What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[GracePeace]

What is predestination?

How is predestination brought to bear upon your life? What evidence is there that you believe it? How has it affected your life, or how does it affect yourself life?

If it doesn't affect your life, would you say it's good that your life remains unaffected by Biblical doctrine?

I would like to hear from both sides (Monergists and Synergists).

Please make an effort to keep all discussion on topic and try to refrain from "flaming" other users who will disagree with you.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Isaiah 45:12-13
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 9:11
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Romans 9:15-16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Romans 8:28, 29
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

* "evil" in either translations: disaster, calamity, troubles

* This does not mean He causes us to sin;
but chasting, punishments, judgment, tribulations are part of His plan. I'm sure you don't think the ten plagues sent to Pharoah and Egypt were blessings?

Acts 4:28
to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur.

1 Corinthians 2:7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;


Romans 8:30
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,

Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.””

Acts 4:28
to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur.

1 Corinthians 2:7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

 

[GracePeace]

Isaiah 45:12-13
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 9:11
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Romans 9:15-16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Romans 8:28, 29
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

* "evil" in either translations: disaster, calamity, troubles

* This does not mean He causes us to sin;
but chasting, punishments, judgment, tribulations are part of His plan. I'm sure you don't think the ten plagues sent to Pharoah and Egypt were blessings?

Acts 4:28
to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur.

1 Corinthians 2:7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;


Romans 8:30
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,

Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.””

Acts 4:28
to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur.

1 Corinthians 2:7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

Would it be correct to say you would define "predestination" as a Monergist would--that it means God chose you before time, then saved you in His time, and, since that is so, those who are saved cannot thereafter forfeit salvation?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Would it be correct to say you would define "predestination" as a Monergist would--that it means God chose you before time, then saved you in His time, and, since that is so, those who are saved cannot thereafter forfeit salvation?

Predestines is based on foreknowledge

We (those who are saved) have been predestined to be conformed to his image.

If we have been predestined.. then how can we be unpredestined.

 

[GracePeace]

Predestines is based on foreknowledge

We (those who are saved) have been predestined to be conformed to his image.

If we have been predestined.. then how can we be unpredestined.

Sounds "logical".

 

[GracePeace]

I'm curious as to the thoughts of Synergists who have considered this issue.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Would it be correct to say you would define "predestination" as a Monergist would--that it means God chose you before time, then saved you in His time, and, since that is so, those who are saved cannot thereafter forfeit salvation?

Not really sure if I am a Monergist, not familiar with the full spectrum of the term.
We are saved by grace through faith and this a gift, not by works, so no one can boast. The Holy Spirit regenerates a person [the new birth] We cooperate in a sense that when He calls, we hear His voice and come and believe in Christ.
God draws all men to himself, but some resist, and our cooperation is a small response, we turn to Him and humbly say yes LORD, I believe.
We are the elect according to His will and purpose, before the foundation of the world. JESUS said, "No one can come to the Father unless He draws them"!

 

[GracePeace]

Not really sure if I am a Monergist, not familiar with the full spectrum of the term.
We are saved by grace through faith and this a gift, not by works, so no one can boast. The Holy Spirit regenerates a person [the new birth] We cooperate in a sense that when He calls, we hear His voice and come and believe in Christ.
God draws all men to himself, but some resist, and our cooperation is a small response, we turn to Him and humbly say yes LORD, I believe.
We are the elect according to His will and purpose, before the foundation of the world. JESUS said, "No one can come to the Father unless He draws them"!

So, you would say that once a person is saved, they cannot lose their salvation, and this is, in part, because of "predestination"?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, you would say that once a person is saved, they cannot lose their salvation, and this is, in part, because of "predestination"?

Not just predestination. But the promise God gave.

The issue we need to confirm is is God a God who keeps his promises. or a God who does not keep his promises.. And if he does not. Is he a just God?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So, you would say that once a person is saved, they cannot lose their salvation, and this is, in part, because of "predestination"?

