What is “Mystery Babylon” and her connection to the Antichrist?

[Bobby Jo]

... The only Roman emperor represented was the idea of the 6th king with, "and one is", which was the ruler over the Romans empire in Apostle John's days.
...

History and Scripture disagree with you, thus Abbingdon's CORRECT assessment of WHAT ISN'T.

And you have no clue of WHAT IS, but that doesn't deter your spoutings.
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

Now if you could explain why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, and why Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems, -- maybe we could get somewhere ...

Bobby Jo

You'd have to understand that Rev.17:8 verse first.

But the difference with the seven crown example in Rev.12:3-4 is given in that very Scripture, with Satan as that red dragon drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him, which was the time of his original rebellion against God. The factor is the 'timing' when that beast system happened vs. the timing of the one to come at the end given in Rev.13.

 

[Davy]

History and Scripture disagree with you, thus Abbingdon's CORRECT assessment of WHAT ISN'T.

And you have no clue of WHAT IS, but that doesn't deter your spoutings.
Bobby Jo

Before you could say history and Scripture disagree with me you would first have to be able to understand that Rev.17:8 verse and who it is about. But of course, you do not know. So now you have resorted to hot air spurting.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the difference with the seven crown example in Rev.12:3-4 is given in that very Scripture, with Satan as that red dragon drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him ...

SEVEN Diadems versus TEN Diadems. -- Answer the question, without the distraction/diversion.


Some children ...
Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not a Jew, so what you 'tried to quote' Jesus about doesn't apply to me, for that was meant for Jerusalem and those. But what I point to in my response to you does... apply to you and for the end of this world, and not only about Jerusalem. So you might try better to stay on topic, which of course has been about the Luke 21 events.

Sorry Davy.....you've totally missed what I was trying to say.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Sorry Davy.....you've totally missed what I was trying to say.

Perhaps you were indistinct/cryptic/obtuse.

There's a LOT of obtuse.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

...

... and while you're being indistinct/cryptic/obtuse, -- we're (that is to say "I'm") still waiting for YOU to explain what @Davy dodged:

Why does Rev. 12 say SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems.​

You've already been asked, and apparently are like @Davy, -- a little girl who runs and hides when confronted.
Bobby Jo


To All,

It's unconscionable that people post their nonsense in the Eschatology section when they can't even resolve the most simple of concepts.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding should be able to identify EACH of the SEVEN, and EACH of the TEN -- BY NAME. But alas, ignorant people spout ignorant doctrines, as though they were knowledgeable. And WORSE, some might believe them.


Whew.
Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

... and while you're being indistinct/cryptic/obtuse, -- we're (that is to say "I'm") still waiting for YOU to explain what @Davy dodged:

Why does Rev. 12 say SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems.​

You've already been asked, and apparently are like @Davy, -- a little girl who runs and hides when confronted.
Bobby Jo


To All,

It's unconscionable that people post their nonsense in the Eschatology section when they can't even resolve the most simple of concepts.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding should be able to identify EACH of the SEVEN, and EACH of the TEN -- BY NAME. But alas, ignorant people spout ignorant doctrines, as though they were knowledgeable. And WORSE, some might believe them.


Whew.
Bobby Jo

You're not interested in answers or solutions BJ therefore there's no point engaging your little games.

 

[Enoch111]

No, there are no pointers to Rome in Rev.17. They all point to Jerusalem, just as Rev.11 tells us Jerusalem is the "great city".

You can choose to be wilfully blind, but that does not change facts. Jerusalem NEVER reigned over the kings of the earth, but Rome definitely did, and history proves it.

 

[Josho]

I do not believe Babylon is Rome or is linked to the CC.

But could the modern day mystery Babylon be Hollywood? Hmmmmmmm.

 

[quietthinker]

I do not believe Babylon is Rome or is linked to the CC.

But could the modern day mystery Babylon be Hollywood? Hmmmmmmm.

This is a longer presentation Josho but well worth taking the time to check out....See what you think?

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Certainly Rev. 17 is not fulfilled in the sequence of Roman emperors. Both Scripture and History disprove that nonsense:

The “Abbingdon Bible Commentary” offers a candid opinion regarding John’s purported present tense setting and the sequence of Roman Emperors:

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, he is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]

[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

However, you have no clue as to the "seven mountains" and thus have no clue as to the "seven kings" and the "eighth which was and is not". Therefore you cannot assess ANY historical time line veracity. Furthermore, you have no clue as to the Rev. 13 Beast, so again you cannot assess ANY historical time line veracity.

But other than not knowing what you're talking about, we're MORE than interested in whatever else you don't know.
Bobby Jo

I have to admit that the book of Revelation has me beaten. But could it all come down to who controls the money of all these nations?

 

[Rocky Wiley]

The Rev.17 eight kings are not about all Roman emperors. The only Roman emperor represented was the idea of the 6th king with, "and one is", which was the ruler over the Romans empire in Apostle John's days.

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

The Rev.17:11 verse gives us a clue of who all those 8 kings are about. Instead of listening to men's doctrines, you might instead listen to The Word of God, because the previous Rev.17:8 verse gave you info about the identity of that verse 11 beast king. And since he was also 'OF' the seven, that's a revealing Message too of the identities of the past kings, and even the false king loosed at the end of Christ's future Millennial reign of Rev.20.

I want to put the same question to you as I did to Bobby Jo.

I have to admit that the book of Revelation has me beaten. But could it all come down to who controls the money of all these nations?

 

[Bobby Jo]

You're not interested in answers or solutions BJ therefore there's no point engaging your little games.

