What Is Marriage?

[Ronald Nolette]

I ask the question sarcastically at post #234. I know that simply having sex with a person doesn't make them married. It's just that some believe that the act of sex is what makes you married and I disagree.

I am not surprised. But it is the act of marriage (sexual intercourse) that the bible says makes a man and woman one flesh and that is what marriage is! YOu can disagree, but tehn yo do not have a biblical definition of marriage but a personal opinion of what marriage is.

 

[kcnalp]

How about stop blaming all JW for my mistakes.

I didn't. lol

Yes I've gone off topic but I'm trying to change. How about you do the same.

You're not trying very hard. You're still OT.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Again all you have to do is come up with a requirement for a wedding and you cannot not do that because it is not there.
With your line of thinking, no one in the Bible was married.

No that's not true, you just don't agree with what the scriptures say. As I said Eve was called Adam wife before they had sex. Also the hebrew women were considered the hebrew man wife after the bride price was paid even though there had been no sex between them yet.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I am not surprised. But it is the act of marriage (sexual intercourse) that the bible says makes a man and woman one flesh and that is what marriage is! YOu can disagree, but tehn yo do not have a biblical definition of marriage but a personal opinion of what marriage is.

The scriptures also say that that Eve was called Adams wife before they had sex.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I didn't. lol

You're not trying very hard. You're still OT.

Obviously you're not.

 

[Grailhunter]

No that's not true, you just don't agree with what the scriptures say. As I said Eve was called Adam wife before they had sex. Also the hebrew women were considered the hebrew man wife after the bride price was paid even though there had been no sex between them yet.

Well when you find a marriage outside of Eden that God appeared at and said, I now pronounce you man and wife...until then you are promoting a lie.

As far as the bride price...find it...a couple called man and wife after the bride price paid.

The Bible is not supporting your beliefs well.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well when you find a marriage outside of Eden that God appeared at and said, I now pronounce you man and wife...until then you are promoting a lie.

As far as the bride price...find it...a couple called man and wife after the bride price paid.

The Bible is not supporting your beliefs well.

In Israel a man who was engaged or betrothed was also spoken of as “husband” and the girl as “wife"
Deut. 22:23, 24 If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man happens to meet her in the city and lies down with her, you should bring them both out to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not scream in the city and the man because he humiliated the "wife" of his fellow man. So you must remove what is evil from your midst.
This virgin is the wife of another hebrew man even though they had not had sex yet.

Joseph and his wife Mary who was the mother of Jesus were husband and wife even though Joseph didn't have sex with Mary until sometime after Jesus was born.
Matthew 1:18,20- But this is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. 20-But after he had thought these things over, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a dream, saying: “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take your wife Mary home, for what has been conceived in her is by holy spirit.
You see even the Angel of God called Mary, Josephs wife even though they hadn't had sex yet.

...

 

[Grailhunter]

In Israel a man who was engaged or betrothed was also spoken of as “husband” and the girl as “wife"
Deut. 22:23, 24 If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man happens to meet her in the city and lies down with her, you should bring them both out to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not scream in the city and the man because he humiliated the "wife" of his fellow man. So you must remove what is evil from your midst.
This virgin is the wife of another hebrew man even though they had not had sex yet.

Joseph and his wife Mary who was the mother of Jesus were husband and wife even though Joseph didn't have sex with Mary until sometime after Jesus was born.
Matthew 1:18,20- But this is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. 20-But after he had thought these things over, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a dream, saying: “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take your wife Mary home, for what has been conceived in her is by holy spirit.
You see even the Angel of God called Mary, Josephs wife even though they hadn't had sex yet.

...

You keep doing this to yourself...where is the wedding?
They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.

And Matthew 1:18-20 reads
18 Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. 19 And her husband Joseph, since he was a righteous man and did not want to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20 But when he had thought this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try...

You have the entire Old Testament to find a requirement for a wedding. 613 Mosaic Laws and not one of them require a wedding. How many men "taking" a wife... "knowing" women...and a host of begots...but no weddings. The Jewish kings had how many wives and still even Kings did not have weddings.

How could the Old Testament require a wedding if the words wed and wedding are not in their language?

You have the whole New Testament and no requirement for a wedding. Neither Christ or the Apostles said anything about requiring a wedding. When you read the word wedding in the parables about Christ and the Church, know that the Greek word for wedding and marriage are the same word.

According to you no one was married in the Old or New Testament because no one had a wedding and none were required.

History backs this up because the first recorded Christian wedding was around 900 years after Christ's ministry.

Now you should have brought up the Wedding in Cana....
But we have no idea who it was for or what religion they were. In this time period all weddings were Pagan. And when Christians do eventually have weddings, they are modeled after Roman Weddings. Then again we are back to which way you translate the Greek word that means either wedding or marriage.

What we have today is still modeled after Roman weddings. Do you think someone said in Christ's time...Lets have a wedding like the Romans. The whole thing would be offensive to the Jews.

Don't get me wrong...I am all for weddings....the bigger the better and I think it is important.
And speculatively....after the gentiles were converting to Christianity....I am going to speculate that some had weddings...because that was their custom and traditions. But still no biblical occurrence and no religious requirement.