OSAS. God does not make mistakes. "He is the Author of our faith". "He knows the beginning from the end". The scriptures I shared state that we are chosen, predestined, called, sanctified and justifed by faith and sealed by the Holy Spirit. The new creature is made holy, pure in God's sight. "We have past from death to life". So the wages of sin has been paid for by Christ. His death was sufficient. If there was something more to be done to secure our salvation, then it would be implying that His death was not enough.
Of course we still live in this fleshly body, with the remnants of the old self. So now with the help, comfort, guidance, wisdom, love, teaching, edification, convictions of the Holy Spirit, Who dwells in us, we are encouraged daily to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. Everyday we start out with a prayer for wisdom and guidance to deal with the days new challenges, obstacles and evils. We are really to be on prayer without ceasing, having a continual open channel to God with everything decision and act. But we don't always do that, we get involved sometimes entangled and are faced with difficulties we struggle with - because we try to wing it ourselves. We leave God out of it, as if saying, "I got this Lord"! Sure you do. Don't leave God out of anything!
It is apparent that we still sometimes do the same things as the unregenerate do, we sin. But it is not sin unto death, we don't habitually live like we used to. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind." So spiritual maturity takes time. Simply, we learn how to he more loving. His two commandments were to love God and love our neighbor - even our enemies! That's easy to say, but not to do. We fall short all the time. We are selfish at times and just don't feel like it: "Sorry I can't love you today, I have other plans, personal matters to attend to ... I'll pray for you." We chose not to love at a moment that we could have and should have. We disobeyed the commandment. We get the idea of what sin is from the Ten Commandments. So we try to keep them, but sometimes fail. Jesus said all the commandments fall under the two He gave.
So spiritually, sanctification is instant, we are made separate and are "in Christ". Now we must behave differently. The change in our behavior isn't instant, it is gradual, a process. If we all of a sudden were really like Jesus, the world would see it. They would see that Joe was a drug addict, a cussing, back stabbing, thief, whoremaster, wicked man and now is a pure Saint _ overnight. He traveled to India and took Mother Teresa's spot, working with the impoverished orphans ... No, I think so. It doesn't happen that fast. Some healing can miraculously take place like a drug addiction cure and certanly a miracle does take place, a new creature, but normally we grow to be like Christ. Paul had a miraculous transformation, but not everyone has that abrupt change. He still had to grow and learn the way. It took time.
I am not a Catholic, but I consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. I remember an interview with Mother Teresa before she died. The reporter asked her, " Who will take your place after you have gone?" She looked at her and said, "You can!" Wow, an uncomfortable silence came over the reporter, an apparent instant rejection and guilt at the same time, as if appalled... "Who me ... I can't ... do that. It is not my calling ... " Whatever she thought or said, it was clear that her answer was no. And most us would say no to that, right? She was likely a Catholic, likely single without children and a good person - saved. But "No, not me"! We say that often don't we, when given the opportunity to love one another, NO!

Sorry for the lengthy post. This OSAS has been a heated topic for generations. There are paradoxes in the Bible. My Pastor used to say, "There is a tension between the two realms ( physical and spiritual). We are in the already, but not yet state of eternal existence."
Some day we will be rid of this tent and separate from it and ascend to be who we were meant to be, when our redemption is fully consummated, perfect. We are waiting for our resurrection, our new bodies.

 

[Spyder]

Would it not be senseless for God to tell us of how people will fall away and what the penalty is if it were impossible to do? If we use scripture for understanding, I'll help by providing some here:

Matthew 7:21 ESV

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:22 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 13:3-8 ESV

And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 24:4-6 ESV

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:13 ESV

But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:24 ESV

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:13 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 8:13 ESV

And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

John 3:36 ESV

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 15:6 ESV

If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Romans 8:12-13 ESV

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:19-22 ESV

Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 10:12 ESV

Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 15:2 ESV

And by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 4:9 ESV

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?

