What is New Testament Holiness?

[Episkopos]

Do you understand it was Abraham's FAITH that was counted to him for righteousness? Not his works, not his righteousness that was counted. His works wrought with his FAITH. Understand that he worked righteousness because of his faith, because he believed God - not apart from faith. Same with all the OT saints who were commended by the Lord.

I'm not "putting the world down", I'm talking to those in the CHURCH, who name the name of Christ, who believe anyone can be saved by their own righteousness. God's word, not mine. Trying to show them their error in this.

You are looking in the mirror and accusing others of what you are doing. God decides who is righteous...not you...or some stuffy religious kangaroo court.

The only ones I see trying to be saved by their own righteousness are the ones I'm calling out here. Name it and claim it.

Listen more carefully. The righteous don't see themselves as righteous. But religious people like you..do! Only God sees the righteous as such. The Pharisee didn't think the Publican went home righteous...he judged a sinner just like you do. You are blind to God's ways and His judgments. So you use a religious ideology to fit the world into..and one that you justify yourself with. You don't think the righteous are righteous...you accuse them of what you are doing...self-righteousness. But God is wiser than you.

Repent while you still can...and avoid the judgment of the pharisee.

 

[amadeus]

Anyone who feels led to, may I ask that you please pray for my father's salvation - he's 95 and in hospital right now facing very risky surgery. Thanks and bless you in advance.

Praying for your father!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Anyone who feels led to, may I ask that you please pray for my father's salvation - he's 95 and in hospital right now facing very risky surgery. Thanks and bless you in advance.

Praying

 

[Lizbeth]

You are looking in the mirror and accusing others of what you are doing. God decides who is righteous...not you...or some stuffy religious kangaroo court.

The only ones I see trying to be saved by their own righteousness are the ones I'm calling out here. Name it and claim it.

Listen more carefully. The righteous don't see themselves as righteous. But religious people like you..do! Only God sees the righteous as such. The Pharisee didn't think the Publican went home righteous...he judged a sinner just like you do. You are blind to God's ways and His judgments. So you use a religious ideology to fit the world into..and one that you justify yourself with. You don't think the righteous are righteous...you accuse them of what you are doing...self-righteousness. But God is wiser than you.

Repent while you still can...and avoid the judgment of the pharisee.

The only thing I agree with you with this post is that God is wiser than me. Yes He is! Amen!

But Epi, don't you know the wrong Tree is a Tree of knowledge of GOOD as well as evil? Think about it some.

 

[Episkopos]

The only thing I agree with you with this post is that God is wiser than me. Yes He is! Amen!

But Epi, don't you know the wrong Tree is a Tree of knowledge of GOOD as well as evil? Think about it some.

Matthew 22:10​

“So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”

 

[Lizbeth]

Matthew 22:10​

“So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”

That verse is not related to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, it is talking about preaching the GOSPEL to both bad and good who hadn't hitherto heard the gospel and been invited to come to the wedding ie, Gentiles. Some are/were "decent" folks humanly speaking ranging all the way up to outright criminals. But regardless, ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God remember? Therefore all need Christ and His gospel to be saved. The righteousness of man falls short of the glory....remember Jesus saying that no man is good but God. And the call of the gospel goes out to everyone regardless of their level of sin. God doesn't invite and save only "decent" folk who meet a certain standard. Jesus was talking at the time to Jews who thought according to the Law, that only law keeping so-called righteous folk were worthy. Whereas He was inviting tax collectors, prostitutes and thieves to receive Him, not just those who lived according to "decent" standards.

We can't establish a doctrine on one verse like that but need the whole counsel of God to understand what it is saying in context of the whole of scripture.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

That verse is not related to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, it is talking about preaching the GOSPEL to both bad and good who hadn't hitherto heard the gospel and been invited to come to the wedding ie, Gentiles. Some are/were "decent" folks humanly speaking ranging all the way up to outright criminals. But regardless, ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God remember? Therefore all need Christ and His gospel to be saved. The righteousness of man falls short of the glory....remember Jesus saying that no man is good but God. And the call of the gospel goes out to everyone regardless of their level of sin. God doesn't invite and save only "decent" folk who meet a certain standard. Jesus was talking at the time to Jews who thought according to the Law, that only law keeping so-called righteous folk were worthy. Whereas He was inviting tax collectors, prostitutes and thieves to receive Him, not just those who lived according to "decent" standards.

We can't establish a doctrine on one verse like that but need the whole counsel of God to understand what it is saying in context of the whole of scripture.

How is your dad doing?

 

[Episkopos]

That verse is not related to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, it is talking about preaching the GOSPEL to both bad and good who hadn't hitherto heard the gospel and been invited to come to the wedding ie, Gentiles.

