What is speaking in tongues?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Much more to say about all of this. Let me know if you have questions. PM me if you want to chat offline.
@Randy Kluth
I've been at this for over 40 years.
Here's an important observation I made about spiritual gifts.

The term "gifts" is VERY misleading. Better to think of them as manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good." - 1 Cor. 12:7
Notice it is stated as a singular thing in the verse above. "... the manifestation of the Spirit..."
Here's what that means to me.

If we are open to operate in any manifestation of the Spirit that God wants to use, then that
seems to me to be the correct attitude. Avoid the "that's not my gift" mentality.

I have actually been led in single manifestations that never happened again.
Which was a bit concerning originally. But now I get it.

I had a vision that led to a dramatic divine encounter.
I thought it would be a regular thing after that. Nope.

I prayed for someone that was dramatically healed.
I thought I would have a healing ministry going forward. Nope.

At this point I am open to whatever. HOWEVER... I am listening for the call.

/ @Hillsage
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Randy Kluth
I've been at this for over 40 years.
Here's an important observation I made about spiritual gifts.

The term "gifts" is VERY misleading. Better to think of them as manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good." - 1 Cor. 12:7
Notice it is stated as a singular thing in the verse above. "... the manifestation of the Spirit..."
Here's what that means to me.

If we are open to operate in any manifestation of the Spirit that God wants to use, then that
seems to me to be the correct attitude. Avoid the "that's not my gift" mentality.

I have actually been led in single manifestations that never happened again.
Which was a bit concerning originally. But now I get it.

I had a vision that led to a dramatic divine encounter.
I thought it would be a regular thing after that. Nope.

I prayed for someone that was dramatically healed.
I thought I would have a healing ministry going forward. Nope.

At this point I am open to whatever. HOWEVER... I am listening for the call.

/ @Hillsage
I do think in terms of *individual giftings* because that seems to be Paul's point, that some are ears, some are fingers, and some are little toes--all are needed because each is individual.

However, my experience has been similar to yours. I experienced supernatural gifts once with respect to some "manifestations," as you call them. I experienced "supernatural knowledge" sparingly, but in a way that has led to a unique ability I have to discern certain things with the help of God--not foolproof, however.

Like you, I prayed for others to be healed. My answers were not always immediate, but took place relatively quickly. This does not happen often for me.

So you have a point, but I don't know. I keep feeling I'm missing something that Paul seemed to understand. I'm still looking to understand better. Thanks.

Let me just add this. Based on what you're saying I think we can admit that these manifestations do not divide individuals into these "giftings," or "manifestations." Sometimes, however, people have "giftings" that are unique to individuals, such as "those who speak with tongues," and "those who are prophets." Paul spoke rhetorically when he asked, "Are all prophets," or "Do all prophesy?"

I do think some have "healing ministries," but are differentiated by their call to "go out and minister," like the apostles. Not all are called into leadership or into ministry. Some gravitate towards praying for the sick. Some like to minister truth to equip others with the ability to combat error. Some would call them "apologists."

So yes, I think you're right. Separating people individually by these "gifts" makes an error, of sorts. Individuals are not separated by "those who are gifted to speak in tongues" and "those who prophesy." Rather, these are manifestations that are more generally experienced among individuals are are better distinguished by their personality and calling.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good post, thanks.
Like you, I prayed for others to be healed. My answers were not always immediate, but took place relatively quickly. This does not happen often for me.
Here's a tip that might be helpful.
When we pray for the sick/injured, we get a benchmark to work from.
This is a good way to measure progress and build faith toward quicker healing.

On a shoulder injury, for instance, get a range of motion benchmark.
How far can they move the arm before it is painful?

Then pray. Take a break to check range of motion. You will usually see some improvement.
And this builds faith in them and you. Pray some more and check again.
Continue as long as you are seeing improvement. They are usually healed in one session.
Then have them pray for others in the same way.

Building faith this way is important. Even Jesus was thwarted by unbelief in his own hometown.

So you have a point, but I don't know. I keep feeling I'm missing something that Paul seemed to understand. I'm still looking to understand better. Thanks.
This is a pioneering work. We are trying to re-establish something that has been nearly lost over time. Much to relearn.

/
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,180
2,385
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Speaking in tongues... Back in the Pentecostal Holiness glory days...

Begin with song service
People come up between songs to be anointed with oil and prayed for
Continue with songs
Have someone do a special song service
Preaching
Altar

Everyone would do their own little thing. Some would shout, run the aisles, sing, play guitars, play pianos, go around hugging, encourage, pastor to lead service, evangelist to hold revival. With everyone using their gifts together it made for an exciting time as we would go to church anticipating what God was going to do next.

Some important spiritual gifts...

The ability to play musical instruments
Singing
Preaching
Prayer - Sometimes in an unknown language

Without the gifts in music, singing, and preaching our services are pretty much worthless. It takes the whole family coming together with their own unique gifts and ability to make a wonderful service. Speaking in tongues alone is pretty much worthless.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everyone would do their own little thing. Some would shout, run the aisles, sing, play guitars, play pianos, go around hugging, encourage, pastor to lead service, evangelist to hold revival. With everyone using their gifts together it made for an exciting time as we would go to church anticipating what God was going to do next.
That's good, thanks.
Basically the polar opposite of a scripted liturgical service.

/
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,180
2,385
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's good, thanks.
Basically the polar opposite of a scripted liturgical service.

/
My dear sir... Is not the scripted liturgical service a great way of losing a generation? I spent my teenage years in the Michigan tundra. There would be times when the pastor of our GARBC (liturgical Baptist) would take us to youth conference and I would see a worried look on his face on the way up as if to say, "I hope they get something out of this!" Sometimes we would and I would come back wonderfully refreshed. Then there would be times I would look out at the wintry cold tundra and wonder what was more dead and lifeless... The -20*F look outside the window or the church service I was in.

