What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[GracePeace]

I ran a search for the word "predestination" in my Bible and it turned up nothing. Which verse are you referring to?

Look Predestined up in Romans 8

Romans 8:30 - God Works In All Things

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

biblehub.com

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Bob Estey]

Look Predestined up in Romans 8

Romans 8:30 - God Works In All Things

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

biblehub.com

First, if I am predestined to go to hell, why should I bother to obey Jesus? And if I am predestined to go to heaven, why should I bother to obey Jesus? And why would a loving God create someone predestined to spend eternity in hell?

[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30 RSV

So tell me this: Does "foreknew" and "predestined" refer to a moment of time BEFORE we are born, or a moment in time AFTER we are born?

 

[GracePeace]

First, if I am predestined to go to hell, why should I bother to obey Jesus? And if I am predestined to go to heaven, why should I bother to obey Jesus? And why would a loving God create someone predestined to spend eternity in hell?

[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30 RSV

So tell me this: Does "foreknew" and "predestined" refer to a moment of time BEFORE we are born, or a moment in time AFTER we are born?

I'm asking you all for your opinions on it

 

[Bob Estey]

I'm asking you all for your opinions on it

I wouldn't pay any attention to it. That's my opinion. Because if I am already predestined to go to either heaven or hell, nothing I do now will make any difference.

However, I don't believe in predestination. I do believe we should obey the Lord.

 

[GracePeace]

I wouldn't pay any attention to it. That's my opinion. Because if I am already predestined to go to either heaven or hell, nothing I do now will make any difference.

However, I don't believe in predestination. I do believe we should obey the Lord.

It's in the Bible. I'm not saying you ought to INTERPRET "predestined" as others do, only asking you what you make of the word as used in Scripture. If it's in Scripture, what do you mean you don't believe in it? What other Biblical doctrines do you reject?

 

[Bob Estey]

It's in the Bible. I'm not saying you ought to INTERPRET "predestined" as others do, only asking you what you make of the word as used in Scripture. If it's in Scripture, what do you mean you don't believe in it? What other Biblical doctrines do you reject?

First, I raised a question that you haven't answered yet:

"So tell me this: Does 'foreknew' and 'predestined' refer to a moment of time BEFORE we are born, or a moment in time AFTER we are born?"

Also, I do not feel bound by the things Paul says. I only feel bound by the things Jesus and God say.

 

[GracePeace]

First, I raised a question that you haven't answered yet:

"So tell me this: Does 'foreknew' and 'predestined' refer to a moment of time BEFORE we are born, or a moment in time AFTER we are born?"

Also, I do not feel bound by the things Paul says. I only feel bound by the things Jesus and God say.

1. Nowhere on the thread have I defined "predestined"; I've only solicited opinions.

2. OK

 

[Bob Estey]

1. Nowhere on the thread have I defined "predestined"; I've only solicited opinions.

2. OK

1. And asked questions.

 

[GracePeace]

First, I raised a question that you haven't answered yet:

"So tell me this: Does 'foreknew' and 'predestined' refer to a moment of time BEFORE we are born, or a moment in time AFTER we are born?"

Also, I do not feel bound by the things Paul says. I only feel bound by the things Jesus and God say.

In this case, your answer would be "I reject Paul's teachings, so 'predestination' doesn't affect my life."

 

[GracePeace]

1. And asked questions.

I'm asking you all for your opinions on it. I haven't given it much thought, apart from rejecting the conventional understanding of it, since, for instance, Paul warns the very same people who were saved that they can be cut off for unbelief... so, then, how could it mean "If you believed unto salvation, your destination is unchangeable"?

The reason I'm asking is to get more information on it, since I want it to have bearing on my life.

 

[Bob Estey]

In this case, your answer would be "I reject Paul's teachings, so 'predestination' doesn't affect my life."

You are putting words into my mouth. When did I say I reject Paul's teachings? He was a great man. But he wasn't God.

As for predestination, if I am predestined to go to heaven or hell, what does it matter what I do?

 

[Bob Estey]

I'm asking you all for your opinions on it. I haven't given it much thought, apart from rejecting the conventional understanding of it, since, for instance, Paul warns the very same people who were saved that they can be cut off for unbelief... so, then, how could it mean "If you believed unto salvation, your destination is unchangeable"?

The reason I'm asking is to get more information on it, since I want it to have bearing on my life.

As I keep saying, if we are predestined to go to heaven or hell, what does it matter what we do?

I wouldn't take that approach. Obey God. You will be rewarded - that is faith.

 

[GracePeace]

You are putting words into my mouth. When did I say I reject Paul's teachings? He was a great man. But he wasn't God.

Thank you for clarifying. I had misunderstood you when you said

...I do not feel bound by the things Paul says. I only feel bound by the things Jesus and God say.

As for predestination, if I am predestined to go to heaven or hell, what does it matter what I do?

As stated (and I do not want to keep repeating myself): I am not certain I know the meaning of predestination, or its implications, but I have, in the past, rejected the conventional understanding of it, because Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, "predestined" to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief (Ro 11:17+).

 

[Bob Estey]

Thank you for clarifying. I had misunderstood you when you said



As stated (and I do not want to keep repeating myself): I am not certain I know the meaning of predestination, or its implications, but I have, in the past, rejected the conventional understanding of it, because Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, "predestined" to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief (Ro 11:17+).

