What is Christianity? What is the Gospel?

[Episkopos]

Int

I have always wondered what it meant by “many are called but few are chosen”. I wasn’t sure if it was talking about being chosen to go to heaven.

So how do I sacrifice my life for the Lord to become a saint?

Being a saint requires that you lay down your life the same way that Jesus did. We give our life over to the Lord in order to partake of His life. If we die with Him then we will also live with Him. If we hold onto our lives then we will lose them. But if we lose our lives for the sake of Christ then we will find them. So we are to seek first the kingdom of God in order to experience righteousness on that level. On the level of holiness.

When our sacrifice reaches the Lord, and is complete, being with the whole heart, then it is God who sends down His Holy Spirit. We see this with Abel (which means "emptiness"), the son of Adam, whose sacrifice was consummated. When we seek with all our hearts, making room in our hearts for Him, then God visits us. Then we experience a personal revival, a personal Pentecost.

But God will not receive our sacrifice unless He deems us to be ready. Many saints have spent a long time preparing for that surrendered life. God only gives grace to the humble.

But few will receive that full measure of grace. Most people will follow Christ at a certain distance. What is important is to not become puffed up in our outer religious man, thereby inviting condemnation. If we remain humble and teachable then we can expect a good outcome. God is love, but He is also fair and righteous.

 

[Enoch111]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

You have taken a Scripture completely out of context to make up your doctrine. Do you really believe that there was (or will be) any cleansing required of anything in Heaven, which is where God's throne is? Where purity and perfection reigns?

That Scripture you quoted applies to the desecration of the future temple at Jerusalem by the Antichrist and its subsequent cleansing.

 

[amadeus]

You guys are pretty smart. I’m a simple man. The way I read it is; if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the messiah sent by God the Father, Gods only begotten son and you believe that he was crucified, buried and resurrected by God the father you will be saved.

Yes, IF you believe! What does it mean to believe? Devils believed in God, but that did not and does not save them. IF I believe really then will I not strive to do all that God asks of or requires of me?

God loves us, but that is only the one side. God wants us to love Him in the same way. Is a marriage where only one of the two spouses loves the other a successful marriage?

IF and when we do love God as He loves us will we not again be striving to do all that we can to please Him?

IF we say that we believe and that we love God, but do not strive with all that we have to do what He wants us to do, what kind of belief is that? What kind of love is that? How is that then different or better than the belief of the devils?

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:19-20

 

[amadeus]

You have taken a Scripture completely out of context to make up your doctrine. Do you really believe that there was (or will be) any cleansing required of anything in Heaven, which is where God's throne is? Where purity and perfection reigns?

That Scripture you quoted applies to the desecration of the future temple at Jerusalem by the Antichrist and its subsequent cleansing.

Why did God have Noah build three different levels in the Ark?

 

[Brakelite]

You have taken a Scripture completely out of context to make up your doctrine. Do you really believe that there was (or will be) any cleansing required of anything in Heaven, which is where God's throne is? Where purity and perfection reigns?

That Scripture you quoted applies to the desecration of the future temple at Jerusalem by the Antichrist and its subsequent cleansing.

KJV Hebrews 8:1-5
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Here is revealed the sanctuary of the new covenant. The sanctuary of the first covenant was pitched by man, built by Moses; this is pitched by the Lord, not by man. In that sanctuary the earthly priests performed their service; in this, Christ, our great High Priest, ministers at God's right hand. One sanctuary was on earth, the other is in heaven. The feast of, the Day of Atonement, which was celebrated once a year at the end of the Jewish calendar, involved the cleansing of the record of sin within the sanctuary. That record was painted in the blood of the Lamb.
There are books in heaven, where the records of our lives are written. The Day of Atonement in the typical sanctuary will find is antitype in the cleansing on the record of the sins of God's people at the end of time, followed by the High Priest leaving the sanctuary to return to earth for His people. The earth will at that time be devastated by fire and destruction from the plagues and the resulting global catastrophic release of poisons and nuclear fall out and widespread destruction, then shall be the releasing of the scapegoat, Satan, who shall then pay for the evil he has caused, the killing and the strife he instigated through his temptations and deceptions, released into the wilderness of this barren devastated earth for the following 1000 years while the saints are engaged in heaven with the judging of angels and preparing for the descent of the new Jerusalem into the earth, the destruction of the wicked, and the creation of the new heaven and the new earth. It isn't about Israel. It's about the church. It's about Jesus. There aren't two gospels... One for Israel and one for the church. There aren't two brides. Israel, and the church. And there is no blasphemous so called "God's temple" to be rebuilt. There may be a temple rebuilt. There may even be sacrifices and priests going about pretending to be following God, and there may be Christians all over the world celebrating this and denying Christ in doing so. But this will never ever be the temple referred to in Thessalonians. That Temple Paul speaks of in which the man
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
can only be the church.