A common Christian statement...It is a sin to have sex before you are wed or married. The problem is....that statement does not occur in the Bible because that is how a couple consummates a marriage. People should not have sex unless they are in love. But I am still not on board with condemning lovers for making love. And when they do, they are married, and they should plan a wedding.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The scriptures also say that that Eve was called Adams wife before they had sex.

Once again you are making an assumption they had no sex before the fall! that is dangerous to do when the Scriptures do not say yes or no on th esubject. For all we know they could have been like rabbits before the fall, and God just shut Eves womb because they would fall! That is just as valid a guess as yours and has the same amount of solid evidence as your guess.....0.

 

[Tone]

Marriage is when a woman says to me, "I want to enjoy you for the rest of my life!"!!!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Grailhunter say:
You keep doing this to yourself...where is the wedding?
They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.[/Quote\]
So up above in this text that you texted you're saying that Joseph and Mary were not married, therefore not husband and wife?
If this is true then aren't you saying the scriptures are lying when at Matthew 1:20 it says: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee "Mary thy wife": for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost?
So since the Angel of God says to Joseph that Mary is his wife, are you saying the scriptures are lying. The word wife is clear here. In other Bibles such as: The Bible in living English; the american standard Bible; KJV, etc. say:"do not be afraid to take your wife Mary."
Also as I said, in the old testament there was a process of how they got engaged such as when a hebrew man and woman were in agreement to be husband and wife the father of the hebrew man would go to the hebrew woman father and ask permission that his son take his daughter for his wife and if the woman's father gives that permission then the hebrew mans father pays the agreed on bride price, at that moment they are engaged. In the ancient hebrew culture a man and woman who were engaged were considered husband and wife even though they hadn't had sex yet.

 

[kcnalp]

Grailhunter say:
You keep doing this to yourself...where is the wedding?
They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.[/Quote\]
So up above in this text that you texted you're saying that Joseph and Mary were not married, therefore not husband and wife?
If this is true then aren't you saying the scriptures are lying when at Matthew 1:20 it says: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee "Mary thy wife": for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost?
So since the Angel of God says to Joseph that Mary is his wife, are you saying the scriptures are lying. The word wife is clear here. In other Bibles such as: The Bible in living English; the american standard Bible; KJV, etc. say:"do not be afraid to take your wife Mary."
Also as I said, in the old testament there was a process of how they got engaged such as when a hebrew man and woman were in agreement to be husband and wife the father of the hebrew man would go to the hebrew woman father and ask permission that his son take his daughter for his wife and if the woman's father gives that permission then the hebrew mans father pays the agreed on bride price, at that moment they are engaged. In the ancient hebrew culture a man and woman who were engaged were considered husband and wife even though they hadn't had sex yet.

I wonder if Kingdom Hall TOTALLY twists marriage like they do the Bible.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Once again you are making an assumption they had no sex before the fall! that is dangerous to do when the Scriptures do not say yes or no on th esubject. For all we know they could have been like rabbits before the fall, and God just shut Eves womb because they would fall! That is just as valid a guess as yours and has the same amount of solid evidence as your guess.....0.

You talk about assumptions as though you're not making assumptions. Show me where it's written where they did have sex while they were in the Garden of Eden. You won't find anywhere were it's written that Adam and Eve had sex while they were in the Garden of Eden. When they were expelled from Eden yes we have it written down they had sex. So when I say we have no evidence that they had sex when they were in the garden of Eden, that's because we have nothing written in the scriptures that they did. Anyone saying they did are the ones making assumptions. I'm simply going by what's written in the scriptures.

 

[kcnalp]

You talk about assumptions as though you're not making assumptions. Show me where it's written where they did have sex while they were in the Garden of Eden. You won't find anywhere were it's written that Adam and Eve had sex while they were in the Garden of Eden. When they were expelled from Eden yes we have it written down they had sex. So when I say we have no evidence that they had sex when they were in the garden of Eden, that's because we have nothing written in the scriptures that they did. Anyone saying they did are the ones making assumptions. I'm simply going by what's written in the scriptures.

Kingdom Hall has washed your brain.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter say:
You keep doing this to yourself...where is the wedding?
They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.[/Quote\]
So up above in this text that you texted you're saying that Joseph and Mary were not married, therefore not husband and wife?
If this is true then aren't you saying the scriptures are lying when at Matthew 1:20 it says: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee "Mary thy wife": for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost?
So since the Angel of God says to Joseph that Mary is his wife, are you saying the scriptures are lying. The word wife is clear here. In other Bibles such as: The Bible in living English; the american standard Bible; KJV, etc. say:"do not be afraid to take your wife Mary."
Also as I said, in the old testament there was a process of how they got engaged such as when a hebrew man and woman were in agreement to be husband and wife the father of the hebrew man would go to the hebrew woman father and ask permission that his son take his daughter for his wife and if the woman's father gives that permission then the hebrew mans father pays the agreed on bride price, at that moment they are engaged. In the ancient hebrew culture a man and woman who were engaged were considered husband and wife even though they hadn't had sex yet.

