What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[marks]

Predestine, from prohoridzo, is "to limit in advance". So then, those he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of Christ.

So then, the ones whom God foreknew, He place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image.

Understanding this encourages me that God is always working, and my outcome is assured, so I can live with confidence. In other words, it builds my faith.

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

Just asking what people think "predestined" means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation.

The discussion is about what people think "predestined" means.

You were the one who said, "Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, "predestined" to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief." Both of my posts were meant to address that.

 

[RedFan]

Predestine, from prohoridzo, is "to limit in advance". So then, those he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of Christ.

So then, the ones whom God foreknew, He place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image.

Understanding this encourages me that God is always working, and my outcome is assured, so I can live with confidence. In other words, it builds my faith.

Much love!

I don't see it that way. If God wills something to happen or some event to occur, then it is going to happen, period. And if God wills something to happen contingently or some event to occur contingently, then it will come to fruition if and only if the contingency is satisfied. God can structure things either way. It's His call.

For example, if God wills all mankind to be saved, but contingent on their acceptance of Jesus Christ, that falls into the contingent willing category. But to say that their acceptance of Jesus Christ is preordained so as to destroy any meaningful choice or free will -- which is how I understand your phrase "place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image" -- would get rid of the contingent willing category altogether. I am not prepared to go there.

By the way, a contingent willing category is fully consistent with God's foreknowledge of the outcome. His foreknowledge is not causal.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry, the word is in Scripture.

So you agree its in Scripture.

Not sure how this clarifies the concept.

He actually says He does know--and this is one of the proofs He is God. Are you unacquainted with those prominent passages?

Not sure how this clarifies or defines the concept.

I didn't find this helpful or relevant to the topic, unless you're just saying you reject the conventional understanding of it (as I do).

"Predestinate" is not in scripture but only translated as such. There are other possible ways to translate the meaning...which I have expounded upon.

I also explained the context meaning of how "He actually says He does know (before things occur)." The point being, since both what occurred and His knowledge of it were "before"--then there is no occurrence later to foretell...because it too was "before" ("before the foundation of the world").

All of which, yes, is not "relevant" to any worldly understanding...which indeed makes it most "relevant to the topic." Surely you did not start the thread to remain in darkness, but rather to hopefully get to the actual truth...which I have provided.

 

[Bob Estey]

The discussion is about what people think "predestined" means.

If I were in eighth grade and asked my teacher how to fly a rocket to the moon, he might give me a vague answer, but to really understand, I'd need to go to college for many years to learn how that's done.

So you are asking a question, but I don't know if you are ready for the answer.

 

[marks]

I don't see it that way. If God wills something to happen or some event to occur, then it is going to happen, period. And if God wills something to happen contingently or some event to occur contingently, then it will come to fruition if and only if the contingency is satisfied. God can structure things either way. It's His call.

For example, if God wills all mankind to be saved, but contingent on their acceptance of Jesus Christ, that falls into the contingent willing category. But to say that their acceptance of Jesus Christ is preordained so as to destroy any meaningful choice or free will -- which is how I understand your phrase "place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image" -- would get rid of the contingent willing category altogether. I am not prepared to go there.

By the way, a contingent willing category is fully consistent with God's foreknowledge of the outcome. His foreknowledge is not causal.

In the case of Romans 8, this predestination is specified to only apply to "whom He did foreknow". The outcome of the predestination is not declared to be regeneration itself, rather, being conformed to the image of Christ.

I believe that God reveals Himself to everyone at some time in their life, and we have to choose whether we will believe or not. If we choose to believe, He regenerates us. And having foreknown this, He has placed limits in our lives that will make certain the outcome. He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I agree with you, foreknowledge is simply knowing ahead of time, not causation. And it's not that some are predestined to be born again, rather, the born again have been predestined to become like Jesus.

Hopefully that will clarify?

Much love!

 

[RedFan]

In the case of Romans 8, this predestination is specified to only apply to "whom He did foreknow". The outcome of the predestination is not declared to be regeneration itself, rather, being conformed to the image of Christ.

I believe that God reveals Himself to everyone at some time in their life, and we have to choose whether we will believe or not. If we choose to believe, He regenerates us. And having foreknown this, He has placed limits in our lives that will make certain the outcome. He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I agree with you, foreknowledge is simply knowing ahead of time, not causation. And it's not that some are predestined to be born again, rather, the born again have been predestined to become like Jesus.

Hopefully that will clarify?

Much love!

Thanks.

 

[GracePeace]

Predestine, from prohoridzo, is "to limit in advance". So then, those he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of Christ.

So then, the ones whom God foreknew, He place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image.

Understanding this encourages me that God is always working, and my outcome is assured, so I can live with confidence. In other words, it builds my faith.

Much love!

I don't know why only the Monergist types have found this question easily answerable, whereas the Synergist types have come in with guns blazing trying to "debunk" me (when I'd put no definition forth). "Methinks they doth protest much."

Thanks.

 

[GracePeace]

I agree with you, foreknowledge is simply knowing ahead of time, not causation. And it's not that some are predestined to be born again, rather, the born again have been predestined to become like Jesus.

If the foreknowledge precedes and precipitates the faith unto justification, isn't it causation of faith, not only addressing a destiny for believers (conformity to Christ's image)?

 

[GracePeace]

If I were in eighth grade and asked my teacher how to fly a rocket to the moon, he might give me a vague answer, but to really understand, I'd need to go to college for many years to learn how that's done.