YEAH, what bombast. -- You make accusations for WHY YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS and run away like a little girl.

So run, -- little sissy.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

I do not believe Babylon is Rome or is linked to the CC.

Obviously correct.

But could the modern day mystery Babylon be Hollywood? Hmmmmmmm.

Do you throw darts, or maybe shoot at the broadside of a barn? And is it YOUR barn you're aiming at, but hitting your NEIGHBOR'S barn?

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

I have to admit that the book of Revelation has me beaten. But could it all come down to who controls the money of all these nations?

I think I might have explained this to you previously, but didn't get anywhere, so here's another "round":

Dan. 2 says FIVE (2:45) World Empires for which Dan. 7 says the FIFTH is Divided into THREE Superpowers and the United Nations:

CHAPTER 2
1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
5. Clay, "Divided Kingdom"

CHAPTER 2 with 7
1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
-- Clay, "Divided Kingdom"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a TIGER), China
-- 8. "Dreadful BEAST", United Nations -- "EIGHTH that was and is not" because it has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.​

In Rev. 12 the U.N. isn't present yet, so the SEVEN Diadems (for SEVEN Heads) are over the SEVEN World Empire powers

In Rev. 13 the U.N. is the BEAST ("Eighth") and thus has TEN Diadems (for TEN Horns) over the TEN Nation Permanent Members of the Security Council:

CURRENT PERMANENT MEMBERSHIP
1. U.S.
2. U.K.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China

NOMINATED TO PERMANENT MEMBERSHIP*
6. Germany - Economic Power
7. Japan - Economic Power
8. Brazil - Representative for S. America
9. Nigeria - Representative for Africa
10. India - Representative for the Near East
* “The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, MI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46​

And of course the BEAST is described where the Lion is the MOUTH because the U.K./U.S. has proficiency in Science, Technology, Trade, and Finance. The Leopard is the BODY because China has the largest population. And the Bear is the FEET because Russia has the most land mass, -- 8M vs. 3M each for the U.S., Canada, and China.


It's so obvious a child could understand, but it's HIDDEN from those that profess expertise.
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

You can choose to be wilfully blind, but that does not change facts. Jerusalem NEVER reigned over the kings of the earth, but Rome definitely did, and history proves it.

Nor am I blind about the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today that have the materials ready to build another temple, and startup the old covenant sacrificial worship again fully with a Levitical priesthood. The Sanhedrin even formed up several years ago. It will happen just like God's Word says it will, and no man is going to prevent it, certainly not the foolish Pre-tribulationalists who like to make up their own way to Heaven.

So if you want to wind up with those upon whom Jesus will close the door when He comes on the last day of this world, that's your choice, oh you foolish virgin.

 

[Davy]

I want to put the same question to you as I did to Bobby Jo.

I have to admit that the book of Revelation has me beaten. But could it all come down to who controls the money of all these nations?

Not really sure what you're asking. You'll have to give me more detail.

Our Lord's Revelation serves as the end of The Bible, Genesis as the beginning. Simple statement, but in Genesis we are shown how the devil was already in his position as adversary against God. If you understand how God gave the Ezekiel 28 events as a parable about Satan, pointing to a time when God originally created him perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, that points to a time prior... to Genesis, a time prior to Satan being in the Genesis role of adversary. So when was that time when Satan first rebelled?

In Revelation 12:3-4 we are even shown about the time when Satan first rebelled, as that "red dragon" having drawn a third of the angels (stars) to earth. In that time he had a beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. The beast system in Rev.13:1 is to have ten crowns instead of seven, and we are to mark this difference.

So how many brethren are able to 'think' about that time before Satan rebelled, a time when Satan followed God, was at the stones of fire (God's Altar), and served as a covering cherub guarding God's throne? And since Satan drew those angels to earth in the early time, that shows the earth also had then already existed before he rebelled against God.

Without understand about that old world, a time when Satan was perfect in his ways serving God, and how this earth is actually very ancient, and how that old world was a type of angelic existence on earth, then many things in Christ's Revelation won't be understood. This present world time of flesh is temporary. Christ's Salvation does not involve a flesh type existence in the future, even as Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor.15 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Our future state with Christ will be in a "spiritual body", which also is the type body of the resurrection.

So which KIND of world is the more real? This flesh world, or the world of spirit which by God's Spirit through His Son this material world was created? It is the world of Spirit, which is what the world to come will be as the type.

God's Word reveals angels being able to live upon the earth in our time today, in this present world. Paul even said for us to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels unaware. Even our Lord Jesus before He was born in the flesh appeared to Abraham and ate earthly food (Genesis 18). Again, understanding the difference between this earthy dimension we live in and the heavenly dimension is important to understand much of God's Word, especially Christ's Book of Revelation.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Not really sure what you're asking. ...

@Rocky Wiley, looks to me like another dodge. -- I gave you a concise and comprehensive overview which included Scripture and History with respective citations; and @Davy gave you a song-and-dance.

Welcome to "christianity",
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

It is the last day of Adam's 6000 year punishment. Then immediately follows the last 1000 year period on earth. Humans alive and born in the last 1000 years will know and experience what would have been, if Satan had not sifted Adam's descendants like he was allowed to do to Job and his children. Job was a single human set as an example of what God allowed Satan to do with Adam and his family for 6000 years.

Christ's future thousand years reign that begins at His return will not... be a fleshy existence. On the day of Christ's coming all will be changed at the twinkling of an eye. The future state is with a "spiritual body", which is also the body of the resurrection which Apostle Paul taught. Only those with cave men secularist philosophy believe this flesh world is going to go on forever.