Galatians 6:8-9 ESV

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 1:21-23 ESV

And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Hebrews 3:12-14 ESV

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 5:9 ESV

And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

James 5:19-20 ESV

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1:10 ESV

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 2:4-5 ESV

“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. ...

Revelation 3:2-5 ESV

Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Would it not be senseless for God to tell us of how people will fall away and what the penalty is if it were impossible to do? If we use scripture for understanding, I'll help by providing some here:

Matthew 7:21 ESV

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

These people were never saved, They thought their works saved them, which is why they use their works as a means to why God should let them in

Matthew 10:22 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

This concerns the tribulation period. and physical life. Not eternal life.. He who endures until Christ returns will be saved

Matthew 13:3-8 ESV

And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 24:4-6 ESV

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:13 ESV

But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:24 ESV

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:13 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 8:13 ESV

And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

John 3:36 ESV

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 15:6 ESV

If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Romans 8:12-13 ESV

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:19-22 ESV

Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 10:12 ESV

Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 15:2 ESV

And by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 4:9 ESV

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?

Galatians 6:8-9 ESV

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 1:21-23 ESV

And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Hebrews 3:12-14 ESV

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 5:9 ESV

And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

James 5:19-20 ESV

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1:10 ESV

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 2:4-5 ESV

“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. ...

Revelation 3:2-5 ESV

Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

so when Jesus says you will never die. did he lie?
When he says you will live forever. Did he lie?
Did God contradict himself??

 

[Spyder]

These people were never saved, They thought their works saved them, which is why they use their works as a means to why God should let them in

This concerns the tribulation period. and physical life. Not eternal life.. He who endures until Christ returns will be saved

so when Jesus says you will never die. did he lie?
When he says you will live forever. Did he lie?
Did God contradict himself??

Well, sir, you did not answer my question. Yahweh is not a god of confusion, nor is He a deceiver. He had Yeshua and His disciples warn us against being blotted out of the Book of Life. It is imperative that we don't make the scriptures say things that we want to be true.

 

[GracePeace]

Not just predestination. But the promise God gave.

The issue we need to confirm is is God a God who keeps his promises. or a God who does not keep his promises.. And if he does not. Is he a just God?

I really don't want to get into a debate/discussion on OSAS, just on the definitions (and implications of those definitions) of predestination

 

[GracePeace]

OSAS. God does not make mistakes. "He is the Author of our faith". "He knows the beginning from the end". The scriptures I shared state that we are chosen, predestined, called, sanctified and justifed by faith and sealed by the Holy Spirit. The new creature is made holy, pure in God's sight. "We have past from death to life". So the wages of sin has been paid for by Christ. His death was sufficient. If there was something more to be done to secure our salvation, then it would be implying that His death was not enough.
Of course we still live in this fleshly body, with the remnants of the old self. So now with the help, comfort, guidance, wisdom, love, teaching, edification, convictions of the Holy Spirit, Who dwells in us, we are encouraged daily to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. Everyday we start out with a prayer for wisdom and guidance to deal with the days new challenges, obstacles and evils. We are really to be on prayer without ceasing, having a continual open channel to God with everything decision and act. But we don't always do that, we get involved sometimes entangled and are faced with difficulties we struggle with - because we try to wing it ourselves. We leave God out of it, as if saying, "I got this Lord"! Sure you do. Don't leave God out of anything!
It is apparent that we still sometimes do the same things as the unregenerate do, we sin. But it is not sin unto death, we don't habitually live like we used to. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind." So spiritual maturity takes time. Simply, we learn how to he more loving. His two commandments were to love God and love our neighbor - even our enemies! That's easy to say, but not to do. We fall short all the time. We are selfish at times and just don't feel like it: "Sorry I can't love you today, I have other plans, personal matters to attend to ... I'll pray for you." We chose not to love at a moment that we could have and should have. We disobeyed the commandment. We get the idea of what sin is from the Ten Commandments. So we try to keep them, but sometimes fail. Jesus said all the commandments fall under the two He gave.
So spiritually, sanctification is instant, we are made separate and are "in Christ". Now we must behave differently. The change in our behavior isn't instant, it is gradual, a process. If we all of a sudden were really like Jesus, the world would see it. They would see that Joe was a drug addict, a cussing, back stabbing, thief, whoremaster, wicked man and now is a pure Saint _ overnight. He traveled to India and took Mother Teresa's spot, working with the impoverished orphans ... No, I think so. It doesn't happen that fast. Some healing can miraculously take place like a drug addiction cure and certanly a miracle does take place, a new creature, but normally we grow to be like Christ. Paul had a miraculous transformation, but not everyone has that abrupt change. He still had to grow and learn the way. It took time.
I am not a Catholic, but I consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. I remember an interview with Mother Teresa before she died. The reporter asked her, " Who will take your place after you have gone?" She looked at her and said, "You can!" Wow, an uncomfortable silence came over the reporter, an apparent instant rejection and guilt at the same time, as if appalled... "Who me ... I can't ... do that. It is not my calling ... " Whatever she thought or said, it was clear that her answer was no. And most us would say no to that, right? She was likely a Catholic, likely single without children and a good person - saved. But "No, not me"! We say that often don't we, when given the opportunity to love one another, NO!

