What is necessary to be a Christian?

[Riven]

You don't have to be Christian to be saved.

Am I the only one who gets the sense that the rules are constantly in flux?

 

[CrowCross]

Now Paul also wrote that Jesus will not return for the Church until after there has been a falling away from the truth (apostasy) - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 UASV:

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
A large part of that apostasy is the teaching of the Trinity, teaching a new Gospel different from what the Apostles taught. Paul warned, Galatians 1:6-9 WEB:

Really?

The term Apostasy has been somewhat skewed over the years. The word means "stand away". In fact the word "departure" has been used in earlier translations. It has more of an understanding of being removed.

To teach that you know the departure mentioned in 2 Thes 2:3 means ....some sort of departure from the faith...is very problematic because the verse doesn't even mention the words that suggest a departure from the faith...or to be specific anything concerning the Trinity.

You simply stuck it in that verse to help prop up your false theology.

 

[GodsGrace]

Am I the only one who gets the sense that the rules are constantly in flux?

Riven
They shouldn't be in flux.
They've been the same for 2 thousand years.

THIS is precisely why they cannot be changed.
It would mean that there are no rules!

What did you think of my list of tenets?
It's not MY list, it's what the Christian religion considers necessary for the faith.

 

[Matthias]

Would you agree that obedience to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles is necessary to be a Christian?

“A person’s claim to be a Christian is meaningless if he is not obedient.” - John MacArthur

Why not focus on that @keithr?

 

[CrowCross]

It's a similar question, but I started this thread to discuss whether or not a person must believe in the Trinity in order to be a Christian. As I wrote in the opening post:

I agree. One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved....in fact I bet a number high in the 90% range of new christians don't even know what the trinity even is. I would also say many get saved without realizing Jesus is God come in the flesh.
For a new christian their theological knowledge is limited if even existent at all. They may have heard the account of Adam and Eve..or Noah, perhaps the Red Sea splitting....but often not much more.

But, as a baby christian grows...matures... the concept and understanding of the trinitarian Godhead should be readily accepted as that truth is presented all through out scripture. More so in the new Testament where we see the Father mentioned as God along with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.....as one connects the dots....looking at what has been said about them, things they each do, their names, characteristics, equality and so on the trinity of the God head is revealed.
Do we as Christians understand the trinity completely? That answer is no. But, we can understand enough of it to see that it is real.

 

[Matthias]

Am I the only one who gets the sense that the rules are constantly in flux?

 

[Riven]

Riven
They shouldn't be in flux.
They've been the same for 2 thousand years.

THIS is precisely why they cannot be changed.
It would mean that there are no rules!

What did you think of my list of tenets?
It's not MY list, it's what the Christian religion considers necessary for the faith.

I think they're logical.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think they're logical.

I'd say so.
The Christian RELIGION is very logical.

(I differentiate between our religion
and our faith/relationship with God.)

 

[Riven]

I'd say so.
The Christian RELIGION is very logical.

Talking animals not withstanding.

 

[GodsGrace]

Talking animals not withstanding.

You know Riven...we are not required to accept the OT as literal in every sense.
The walls of Jericho came tumbling down...but did it happen all at once?
Sodom and Gemorrah were destroyed,,,but did it happen exactly like that?
This does not mean the OT is not true...
It has poetry...
it has people retelling stories that they heard.
I like to use the NT for any teaching...we can be sure that the NT is history...
although the OT is history too.
The other day I placed some cream cheese on the counter top, covered, with a knife across it.
I heard a noise after a few minutes and I found the cheese and knife on the kitchen floor.
That could easily have turned into a ghost story.
Seems the knife might have been heavy on one side and it eventually pulled everything down.
Then again maybe it was a ghost.
Then again,,,maybe the donkey did talk.
God could do what He wants to do.
But I still like to stick to the NT.

 

[Riven]

You know Riven...we are not required to accept the OT as literal in every sense.
The walls of Jericho came tumbling down...but did it happen all at once?
Sodom and Gemorrah were destroyed,,,but did it happen exactly like that?
This does not mean the OT is not true...
It has poetry...
it has people retelling stories that they heard.
I like to use the NT for any teaching...we can be sure that the NT is history...
although the OT is history too.
The other day I placed some cream cheese on the counter top, covered, with a knife across it.
I heard a noise after a few minutes and I found the cheese and knife on the kitchen floor.
That could easily have turned into a ghost story.
Seems the knife might have been heavy on one side and it eventually pulled everything down.
Then again maybe it was a ghost.
Then again,,,maybe the donkey did talk.
God could do what He wants to do.
But I still like to stick to the NT.

Oh, I know. But if you don't take all of it literally, then are there stories in the NT that we shouldn't take literally?

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh, I know. But if you don't take all of it literally, then are there stories in the NT that we shouldn't take literally?

No sir.
The New Testament is pure history...
unless, of course, Jesus is using an analogy or parable.
It's easy to spot the parts of the NT that are not literal...
however they still have a spiritual reality to them that we need to pay attention to.