This is as false as can be. You are twisting the plain meaning of verses to suit your indoctrination. Reading skills aside, it doesn't say...and choose guests from AMONG the bad and good. No, it is the bad and good that are the guests at the wedding feast. The bad and good are the righteous. They indeed live from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...as most believers also do. So you are so off base here...you are merely a propagandist having lost any honesty and logic. Instead of doing the twist why not try to understand the Lord's ways...His mercy AND His severity. There is NO balance whatsoever in your muddled thinking. At least not yet. Give your mind a chance.

Some are/were "decent" folks humanly speaking ranging all the way up to outright criminals. But regardless, ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God remember?

You should remember that when you justify yourself and condemn others.

Therefore all need Christ and His gospel to be saved.

Spoken like a true religious conservative. :) Your words are deceptive. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..not just those who seek to exploit His works for their own gains based on religious ideology. You have God backwards. You have justice backwards.

The righteousness of man falls short of the glory....remember Jesus saying that no man is good but God. And the call of the gospel goes out to everyone regardless of their level of sin. God doesn't invite and save only "decent" folk who meet a certain standard. Jesus was talking at the time to Jews who thought according to the Law, that only law keeping so-called righteous folk were worthy. Whereas He was inviting tax collectors, prostitutes and thieves to receive Him, not just those who lived according to "decent" standards.

We can't establish a doctrine on one verse like that but need the whole counsel of God to understand what it is saying in context of the whole of scripture.

This is what you do. Misunderstand a verse here and there and create a false narrative.

The gospel is about sinners repenting into doing what is right in their own power AND calling the righteous upward into the walk in the perfection of Christ in resurrection life.

Two levels...One Gospel.

Without that balance you condemn those whom Jesus died for and uplift those whom God condemns. Your scheme denies both righteousness AND holiness...for a man-made ideology that will be judged severely on judgment day.

Your teachings are thus toxic to the souls of men.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Hebrews 12:
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; ....

Holiness to God in the NT of grace is not so easy bc of societal rule among the churches. It is by their doctrines one lives as opposed to being set apart for service unto God.
We are to be a peculiar ppl, unlike the world, presenting blameless without spot before God. 1Peter 2:9; 2 Peter3:14; Philippians 2:15;

EPHESIANS 5:27 – That He might present to Himself the church In all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

Anything less will be discounted, not fit for God's kingdom !

 

[marks]

So you are so off base here...you are merely a propagandist having lost any honesty and logic. Instead of doing the twist why not try to understand the Lord's ways...His mercy AND His severity. There is NO balance whatsoever in your muddled thinking. At least not yet. Give your mind a chance.

This is what I'm talking about. You claim to be a teacher of holiness and this is how you address others.

You disqualify yourself. You should give serious consideration towards what you think your spiritual maturity is, and how you think and act towards others.

I'm serious!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

This is what I'm talking about. You claim to be a teacher of holiness and this is how you address others.

You disqualify yourself. You should give serious consideration towards what you think your spiritual maturity is, and how you think and act towards others.

I'm serious!

Much love!

Seriously misguided. Holiness doesn't kid around. You are defending what is offensive to God and harmful to God's people...all in the name of a snow-flake political religious correctness. I don't value your opinion.

 

[marks]

Seriously misguided. Holiness doesn't kid around. You are defending what is offensive to God and harmful to God's people...all in the name of a snow-flake political religious correctness. I don't value your opinion.

I'm truly sorry that you cannot see this. I hope one day you will.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm truly sorry that you cannot see this. I hope one day you will.

Much love!

he does not see his own hypocrisy..

if we do it to him, we are angry and lost. But if he does it, it is ok.

Much like the liberal in politics today. they can do no wrong.

 

[Lizbeth]

How is your dad doing?

He is out of surgery and still sedated on a ventilator. The next day or two should let us know whether any of his organs (including brain) have been affected because they had to stop his heart/blood circulation and cool down the body to do a repair to his aorta. Up to now he has unfortunately rejected the gospel and it was/is my dear hope that he might have a change of heart before leaving this world. His heart is still weak too following the surgery. May the Lord yet have mercy on him and give him more time!

 

[Lizbeth]

This is as false as can be. You are twisting the plain meaning of verses to suit your indoctrination. Reading skills aside, it doesn't say...and choose guests from AMONG the bad and good. No, it is the bad and good that are the guests at the wedding feast. The bad and good are the righteous. They indeed live from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...as most believers also do. So you are so off base here...you are merely a propagandist having lost any honesty and logic. Instead of doing the twist why not try to understand the Lord's ways...His mercy AND His severity. There is NO balance whatsoever in your muddled thinking. At least not yet. Give your mind a chance.


You should remember that when you justify yourself and condemn others.


Spoken like a true religious conservative. :) Your words are deceptive. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..not just those who seek to exploit His works for their own gains based on religious ideology. You have God backwards. You have justice backwards.

This is what you do. Misunderstand a verse here and there and create a false narrative.

The gospel is about sinners repenting into doing what is right in their own power AND calling the righteous upward into the walk in the perfection of Christ in resurrection life.

Two levels...One Gospel.