I don't know if it matters, but "predestined" and "predestination" do not mean the exact same thing.

God has created a world where we can be happy if we love him with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:34-40). The Bible helps explain what that means. When we disobey those two commandments, things get unpleasant. For instance, if I rob a bank, I will go to prison.

We've all sinned. That isn't what matters. What matters is that we repent. God forgives us of our past sins when we do.

 

[Bob Estey]

Thank you for clarifying. I had misunderstood you when you said



As stated (and I do not want to keep repeating myself): I am not certain I know the meaning of predestination, or its implications, but I have, in the past, rejected the conventional understanding of it, because Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, "predestined" to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief (Ro 11:17+).

Here is a scripture that addresses what happens to people who are righteous, but then turn to sin; and people who sin, but repent of their sin:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

 

[ScottA]

What is predestination?

How is predestination brought to bear upon your life? What evidence is there that you believe it? How has it affected your life, or how does it affect yourself life?

If it doesn't affect your life, would you say it's good that your life remains unaffected by Biblical doctrine?

I would like to hear from both sides (Monergists and Synergists).

Please make an effort to keep all discussion on topic and try to refrain from "flaming" other users who will disagree with you.

There is actually no predestination. Here is the definition of the original word:

προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively) predetermine:—determine before, ordain, predestinate.​

"Predestinate" from Romans 8:29 is simply world-speak for "before the foundation of the world"--and Paul was just elaborating what that looks like in the lives of people living in the midst of a story (history, i.e. His story) that was written before the world began and is now just unfolding in an ungodly world set apart from God who does not even exist on a timeline let alone within the pages of a book He has written and now reads as an act of revelation to the characters named in it. Which does not mean that God knows things before they occur. It actually means God wrote or rather recorded it within the timelessness of eternity, and this is just us walking out the pages of what is written. I mean, really--when you read a book with a story timeline, is the timeline actually happening as your read it? Maybe to the characters in it, as you put yourself into the storyline--but no, that is foolishness; and to someone outside the book--like God, its not even on a timeline...but all one work prepared before it was published.

I have been explaining this reality of God on many threads here, which is mostly passed off as crazy. Because, yes, right-side-up, looks upside-down to those who are themselves upside-down. Meanwhile...as it is written, knowledge of what is actually true was to increase by the renewing of your mind, and the mystery of God to be finished just before the end. Meaning, one either begins to wake up from the world-view to the right-side-up view of the reality of God--and becomes part of the solution rather than part of the problem, or is simply all the more surprised to wake up on their head.

This is that time foretold. It's time to decide how you want to transition between time and eternity, whether gradually in foretold knowledge, or with the jolt of ignorance.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't know if it matters, but "predestined" and "predestination" do not mean the exact same thing.

God has created a world where we can be happy if we love him with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:34-40). The Bible helps explain what that means. When we disobey those two commandments, things get unpleasant. For instance, if I rob a bank, I will go to prison.

We've all sinned. That isn't what matters. What matters is that we repent. God forgives us of our past sins when we do.

Just asking what people think "predestined" means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation.

 

[GracePeace]

Here is a scripture that addresses what happens to people who are righteous, but then turn to sin; and people who sin, but repent of their sin:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

The discussion is about what people think "predestined" means.

 

[GracePeace]

There is actually no predestination.

Sorry, the word is in Scripture.

Here is the definition of the original word:

προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively) predetermine:—determine before, ordain, predestinate.​

So you agree its in Scripture.

"Predestinate" from Romans 8:29 is simply world-speak for "before the foundation of the world"--and Paul was just elaborating what that looks like in the lives of people living in the midst of a story (history, i.e. His story) that was written before the world began and is now just unfolding in an ungodly world set apart from God who does not even exist on a timeline let alone within the pages of a book He has written and now reads as an act of revelation to the characters named in it.

Not sure how this clarifies the concept.

Which does not mean that God knows things before they occur.

He actually says He does know--and this is one of the proofs He is God. Are you unacquainted with those prominent passages?

It actually means God wrote or rather recorded it within the timelessness of eternity, and this is just us walking out the pages of what is written. I mean, really--when you read a book with a story timeline, is the timeline actually happening as your read it? Maybe to the characters in it, as you put yourself into the storyline--but no, that is foolishness; and to someone outside the book--like God, its not even on a timeline...but all one work prepared before it was published.

Not sure how this clarifies or defines the concept.

I have been explaining this reality of God on many threads here, which is mostly passed off as crazy. Because, yes, right-side-up, looks upside-down to those who are themselves upside-down. Meanwhile...as it is written, knowledge of what is actually true was to increase by the renewing of your mind, and the mystery of God to be finished just before the end. Meaning, one either begins to wake up from the world-view to the right-side-up view of the reality of God--and becomes part of the solution rather than part of the problem, or is simply all the more surprised to wake up on their head.

This is that time foretold. It's time to decide how you want to transition between time and eternity, whether gradually in foretold knowledge, or with the jolt of ignorance.

I didn't find this helpful or relevant to the topic, unless you're just saying you reject the conventional understanding of it (as I do).