 

[NayborBear]

I do believe John 3:16 sums it up pretty well what one NEEDS to be saved!
"Christianity/churchianity" on the other hand?
Heads towards, when not IN that SAME "Rabbit Hole" that brought about the "Jewish Talmud!"
John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jez a simple note in passing here:
Didn't Jesus of Nazareth say to ASK the Father IN HIS (Jesus of Nazareth's) NAME?
Don't believe I've seen ANYWHERE in the Bible this Jesus of Nazareth said to "PRAY TO ME!"
OH!
I take that back!
There IS a place:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

THIS is the "Rabbit Hole" Churchianity falls into when and after the "author of confusion" has his way with them in THIS verse!:
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

DONCHA/CANCHA
SEE THIS?

It's SO prevalent these days!
Even in their (so called) worship music!
-smh

 

[amigo de christo]

Talking animals not withstanding.

many are the voices of talking asses in this late and last hour . Only i would not heed the words
coming out of their mouths . We gots us a donkeyville gone wrong my friend .
And it is not wise to heed such . Now to the trenches one and all . bible time in the house .

 

[PeterAndroz]

I do believe John 3:16 sums it up pretty well what one NEEDS to be saved!
"Christianity/churchianity" on the other hand?
Heads towards, when not IN that SAME "Rabbit Hole" that brought about the "Jewish Talmud!"
John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jez a simple note in passing here:
Didn't Jesus of Nazareth say to ASK the Father IN HIS (Jesus of Nazareth's) NAME?
Don't believe I've seen ANYWHERE in the Bible this Jesus of Nazareth said to "PRAY TO ME!"
OH!
I take that back!
There IS a place:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

THIS is the "Rabbit Hole" Churchianity falls into when and after the "author of confusion" has his way with them in THIS verse!:
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

DONCHA/CANCHA
SEE THIS?

It's SO prevalent these days!
Even in their (so called) worship music!
-smh

Who is your Apostle according to Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9 ?
""DONCHA/CANCHA
SEE THIS?""

 

[keithr]

Did the Apostles believe that Jesus is God?

No, they did not believe that Jesus was God. Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 UASV:

(5) For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,​

(6) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

and he repeatedly wrote, e.g. Philippians 1:2 WEB:

(2) Grace to you, and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

The Apostles believed Jesus, who said in prayer to God (his and our heavenly Father), John 17:3 UASV:

(3) This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

No intention to turn this into a trinity thread...
just to support my statement that the Apostles believed Jesus is God and this is what they taught.

But they didn't teach that! For example, this is the Gospel that Paul taught - 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 UASV:

(1) Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand,​

(2) by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message, I proclaimed to you, unless you believed in vain.​

(3) For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,​

(4) and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,​

(5) and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.​

(6) Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom remain until now, though some have fallen asleep;​

(7) then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles;​

(8) and last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also.​

And he also wrote, Galatians 1:6-12 UASV:

(6) I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel;​

(7) not that there is another, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.​

(8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed!​

(9) As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone is proclaiming a gospel to you contrary to what you have received, let him be accursed!​

(10) For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a slave of Christ.​

(11) For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not according to man.​

(12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.​

The JW are good people and they're probably saved.
But they are NOT Christian.
Maybe you're a JW?

No I am not a JW. You may think they're not Christian, but Google AI thinks that they are! It says:

Historians and sociologists often describe them as a non-trinitarian, restorationist Christian movement. This means they emerged from the 19th-century Adventist movement and try to restore what they believe original Christianity lost, while differing heavily from historic orthodox theology.​

The main difference is that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in the man made Trinity doctrine, and Trinity idol worshippers don't like that so they turn nasty and try to smear them as non-Christians!

Here are the tenets of the Christian Religion.
They were decided 2 thousand years ago.

The Trinity and and "hypostatic union" nonsense were not invented 2 thousand years ago - they weren't finalised until 500 - 700 years later.

We don't have the freedom to change the Christian Religion because some do not agree with them.

And yet the Christian 'beliefs' were changed hundreds of years later to add the Trinity doctrine!

 

[Marvelloustime]

many are the voices of talking asses in this late and last hour . Only i would not heed the words
coming out of their mouths . We gots us a donkeyville gone wrong my friend .
And it is not wise to heed such . Now to the trenches one and all . bible time in the house .

@amigo de christo

 

[CrowCross]

Then again,,,maybe the donkey did talk.

Trust the bible.

 

[NayborBear]

Am I the only one who gets the sense that the rules are constantly in flux?

Mans "rules?" Yep!
Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

And this verse right here?
Primarily is the reason WHY!
Because there IS a difference!

And?