Sorry for the lengthy post. This OSAS has been a heated topic for generations. There are paradoxes in the Bible. My Pastor used to say, "There is a tension between the two realms ( physical and spiritual). We are in the already, but not yet state of eternal existence."
Some day we will be rid of this tent and separate from it and ascend to be who we were meant to be, when our redemption is fully consummated, perfect. We are waiting for our resurrection, our new bodies.

I really don't want to get into a debate/discussion on OSAS, just on the definitions (and implications of those definitions) of "predestination".

 

[GracePeace]

Would it not be senseless for God to tell us of how people will fall away and what the penalty is if it were impossible to do? If we use scripture for understanding, I'll help by providing some here:

Matthew 7:21 ESV

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:22 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 13:3-8 ESV

And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 24:4-6 ESV

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:13 ESV

But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:24 ESV

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:13 ESV

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 8:13 ESV

And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

John 3:36 ESV

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 15:6 ESV

If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Romans 8:12-13 ESV

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:19-22 ESV

Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 10:12 ESV

Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 15:2 ESV

And by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 4:9 ESV

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?

Galatians 6:8-9 ESV

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 1:21-23 ESV

And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Hebrews 3:12-14 ESV

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 5:9 ESV

And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

James 5:19-20 ESV

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1:10 ESV

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 2:4-5 ESV

“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. ...

Revelation 3:2-5 ESV

Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

I really wanted this discussion to revolve around predestination--how people of differing persuasions define the Biblical concept, and what it means for how Christians live their lives.

I probably misnamed the thread. Lol

How does predestination shape your day to day walk?

 

[GracePeace]

These people were never saved, They thought their works saved them, which is why they use their works as a means to why God should let them in

This concerns the tribulation period. and physical life. Not eternal life.. He who endures until Christ returns will be saved

so when Jesus says you will never die. did he lie?
When he says you will live forever. Did he lie?
Did God contradict himself??

I renamed the thread.

It should readjust the conversation.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I really don't want to get into a debate/discussion on OSAS, just on the definitions (and implications of those definitions) of "predestination".

Good, that is why I tried to include as much as possible in one shot, nothing more to add. Accept or reject it and move on. I'm done. I anticipated that many do reject it - that is par for the course.
You must realize that if God predestined our salvation that implies we have a secure salvation = OSAS.

 

[GracePeace]

Good, that is why I tried to include as much as possible in one shot, nothing more to add. Accept or reject it and move on. I'm done. I anticipated that many do reject it - that is par for the course.

I renamed the thread so it better reflects the conversation I was wanting to have.

Apologies for the confusion the previous naming had caused.

 

[GracePeace]

Galatians 4:9 ESV But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?

Just a quick tangent (don't want this to take the discussion over): this calls to mind the Israelites who, during their wilderness wanderings, wanted to go back to Egypt.