me, I do not believe that 'love covers all sins'. Love, as always, must be Godly, and God loves wildly, but He is also the righteous and wrathful judge. It is this authority we respect and 'fear'...but it is also these very things about Him that I love. Despite all the sin and madness in this world, despite my reservations about hell and justice, I am completely content and happy to leave in God's hands...He is perfect in all He does, His choices and actions best for all, and especially for His own glory.

See above.

I cannot truly fear God, in the meaning of terror. He is my father and He loves me enough to have sent Jesus. If I hadn't accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour then I would have a reason to fear, but the Bible teaches that as long as I love Jesus, as long as I follow Him, I am safe. As His children we see His might, and we respect it, but we do not have to fear it. You may feel differently, and I'm sorry you feel you have to be actually afraid of your father...but I simply cannot live in terror when such staggering love is within me...there is no room. And I do not doubt my salvation for one second...I have been assured by Jesus Himself through His word! Comforting indeed!

I'm sorry that you are rejecting one of the main Biblical doctrines. I must ask, do you believe in the Genesis Flood where Jesus drowned everyone on Earth but 8?

Those who don't fear God do not receive wisdom from Him. See above.

 

[Rach1370]

It starts here:

Psalm 111:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding.

See above.

See above.

As I explained in my earlier post, the Greek word for 'fear' can be translated as either 'terror' or 'respect and awe'. So therefore it comes down to what a person reads into that word, based on their understanding of what the rest of scripture supports. I understand you believe it to be fear, but many others believe it to be respect and awe. What it really comes down to is this: do you accuse those of us who see it as respect as being without salvation? If you are you are stepping beyond your authority. I claim Jesus as Lord and God, I love Him and follow Him and place all my faith in Him. Under these things, the bible labels me saved, and I can attest to this...it is only the Holy Spirit within me and my new heart that sees any good come from this wretched being. If you are not contesting my salvation, I have to wonder why you are attacking those who see differently to you. Jesus allows freedom in all secondary issues...you will note that none of us who feels differently are questioning your saved status.
You say that the above passage means that to really be in terror of God is the beginning of wisdom. I disagree...fear and terror never lead anywhere good. Jesus came to free us from bondage to sin, and I honestly believe that without sin no terror would be seen or felt. In the beginning when all was perfect Adam and Eve walked in the garden with God, conversing and sharing with Him. It was only after sin that they feared Him. Jesus frees us from that fear, under His blood we once again have relationship with God the Father. I believe the above verse means that with proper respect, awe and consideration of what and who God is...that is when we begin to have wisdom. Understanding what God did out of love for us is very sobering as well as heart lifting...it changes our perspectives for all time....the beginning of wisdom.

I'm sorry that you are rejecting one of the main Biblical doctrines. I must ask, do you believe in the Genesis Flood where Jesus drowned everyone on Earth but 8?

I believe the main doctrines, the primary ones that there can be no wavering from to be these:
- The Bible is the infallible, highest authority and God breathed,
- I believe that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God when He lived with us, that He died in our place, for our sins
- I believe that He was raised from the dead and that it is only through faith in Him that we gain forgiveness for our sins,
- I believe in the Trinity, God in three persons.

I do not know that the 'fear of God' is categorized with these essential doctrines, but even if it were, I still do not believe that a God who would die for bad people would also require me to follow Him in terror. I have no doubt that when I stand before Him I will tremble, but it will be from awe, from love, from overwhelming presence of power and authority, from my inadequacy, from His glory and from His perfect love.

Yes, I do believe in the flood. I also believe in hell and in the coming destruction of all in fire. It is true that God has and will kill many people, but I see this as a reason to fear sin, fear rebellion and evil, not God. God is righteous and good and He is judge. I do not see the story of the flood as God 'being a meanie' just to make people fear Him. He gave those people warning, He gave them 120 years to repent...they did not. God is just, therefore all His punishments are just. This would make me fear Him if I were against Him...I am not. He extended the gift of grace to save me from His wrath, I accepted it.

Those who don't fear God do not receive wisdom from Him. See above.

Not everyone was meant to be wise. I will never win any awards for being clever or wise...I'll never be one of those Christians whose wise words are echoed through history. And that's okay with me...God made me to be someone else. The only thing I want to receive from God is His love and grace...which I have. I need nothing more.

 

[Duckybill]

You don't fear the Jesus/God of the Bible who drowned everyone on Earth but 8? I do. He commanded it.

 

[Rach1370]

You don't fear the Jesus/God of the Bible who drowned everyone on Earth but 8? I do. He commanded it.

He also commands us to love Him with all our minds, hearts and strength. Fear and love just do not go hand in hand, they can't. Love and reverence, however... God describes himself as a mother, reaching down to gather His children to Him. He tells us that if He cares for the sparrows, how much more does He love us?

The only way I would fear God is if I thought His wrath and judgement were directed at me; that would mean doubting the saving grace Jesus died to give me. I don't. God/Jesus speaks of loving us and us loving Him way too often for me to be terrified of Him, it's that simple. I love Him and trust Him...even should He choose to strike me down, I will only love Him, not fear Him.

Look, I'm not going to get into this and be another person going on and on with you...there's no point...we won't agree on this. I hope one day you will feel the freedom Christ purchased for us and experience love without terror.

 

[Duckybill]

Fear and love just do not go hand in hand, they can't.

Then your Bible is trash.

Love and reverence, however... God describes himself as a mother, reaching down to gather His children to Him. He tells us that if He cares for the sparrows, how much more does He love us?

The only way I would fear God is if I thought His wrath and judgement were directed at me; that would mean doubting the saving grace Jesus died to give me. I don't. God/Jesus speaks of loving us and us loving Him way too often for me to be terrified of Him, it's that simple. I love Him and trust Him...even should He choose to strike me down, I will only love Him, not fear Him.

Look, I'm not going to get into this and be another person going on and on with you...there's no point...we won't agree on this. I hope one day you will feel the freedom Christ purchased for us and experience love without terror.

Do you want wisdom? Then heed God's Word:

Proverbs 1:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[tomwebster]

What does this have to do with the OP?

 

[Duckybill]

What does this have to do with the OP?

A lot. If we will all be saved no matter what we do then there's no reason to fear God.

 

[tomwebster]

A lot. If we will all be saved no matter what we do then there's no reason to fear God.

We're not, and I don't. I think you two have been arguing about this long enough don't you. Will either of you change your mind? No! So why don’t you just let it go unless you just want to argue like little kids.