Without that balance you condemn those whom Jesus died for and uplift those whom God condemns. Your scheme denies both righteousness AND holiness...for a man-made ideology that will be judged severely on judgment day.

Your teachings are thus toxic to the souls of men.

You are going to think what you want, but the Jewish mindset under the Law would have excluded any unrighteous as being not worthy of God - but the Messiah came to invite both bad and good to receive forgiveness and partake of His feast. (If you want to bring the Tree of knowledge of good and evil into it, then recognize that those who are eating from that Tree (all who are unsaved IOW) can be either good or bad by human standards, or anything in between.)

It's quite in line with other things Jesus said and did that turned that mindset upside down - such as eating/drinking with sinners, touching lepers to minister to them rather than rejecting and avoiding them, accepting the repentant sinner who beat his breast while rejecting the one who only assumed he was in good standing due to his own outward righteousness, etc.

 

[marks]

if we do it to him,

We should always endeavor to take the high road.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

You are going to think what you want, but the Jewish mindset under the Law would have excluded any unrighteous as being not worthy of God

and you see how the Pharisees took the exact same position that you are espousing?

- but the Messiah came to invite both bad and good to receive forgiveness and partake of His feast.

You don't believe that any are good. The bible remember (No, not one)? Why do you alter your beliefs to defend one point and then change them as desired for another? What is your agenda? What do you think about honesty. Isn't dishonesty unrighteousness...and not approved by God? Why practice it, then?

(If you want to bring the Tree of knowledge of good and evil into it, then recognize that those who are eating from that Tree (all who are unsaved IOW) can be either good or bad by human standards, or anything in between.)

Show me where that reasoning doesn't originate from stretching any kind of logic out of any proportion. I would say...nice try...if there was maybe a little more logic to it. Do you think God's word is based on human standards? If so, when?

It's quite in line with other things Jesus said and did that turned that mindset upside down - such as eating/drinking with sinners, touching lepers to minister to them rather than rejecting and avoiding them, accepting the repentant sinner who beat his breast while rejecting the one who only assumed he was in good standing due to his own outward righteousness, etc.

There is still a logic to what Jesus did. You bounce around without any logical consistency...since your agenda precludes taking anything of Christ seriously unless it fits into your already agreed upon dogmatic stance.

So who are the "good" that Jesus considers good? (Of course you will deny this and any truth that does not conform to your way of thinking).

If Jesus says "good" or "righteous"....you interpret this as "bad" and "self-righteous." Anything but avow the truth. It follows a pattern.

 

[Lizbeth]

You don't believe that any are good. The bible remember (No, not one)?

There is your problem - you need spiritual ears to hear what the spirit is saying. God's ways are higher than man's. His goodness is higher than man's, and that is what Jesus was talking about to the Jews who thought they could be worthy and accepted for their own goodness/righteousness. When Jesus came He raised the bar so to speak. If you even look at a woman to lust you have committed adultery with her......higher standard there. It was time for the "children" being tutored under the Law to graduate and grow up spiritually, so to speak, through a new covenant, when He came.

All humanity fails to make the grade (falls short of the glory) apart from Christ, having His Spirit, His goodness within. There is no being reconciled to God without Jesus, and being reconciled to God is the essence of salvation. How can anyone be saved apart from being reconciled to God? Our sins separated us from God and there is nobody who is without sin - and only through Christ is anyone forgiven of their sins and reconciled and joined back to Him. That's what the bible teaches.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is your problem - you need spiritual ears to hear what the spirit is saying. God's ways are higher than man's. His goodness is higher, and all humanity fails to make the grade (falls short of the glory) apart from Christ, having His Spirit, His goodness within. There is no being reconciled to God without Jesus, and being reconciled to God is the essence of salvation. There is no salvation without it. Our sins separated us from God and only through Christ is anyone forgiven of their sins and reconciled and joined back to Him.

its odd he would mock that you believe what the bible says.

Just goes to show what we all have been saying

 

[amigo de christo]

There is your problem - you need spiritual ears to hear what the spirit is saying. God's ways are higher than man's. His goodness is higher, and all humanity fails to make the grade (falls short of the glory) apart from Christ, having His Spirit, His goodness within. There is no being reconciled to God without Jesus, and being reconciled to God is the essence of salvation. There is no salvation without it. Our sins separated us from God and only through Christ is anyone forgiven of their sins and reconciled and joined back to Him.

Yes indeed dear sister . Let us point to Christ JESUS , reminding all of the one true gospel , of all His teachings ,
of all pure and holy sound doctrine . The dire necessity to BELIEVE on CHRIST , and from that we shall have all we need
to walk honestly and righteously . The LORD is our hope and our salvation . Man at most covers himself with fig leaves .
ONLY in CHRIST JESUS are we clothed with the pure and holy righteousness that cometh of GOD .
Now lift those hands sister , ITS LORD praising time .
Many simply preach mans way of attaining unto salvation , But that my dear sister will not save them .
Let those who are HIS , preach JESUS CHRIST to the last breath .