 

[Enoch111]

Why did God have Noah build three different levels in the Ark?

To organize his Ark properly. Noah was extremely well organized through God's help in order to spend an year in that Ark. How is this relevant to the false doctrine of "Investigate Judgment" taught by the SDA church?

 

[amadeus]

You have taken a Scripture completely out of context to make up your doctrine. Do you really believe that there was (or will be) any cleansing required of anything in Heaven, which is where God's throne is? Where purity and perfection reigns?

That Scripture you quoted applies to the desecration of the future temple at Jerusalem by the Antichrist and its subsequent cleansing.

Why did God have Noah build three different levels in the Ark?

To organize his Ark properly. Noah was extremely well organized through God's help in order to spend an year in that Ark. How is this relevant to the false doctrine of "Investigate Judgment" taught by the SDA church?

Why were unclean and clean animals saved? Why did God not saved only human beings?

I mentioned the ark built by Noah, because I see it as a type of the three heavens. Consider it in connection with the Tabernacle in the wilderness built under the leadership of Moses. Everyone was complete outside until they took their sacrifices in to the priests in the outer court. Daily the only priests went behind the first veil into the Holy Place. Once a year the High Priest alone went behind second veil into the Holiest of Holies. These were shadows perhaps of the Reality seen when at the death of Jesus when the veil was torn asunder. What happened then? What happens now?

I don't have a clue with regard to "Investigate Judgement". I do not remember ever hearing that phrase before so I can not make a connection. Communication is always a problem when people speak different languages. People of different denominations usually do... speak different languages I mean. Who is to be our Interpreter?

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

 

[Enoch111]

I don't have a clue with regard to "Investigate Judgement".

"Investigative Judgment" is a doctrine peculiar to the Seventh Day Adventists, and is connected with the theoretical cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. Here is what they say from their own lips:

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY?
In Heaven, a record is kept of every person’s life. These records are what will be studied during the judgment.
“For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil” (Ecclesiastes 12:14, NKJV).
These records chronicle everything we have ever done.
When we ask for forgiveness, Jesus “is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9, NKJV).
And though Jesus is delighted to forgive our sins, He also has the responsibility of getting rid of them.
To illustrate this, let’s again look back at the Day of Atonement rituals in the earthly Sanctuary. Remember, there were two goats involved in the earthly Day of Atonement ritual.
The first goat served the sacrificial death, as a substitute for the sinner, “for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life” (Leviticus 17:11, ESV). This represented Jesus, as He was innocent, and it is His blood that cleanses us.
The second goat, the scapegoat, bore the blame of the sins because it symbolized the ultimate author sin. The wickedness of all Israel’s sin was symbolically transferred to that goat and it was banished and set loose into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22) thus removing the sins from the Israelite camp, Similarly, eventually Satan will be banished during the Millennium.
Just like the yearly Day of Atonement was to cleanse the earthly Sanctuary, the Heavenly sanctuary also needs to be cleansed.

According to the Bible Jesus already paid the full price of all sins at Calvary. That's where He dealt with the sin issue. But according to SDA teaching His finished work was never finished.

And to compare the heavenly Sanctuary to the earthly sanctuary is absurd. The High Priest never sat down. But Christ our Great High Priest sat down at the right hand of the Father having finished His work of redemption. "IT IS FINISHED" was His cry.

 

[amadeus]

"Investigative Judgment"

Thank you for that. I read it with familiarity as I have read the OT accounts, but could not judge it one way or the other as it did not connect or me with anything I definitely already understood.

According to the Bible Jesus already paid the full price of all sins at Calvary. That's where He dealt with the sin issue. But according to SDA teaching His finished work was never finished.

Well I believe that Jesus personal work as a man on planet Earth was certainly finished. He overcame the beastly temptations in his own flesh and he lay down his own physical life. That opened up the Way to whosoever will to obtain the more abundant Life He brought. Not many , considering the number who have known about it, have taken hold of the promise and started to walk toward the Light they were then able to see. They now have a vision! Moving always from through "a glass darkly" toward "face to face".

And to compare the heavenly Sanctuary to the earthly sanctuary is absurd. The High Priest never sat down. But Christ our Great High Priest sat down at the right hand of the Father having finished His work of redemption. "IT IS FINISHED" was His cry.

What was finished? If the vessel of any individual was cleansed for the moment but then left empty, what would be the result?

