What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[Big Boy Johnson]

Regarding "predestination": Since John's Gospel says, "In the beginning was the Word..." and "... you have been with Me from the beginning", did John intend to allude to the idea that we were "with Him", in some sense, "before the world was founded"?

Seems to be all about Jesus...

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


God had foreknowledge of all people before they were created and nothing suggests man has existed in ages past like God has and we were like God in that we have always existed.

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[GracePeace]

Seems to be all about Jesus...

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


God had foreknowledge of all people before they were created and nothing suggests man has existed in ages past like God has and we were like God in that we have always existed.

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Right, being that they were in the Lamb's Book of Life before the world was, I am drawing a line between that and Jesus's statement "for you have been with me from the beginning". John's Gospel is self-referential, so permitting John to interpret John leads to this conclusion. Which "beginning"? "In the beginning".

 

[Peterlag]

Right, being that they were in the Lamb's Book of Life before the world was, I am drawing a line between that and Jesus's statement "for you have been with me from the beginning". John's Gospel is self-referential, so permitting John to interpret John leads to this conclusion. Which "beginning"? "In the beginning".

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand, and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand, and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

But they are specifically called by God. Only those can come to Jesus,as Jesus stated.

The very identity of , "God's Elect", tells us this.

The Elect aren't those who elect to choose Jesus. That is nowhere in scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

But they are specifically called by God. Only those can come to Jesus,as Jesus stated.

The very identity of , "God's Elect", tells us this.

The Elect aren't those who elect to choose Jesus. That is nowhere in scripture.

God called everyone. God's will is for everyone to be saved and come unto the knowledge of God. But only certain people answer the call.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

IN verse 26 Jesus is speaking of the Holy Ghost bearing witness of Him, and in verse 27 He is saying the disciples will bear witness of him also since the disciples being with Jesus from the start of His ministry.

John 15:26,27
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

The disciples were just men like us and were created by God 9+ months before coming out of their momma just like the rest of us. Nothing suggests they were with God from the very beginning like God's Word was with God spoken of in John 1:1

 

[Cyd]

The disciples were just men like us and were created by God 9+ months before coming out of their momma just like the rest of us. Nothing suggests they were with God from the very beginning like God's Word was with God spoken of in John 1:1

Then what do these scriptures mean?
Mt 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

is ascending the same as being caught up? Just asking.

 

[GracePeace]

IN verse 26 Jesus is speaking of the Holy Ghost bearing witness of Him, and in verse 27 He is saying the disciples will bear witness of him also since the disciples being with Jesus from the start of His ministry.

John 15:26,27
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

The disciples were just men like us and were created by God 9+ months before coming out of their momma just like the rest of us. Nothing suggests they were with God from the very beginning like God's Word was with God spoken of in John 1:1

Do you really think I meant to be say "the Apostles were physically hanging out with Jesus from before the foundation of the world"? You must have, since that's what you argued against.

I said "in some sense" we've "been with Him from the beginning", and then I mentioned having been "written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the earth".
I don't claim to understand these things perfectly, but there is no denying the concepts are being taught--and, to me, that they correspond to one another.

 

[marks]

Then what do these scriptures mean?
Mt 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

is ascending the same as being caught up? Just asking.

No, ascending you do yourself, being caught up happens to you.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Then what do these scriptures mean?
Mt 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven
is ascending the same as being caught up? Just asking.

When one gets born again... they are no longer of this world. (Mt 17:16)

In John 3:13, Jesus is speaking of Himself.

Do you really think I meant to be say "the Apostles were physically hanging out with Jesus from before the foundation of the world"? You must have, since that's what you argued against.

Yes, I thought that was what you were saying.

There are those that believe that

 

[GracePeace]

When one gets born again... they are no longer of this world. (Mt 17:16)

In John 3:13, Jesus is speaking of Himself.

Yeah, no one had ascended to the Father but Christ. I agree.
Again and again, however, it speaks of names written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the Foundation of the earth--that is what I am talking about when I say it sounds like the referent for "you have been with Me from the beginning" ("In the beginning...").

Yes, I thought that was what you were saying.

There are those that believe that

Wow, I've never heard of that. LOL

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Again and again, however, it speaks of names written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the Foundation of the earth--that is what I am talking about when I say it sounds like the referent for "you have been with Me from the beginning" ("In the beginning...").

Yep, that would be the Lord having fore knowledge of us before we were ever created since He knows the end from the beginning.

Wow, I've never heard of that. LOL

Yeah, I don't remember off hand which cult that claims to be Christian that believes people were spirits floating around with God in eternity past and then one day God decides to put us in a body and we pop out of our momma into this world.

Maybe its the mormons or somebody. Mornans think there are people living on the sun and on the moon so they have some freaky beliefs.

 

[GracePeace]

Yep, that would be the Lord having fore knowledge of us before we were ever created since He knows the end from the beginning.

Right, and I'm saying it is plausible that that was what was meant by "...for you have been with Me from the beginning", because John is self-referential, and he has used the phrase "In the beginning" before (John 1:1). Granted, he uses it elsewhere, but it is not by mistake that John used it in Jn 1:1, and then used it to say "you have been with Me from the beginning". John is not using words by mistake. He is using them with intention. He wants us to come to these conclusions. It's just obvious.

Yeah, I don't remember off hand which cult that claims to be Christian that believes people were spirits floating around with God in eternity past and then one day God decides to put us in a body and we pop out of our momma into this world.

Maybe its the mormons or somebody. Mornans think there are people living on the sun and on the moon so they have some freaky beliefs.

LOL