 

[Grailhunter]

I've been a Christian for well over thirty years, and I am the treasurer and a trustee of the Pentecostal Christian church that I've been attending for about 32 years, but I've recently been banned from taking part in discussions in all the 'Christians Only' forums, because the CyB Team think that my "theological position" is "contrary to the historic Christian understanding of the person and nature of Jesus Christ as revealed in scripture". So my understanding of Scripture is not the same as theirs, and because discussion participants can't defend from Scripture their belief in the Trinity doctrine, they resort to requesting that the people with a different understanding of Scripture are banned from posting. This doesn't seem to obeying Paul's direction in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 WEB:

(24) The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient,​

(25) in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth,​

So because my "doctrinal position falls outside the boundaries of the forum’s Christian Statement of Faith", my account has been moved to the "Other Faiths" membership group. I was informed by a private discussion, to which I replied, but for some reason my reply was deleted from the private discussion some days later. Hmm.

I don't understand, or approve of, banning someone from discussions just because their "beliefs are incompatible with the biblical doctrine upheld by this forum". Why shouldn't anybody be allowed to suggest different interpretations of Scripture to how you interpret it? There is only one true interpretation, and we should all be seeking to find that truth, and we should be able to defend what we believe the truth to be using the Bible - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 UASV:

(16) All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;​

(17) so that the man of God may be fully competent, equipped for every good work.​

Paul preached the simple Gospel, which he declares as - 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 WEB:

(1) Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News {Gospel} which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand,​

(2) by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

(3) For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,​

(4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,​

(5) and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.​

(6) Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.​

(7) Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,​

(8) and last of all, as to the child born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also.​

So to be a Christian you simply need to believe that Jesus, the Messiah (Christ), died to pay for our sins so that we may have eternal life, and that God raised Jesus to life again three days later.

Now Paul also wrote that Jesus will not return for the Church until after there has been a falling away from the truth (apostasy) - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 UASV:

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,​

A large part of that apostasy is the teaching of the Trinity, teaching a new Gospel different from what the Apostles taught. Paul warned, Galatians 1:6-9 WEB:

(6) I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different “good news”;​

(7) and there isn’t another “good news.” Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ.​

(8) But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any “good news” other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.​

(9) As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any “good news” other than that which you received, let him be cursed.​

But even in the early days of the Church, people started adding other requirements in order to be a Christian, e.g. Acts 15:1 WEB:

(1) Some men came down from Judea and taught the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can’t be saved.”​

You might say Christianity is my religion and my hobby. I am 69 years old and do not remember not being a Christian. I was a gifted child and in a Chirstian preparatory college at the age of 15. And participated in college to be a Theologian most of my life.....college proper, online college, and seminars in 5 countries at the historical colleges. Scriptures, antient linguistics, history and archaeology......studied archaeology.

I have never been a pastor, I am a speaker and occasional Sunday School teacher. I worship with several denominations. A true Theologian is not denominational, and I do not expect a denomination to be perfect, most have errors in their beliefs. I love Christians and the heart of a church is more important than their specific beliefs. I believe going to and being involved with the church and Christian community. I will say the Holy Ghost churches are my favorite, not that they are perfect either.

My ministry is about saving people and debunking false beliefs because I believe it is only right for Christians to at least hear the truth whether or not they believe it.

As far as false beliefs, Christianity has had 2000 years to come up with some whoppers as far as false beliefs. False beliefs are powerful and can prevent understanding the scriptures and how they apply Christianity. The three primary false beliefs are the three in one formula for the Trinity, Original Sin, a word....fornication.

The word Trinity is not in the scriptures but their nothing wrong with the theological term. The term Trinity was coined very early in Christian history.....but it did not have the three in one formula to begin with. It meant a Godhead of three Gods. In the 4th century the Catholic church came up with the doctrine of 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity. And made it a mandatory belief. Those that did not believe in the 3 in 1 formula could be killed or excommunicated. The purpose of the doctrine of the 3 in 1 was never intended to convey the truth but to stop the disagreements about God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit because Emperor Constantine insisted on one belief. Then the Protestant adopted the belief.

The doctrine of Original Sin was proposed by Augustine. Augustine had issues with sex. For one he was sexually obsessed. And he figured that if he could not control it, no one could. He thought that this obsession came from the devil and women were demonic instruments of temptation. He believed that Adam and Eve's sin was passed on by sex and procreation. That babies that died went to Hell. This went on to be the foundation of Calvinism, which is seriously messed up and believe that God made mankind to be robots and determine who is saved and who will go to Hell before they are born. No free-will.

The word fornication is not in the scriptures, it is a 5th century Latin word and has a few meanings, one of which is that if a couple have sex before they are married it is a sin. This is false, church wedding ceremonies were not required to be married until the 16th century when Protestants made it so. Before that, couples had sex to be married. The scriptures have no requirement for wedding ceremonies. So if a couple fall in love and have sex before a wedding ceremony, no sin occurred. On the other hand I support the concept of wedding ceremonies. I believe wedding ceremonies bless the couple and their children and brings a religious aspect to the relationship. Of course casual sex is a sin because the first person you had sex with defined a marriage and any casual sex after that is adultery.

Of course there are other false beliefs.