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

 

[Curtis]

Why would you call Calvary "the first step toward atonement" when God calls Christ the PROPITIATION not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world? The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was the full and final satisfaction for the sins of the world. Therefore Paul said "We preach Christ and Him crucified".

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2434: ἱλασμός (hilasmos)

ἱλασμός, ἱλασμοῦ, ὁ (ἱλάσκομαι);
1. an appeasing, propitiating, Vulg.propitiatio (Plutarch, de sera num. vind. c. 17; plural joined with καθαρμοι, Plutarch, Sol. 12; with the genitive of the object τῶν θεῶν, the Orphica Arg. 39; Plutarch, Fab. 18; θεῶν μῆνιν ἱλασμοῦ καί χαριστηριων δεομένην, vit. Camill. 7 at the end; ποιεῖσθαι ἱλασμόν, of a priest offering an expiatory sacrifice, 2 Macc. 3:33).

2. in Alex. usage the means of appeasing, a propitiation: Philo, alleg. leg. 3: § 61; προσοίσουσιν ἱλασμόν, for חַטָּאת, Ezekiel 44:27; περί τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν, of Christ, 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10 (κριός τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Numbers 5:8; (cf. ἡμέρα τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Leviticus 25:9); also for סְלִיחָה, forgiveness, Psalm 129:4 (); Daniel 9:9, Theod.). (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.)

As long as it’s realized the He died for the whole world’s sins, but the whole world won’t be saved - because it takes both faith and repentance for His atonement to be applied to anyone.

 

[Curtis]

"Investigative Judgment" is a doctrine peculiar to the Seventh Day Adventists, and is connected with the theoretical cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. Here is what they say from their own lips:

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY?
In Heaven, a record is kept of every person’s life. These records are what will be studied during the judgment.
“For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil” (Ecclesiastes 12:14, NKJV).
These records chronicle everything we have ever done.
When we ask for forgiveness, Jesus “is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9, NKJV).
And though Jesus is delighted to forgive our sins, He also has the responsibility of getting rid of them.
To illustrate this, let’s again look back at the Day of Atonement rituals in the earthly Sanctuary. Remember, there were two goats involved in the earthly Day of Atonement ritual.
The first goat served the sacrificial death, as a substitute for the sinner, “for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life” (Leviticus 17:11, ESV). This represented Jesus, as He was innocent, and it is His blood that cleanses us.
The second goat, the scapegoat, bore the blame of the sins because it symbolized the ultimate author sin. The wickedness of all Israel’s sin was symbolically transferred to that goat and it was banished and set loose into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22) thus removing the sins from the Israelite camp, Similarly, eventually Satan will be banished during the Millennium.
Just like the yearly Day of Atonement was to cleanse the earthly Sanctuary, the Heavenly sanctuary also needs to be cleansed.

According to the Bible Jesus already paid the full price of all sins at Calvary. That's where He dealt with the sin issue. But according to SDA teaching His finished work was never finished.

And to compare the heavenly Sanctuary to the earthly sanctuary is absurd. The High Priest never sat down. But Christ our Great High Priest sat down at the right hand of the Father having finished His work of redemption. "IT IS FINISHED" was His cry.

This is a true fact: there’s been times I was so upset that I had committed a sin that I brought it up again in prayer after I had already repented of it, and God replied, I have no record of any sins.

And to those who’ve been taught that repentance is unneeded after salvation- 1 John 1:9 states that if we, (as Christians, in the context) confess our sins they are forgiven - and Jesus told 4 out of 7 churches that the brethren needed to repent of what He rebuked them for.

 

[Enoch111]

As long as it’s realized the He died for the whole world’s sins, but the whole world won’t be saved - because it takes both faith and repentance for His atonement to be applied to anyone.

Correct. Those are the two conditions for salvation. Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Being a saint requires that you lay down your life the same way that Jesus did. We give our life over to the Lord in order to partake of His life. If we die with Him then we will also live with Him. If we hold onto our lives then we will lose them. But if we lose our lives for the sake of Christ then we will find them. So we are to seek first the kingdom of God in order to experience righteousness on that level. On the level of holiness.

When our sacrifice reaches the Lord, and is complete, being with the whole heart, then it is God who sends down His Holy Spirit. We see this with Abel (which means "emptiness"), the son of Adam, whose sacrifice was consummated. When we seek with all our hearts, making room in our hearts for Him, then God visits us. Then we experience a personal revival, a personal Pentecost.

But God will not receive our sacrifice unless He deems us to be ready. Many saints have spent a long time preparing for that surrendered life. God only gives grace to the humble.

But few will receive that full measure of grace. Most people will follow Christ at a certain distance. What is important is to not become puffed up in our outer religious man, thereby inviting condemnation. If we remain humble and teachable then we can expect a good outcome. God is love, but He is also fair and righteous.