Read it again slowly.
Now there seems to be a small contradiction between Luke and Matthew but I do not think that Joseph would have joined with Miriam while she was pregnant with Yeshua, nor do we see a wedding occurring... So still engaged in Jerusalem and still engaged when she delivered Yeshua.

They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.

And Matthew 1:18-20 reads
18 Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. 19 And her husband Joseph, since he was a righteous man and did not want to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20 But when he had thought this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try...

You have the entire Old Testament to find a requirement for a wedding. 613 Mosaic Laws and not one of them require a wedding. How many men "taking" a wife... "knowing" women...and a host of begots...but no weddings. The Jewish kings had how many wives and still even Kings did not have weddings.

How could the Old Testament require a wedding if the words wed and wedding are not in their language?

You have the whole New Testament and no requirement for a wedding. Neither Christ or the Apostles said anything about requiring a wedding. When you read the word wedding in the parables about Christ and the Church, know that the Greek word for wedding and marriage are the same word.

According to you no one was married in the Old or New Testament because no one had a wedding and none were required.

History backs this up because the first recorded Christian wedding was around 900 years after Christ's ministry.

Now you should have brought up the Wedding in Cana....
But we have no idea who it was for or what religion they were. In this time period all weddings were Pagan. And when Christians do eventually have weddings, they are modeled after Roman Weddings. Then again we are back to which way you translate the Greek word that means either wedding or marriage.

What we have today is still modeled after Roman weddings. Do you think someone said in Christ's time...Lets have a wedding like the Romans. The whole thing would be offensive to the Jews.

Don't get me wrong...I am all for weddings....the bigger the better and I think it is important.
And speculatively....after the gentiles were converting to Christianity....I am going to speculate that some had weddings...because that was their custom and traditions. But still no biblical occurrence and no religious requirement.

A common Christian statement...It is a sin to have sex before you are wed or married. The problem is....that statement does not occur in the Bible because that is how a couple consummates a marriage. People should not have sex unless they are in love. But I am still not on board with condemning lovers for making love. And when they do, they are married, and they should plan a wedding.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I wonder if Kingdom Hall TOTALLY twists marriage like they do the Bible.

You just don't want to believe the truth. That's nobodies fault but yours. I think you should stop blaming other people for that.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Kingdom Hall has washed your brain.

Again, I simply stated the truth. There's nothing written in the scriptures that Adam and Eve had sex while in the Garden of Eden. This statement I just said is true. If there is anywhere written in the scriptures that Adam and Eve had sex while in the garden of Eden, show me.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Read it again slowly.
Now there seems to be a small contradiction between Luke and Matthew but I do not think that Joseph would have joined with Miriam while she was pregnant with Yeshua, nor do we see a wedding occurring... So still engaged in Jerusalem and still engaged when she delivered Yeshua.

They are in Jerusalem just before the birth of Christ Luke 1:5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Not married.

And Matthew 1:18-20 reads
18 Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. 19 And her husband Joseph, since he was a righteous man and did not want to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20 But when he had thought this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try...

You have the entire Old Testament to find a requirement for a wedding. 613 Mosaic Laws and not one of them require a wedding. How many men "taking" a wife... "knowing" women...and a host of begots...but no weddings. The Jewish kings had how many wives and still even Kings did not have weddings.

How could the Old Testament require a wedding if the words wed and wedding are not in their language?

You have the whole New Testament and no requirement for a wedding. Neither Christ or the Apostles said anything about requiring a wedding. When you read the word wedding in the parables about Christ and the Church, know that the Greek word for wedding and marriage are the same word.

According to you no one was married in the Old or New Testament because no one had a wedding and none were required.

History backs this up because the first recorded Christian wedding was around 900 years after Christ's ministry.

Now you should have brought up the Wedding in Cana....
But we have no idea who it was for or what religion they were. In this time period all weddings were Pagan. And when Christians do eventually have weddings, they are modeled after Roman Weddings. Then again we are back to which way you translate the Greek word that means either wedding or marriage.

What we have today is still modeled after Roman weddings. Do you think someone said in Christ's time...Lets have a wedding like the Romans. The whole thing would be offensive to the Jews.

Don't get me wrong...I am all for weddings....the bigger the better and I think it is important.
And speculatively....after the gentiles were converting to Christianity....I am going to speculate that some had weddings...because that was their custom and traditions. But still no biblical occurrence and no religious requirement.

A common Christian statement...It is a sin to have sex before you are wed or married. The problem is....that statement does not occur in the Bible because that is how a couple consummates a marriage. People should not have sex unless they are in love. But I am still not on board with condemning lovers for making love. And when they do, they are married, and they should plan a wedding.

There's no contradiction between Luke and Matthew.

 

[kcnalp]

Again, I simply stated the truth. There's nothing written in the scriptures that Adam and Eve had sex while in the Garden of Eden. This statement I just said is true. If there is anywhere written in the scriptures that Adam and Eve had sex while in the garden of Eden, show me.

Kingdom Hall has washed your brain.

 

[Grailhunter]

There's no contradiction between Luke and Matthew.

LOL Then....Miriam was still engaged when they were in Jerusalem.