So you are asking a question, but I don't know if you are ready for the answer.

You all aren't my teachers--not every person who shares information is automatically a "teacher".

I'm not really interested in ancillary thoughts, which is why I only asked about "predestined" and how it affects your lives.

 

[RedFan]

If the foreknowledge precedes and precipitates the faith unto justification, isn't it causation of faith, not only addressing a destiny for believers (conformity to Christ's image)?

How can foreknowledge "precipitate" anything?

 

[GracePeace]

"Predestinate" is not in scripture but only translated as such. There are other possible ways to translate the meaning...which I have expounded upon.

I also explained the context meaning of how "He actually says He does know (before things occur)." The point being, since both what occurred and His knowledge of it were "before"--then there is no occurrence later to foretell...because it too was "before" ("before the foundation of the world").

All of which, yes, is not "relevant" to any worldly understanding...which indeed makes it most "relevant to the topic." Surely you did not start the thread to remain in darkness, but rather to hopefully get to the actual truth...which I have provided.

I don't know why only Monergist types have found this question easily answerable, whereas Synergist types have come out with guns blazing, and typically arrogantly trying to attack a view I never espoused.

 

[GracePeace]

How can foreknowledge "precipitate" anything?

Because those He foreknew He predestined, those He predestined He called, those He called He justified (through faith)--the faith doesn't occur apart from predestination.

 

[RedFan]

Because those He foreknew He predestined, those He predestined He called, those He called He justified (through faith)--the faith doesn't occur apart from predestination.

As a causation theory this makes no sense. God knows that all ravens are black because all ravens are black, not the other way around.

 

[Bob Estey]

You all aren't my teachers--not every person who shares information is automatically a "teacher".

I'm not really interested in ancillary thoughts, which is why I only asked about "predestined" and how it affects your lives.

Yes, but you've asked several questions, and when I answered one of your questions, you said, "Just asking what people think 'predestined' means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation." I don't think you're ready for the answer(s) you are looking for.

 

[GracePeace]

You were the one who said, "Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, "predestined" to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief." Both of my posts were meant to address that.

My comment was only meant to demonstrate a reason I don't accept the conventional understanding of "predestine"; I'm still looking for peoples' opinions on "predestine".

 

[GracePeace]

As a causation theory this makes no sense. God knows that all ravens are black because all ravens are black, not the other way around.

You mean it doesn't follow that all those who believe unto justification were called because they were predestined because they were foreknown?

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, but you've asked several questions, and when I answered one of your questions, you said, "Just asking what people think 'predestined' means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation." I don't think you're ready for the answer(s) you are looking for.

Or maybe I didn't find your "answers" particularly informative or helpful?

 

[RedFan]

You mean it doesn't follow that all those who believes unto justification were called because they were predestined because they were foreknown?

I mean simply that predestination is a choice/action of God, and foreknowledge is not. Predestination is causal, foreknowledge is not. To edit your statement "all those who believes unto justification were called because they were predestined because they were foreknown," just strike the last "because" and replace with "and since God is omniscient." Then it would be accurate.

 

[ScottA]

To all,

This is perhaps the best explanation:

Predestine, from prohoridzo, is "to limit in advance". So then, those he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of Christ.

So then, the ones whom God foreknew, He place limits in their lives that will make certain that they will in the end be conformed to Christ's image.

Understanding this encourages me that God is always working, and my outcome is assured, so I can live with confidence. In other words, it builds my faith.

But even that is limited to the perspective of existing within the pages of all that is written--written "before." Please understand, that all of what is written "was" written "before" the world was--before any of our world experiences began.

Indeed, there are two completely different contexts: God's, and that of the world. That is the context of the Author, and that of the book. Are the context of an author and that of any book, the same? Of course not. These are the terms that are being discussed here. Therefore to actually understand and get to the meaning of the idea of "predestination", it must first be understood that if we only remain or allow the context of what occurs within the snow-globe of this world--we are not going to get the answer to the question--because that is the limit we have placed on our ability to actually understand in full.

Are you following me? Do you understand that the world and its terms are separated from the kingdom of God by "a flaming sword which turns every way?" And unless we "put out our hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat" the terms are limited to the lower understanding of this world which is beneath this entire topic, which pertains rather to God and is higher? Can or are you willing to go there, or would you prefer to stay comfortably limited to all the world has been able to know in times past? Because you can't get blood out of a turnip, and likewise you can't get the higher answers from these lower regions.

If you are willing then, imagine you are the author of the life of your dream child. You write the story with all their life and times, and are well pleased; you publish it, and then it is read...but read by the child that its about, as it was in your own mind like an autobiography in living color, like a movie or a dream that follows the life of your child from birth to death, as from their own perspective. Which of course would be impossible for us, but not impossible for God. And that--is what we have here, here in this world. This is that movie running in the mind of the Author (God) which places "real time" as zip in the greater realm of eternity...but has a timeline as follows for those in the story. His story, and our. And it is in that reality (God's reality) that there is no actual predestination, but rather "what is written" in the mind of God.

Is there predestination in the story--well kind of, I mean, how else would you explain a timeline where there actually is no timeline per se? Well, the better word to understand than predestination, is "revelation"--which just happens to be what happens when one reads or experiences what "is written"--written where time does not exist.

God is reading to us, unfolding that which was written before this timeline world began to be revealed, and continues like the turning of the pages of a book until the end.

"Rise, let us be going!"