What utter, unbiblical Hogwash...I would not even know where to begin....and some people “ liked” it.....scary...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Being a saint requires that you lay down your life the same way that Jesus did.



Do you Believe Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him personally by Jesus) Found In 1Cor15:1-4 ? If so, you are a “ Saint”.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When our sacrifice reaches the Lord, and is complete, being with the whole heart, then it is God who sends down His Holy Spirit.


God doesn’t give two hoots in Hell about your “ Sacrifice” .....He is much more Impressed with the Sacrifice of His Son.....

You make it sound like you receive the Holy Spirit as a Trade for your personal “ sacrifice” ....The Holy Spirit was in you when you first BELIEVED.....It was a GIFT, remember? Given to those that DO NOT WORK for it! Not with your puny “ Sacrifice Reaching the Lord” or anything else you might drum up..

This sort of personal made- up Doctrine won’t cut it here in these Forums.....Provide Scripture to back up your “ ear tickling” Pablum or abandon it.....I can back up my claims easily with Chapter and Verse....lets see yours....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What is a Christian, the OP asks......a Christian is one that has Christ’s Spirit in them.....Christ is formed in your heart by Faith......How does one accomplish this? One must hear the Gospel and one must have their heart opened by God ( check out the story of “ Lydia, the Seller Of Purple” Found In Acts 16 )......to Believe and REST in that Gospel .....a Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing .....If you are not a Christian, Turn to God as a Lost Sinner and put your Complete Trust in Jesus to Save you....

There is a “ Fast Track” to all of this, if the Holy Spirit has visited you and convicted you of your Sin and your Hell- Bound destination......just do like the Wicked Tax Collector did —- Jesus said it got this man Saved.He had come to an end of himself and all he did was Turn to God ( this “ Turning” is the type of Biblical Repentance needed for Salvation ) , pleading, “ Lord, have Mercy on me, a Sinner” ( Luke 18) ......God made a Promise for all of Mankind.....”Anybody that asks for Mercy shall receive it”......The KEY to Christianity is seeing the NEED for this Mercy.....I hope you see it.....you ain’t gonna get Saved without it....God Bless......

 

[amadeus]

When our sacrifice reaches the Lord, and is complete, being with the whole heart, then it is God who sends down His Holy Spirit.


God doesn’t give two hoots in Hell about your “ Sacrifice” .....He is much more Impressed with the Sacrifice of His Son.....

You make it sound like you receive the Holy Spirit as a Trade for your personal “ sacrifice” ....The Holy Spirit was in you when you first BELIEVED.....It was a GIFT, remember? Given to those that DO NOT WORK for it! Not with your puny “ Sacrifice Reaching the Lord” or anything else you might drum up..

This sort of personal made- up Doctrine won’t cut it here in these Forums.....Provide Scripture to back up your “ ear tickling” Pablum or abandon it.....I can back up my claims easily with Chapter and Verse....lets see yours....

I presume your post is directed @Episkopos If you do not tag him he very likely will never see and read much less respond to your words.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I presume your post is directed @Episkopos If you do not tag him he very likely will never see and read much less respond to your words.

Thanks....I am a computer Dotard.....I don’t know how to “ tag” anybody.....

 

[Instant]

To become a Christian, one must believe in Jesus Christ. They must accept Jesus Christ into their life to be their Lord and Savior. They must repent of their sins and follow Jesus Christ and the teachings in the New Testament. True Christians are doers of the Word and not hearers only. True Christians build their house upon the rock, not on the sand, which means they obey the Lord and what He says. If it was only about faith plus nothing, as some teach, Jesus would not tell people to count the cost before choosing to be a Christian, as there would be no cost. As I said in another thread, it is about trusting Jesus and obeying Him. If we happen to mess up, we need to confess the sin to God when it comes to our attention.

 

[amadeus]

Thanks....I am a computer Dotard.....I don’t know how to “ tag” anybody.....

If you simply hit 'quote' and 'reply' to any post [lower right hand corner of the post] you wish to comment on... that will tags the writer of that post.

To tag a person without quoting his post, simply type the person's screen name like this, @Blood Bought 1953 as part of your post to him. That also tags him.

The tags show up for you person in the upper right hand corner of a forum page above the word "alerts". A little red box appears there with a white number showing the number of alerts you have.

If you click on the word "alert" each alerted post will be displayed below the word "alert". Click on any alert that interests you and you will be taken to that post.

Once you have clicked on one alert post, the red box will be gone, but you can still access other alerted posts by clicking on the word "alerts".

If you double click on the word "alert" all of your alerts will be displayed even though there was no red box showing.