Give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. - 1 Corinthians 7:5

Satan is very good at presenting us a superior way. If we buy into such a life the devil will promise us a life lived in ecstasy. I don't know the first soul I met as friends up there who are Christian. I have come across many who think they have arrived, but I would like to reply in return... "You realize we lost a generation don't you?" Kind of like the difference of the Passionate and the Patient as taken from the Pilgrim's Progress...

I saw, moreover, in my dream, that the Interpreter took him by the hand, and had him into a little room, where sat two little children, each one in his chair. The name of the eldest was Passion, of the other Patience. Passion seemed to be much discontent, but Patience was very quiet. Then Christian asked, What is the reason of the discontent of Passion? The Interpreter answered, the Governor of them would have him stay for his best things, 'till the beginning of the next year; but he will have all now: But Patience is willing to wait.

Then I saw that one came to Passion, and brought him a bag of Treasure, and poured it down at his feet; the which he took up and rejoiced therein, and withall laughed Patience to scorn: But I beheld but a while, and he had lavished all away, and had nothing left him but rags.

Christian: Then said Christian to the Interpreter, Expound this matter more fully to me.

Interpreter: So he said, These two lads are Figures; Passion of the men of this World, and Patience of the men of that which is come: For as here you see, Passion will have all now, this year; that is to say, in this world; so are the men of this world. They must have all their good things now; they cannot stay till next year, that is, until the next world, for their portion of good. That proverb, A Bird in the Hand is worth two in the Bush, is of more authority with them, than are all the Divine testimonies of the Good of the World to come. But as you saw, that he had quickly lavished all away, and had presently left him nothing but rags; so will it be with all such men at the End of this world.

Christian: Then said Christian, Now I see that Patience has the best Wisdom, and that upon many accounts: 1. Because he stays for the best things. 2. And also because he will have the Glory of his, when the other has nothing but rags.

Interpreter: Nay, you may add another, to wit, the Glory of the next World will never wear out; but these are suddenly gone. Therefore Passion had not so much reason to laugh at Patience, because he had his good things first, as Patience will have to laugh at Passion, because he had his best things last; for first must give place to last, because last must have its time to come; but last gives place to nothing; for there is not another to succeed. He therefore that has his portion first, must need have a Time to spend it; but he that has his portion last, must have it lastingly: Therefore it is said of Dives, In your Lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted, and you are tormented.

Christian: Then I perceive it is not best to covet things that are now, but to wait for things to come.

Interpreter: You say truth: For the things that are seen are Temporal; but the things that are not seen are Eternal. But though this be so, yet since things present, and our fleshly appetite are such near neighbors one to another; and again, because things to come, and carnal Sense, are such Strangers one to another: Therefore it is, that the first of these so suddenly fall into Amity, and that Distance is so continued between the second.
passion-and-patience-pilgrim-progress.jpg
 
  • Love
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Great post, thanks.
My dear sir... Is not the scripted liturgical service a great way of losing a generation?
And it certainly worked.

Religious 'Nones' are now the largest single group in the U.S.​


When Americans are asked to check a box indicating their religious affiliation, 28% now check 'none.'
A new study from Pew Research finds that the religiously unaffiliated – a group comprised of atheists, agnostic and those who say their religion is "nothing in particular" – is now the largest cohort in the U.S. They're more prevalent among American adults than Catholics (23%) or evangelical Protestants (24%).
Back in 2007, Nones made up just 16% of Americans, but Pew's new survey of more than 3,300 U.S. adults shows that number has now risen dramatically.
Researchers refer to this group as the "Nones."

/
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,711
2,119
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, I don't agree. A Personal Prayer Language is called "speaking in tongues." You make a distinction between a "gift of tongues" and other kinds of "tongues." It appears to me that all of the "tongues" are "gifts."
Randy,
Glossolalia is mentioned two times in Paul's writings, one in a favorable way and once in a negative way. Paul speaks about it in a negative way in 1 Corinthians because the Corinthians were mistaking glossolalia for the gift of tongues. The positive use of glossolalia is found in Romans 8.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Sometimes, in moments of intense emotions, we may find it hard to articulate our prayers. We may not know what to ask for, but we simply want God to help us. In such times, the Spirit comes to our aid, interceding for us, and praying the right prayer that we need to pray, even when we can't find the right words to say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Randy,
Glossolalia is mentioned two times in Paul's writings, one in a favorable way and once in a negative way. Paul speaks about it in a negative way in 1 Corinthians because the Corinthians were mistaking glossolalia for the gift of tongues. The positive use of glossolalia is found in Romans 8.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Sometimes, in moments of intense emotions, we may find it hard to articulate our prayers. We may not know what to ask for, but we simply want God to help us. In such times, the Spirit comes to our aid, interceding for us, and praying the right prayer that we need to pray, even when we can't find the right words to say.
Brother, I simply cannot say, because I don't speak in tongues. It seems "forced," and certainly does not sound like a "language" at all. By contrast, on the Day of Pentecost this "gift" was associated with speaking, miraculously, to those in their native languages.

Apparently, Paul viewed it also as a private prayer language or a public phenomenon that could be interpreted as if by prophecy. I just don't understand these things, but cannot condemn something that makes little sense to my rational mind. But I'm open to any input on this, including your own. Thank you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,711
2,119
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brother, I simply cannot say, because I don't speak in tongues. It seems "forced," and certainly does not sound like a "language" at all. By contrast, on the Day of Pentecost this "gift" was associated with speaking, miraculously, to those in their native languages.

Apparently, Paul viewed it also as a private prayer language or a public phenomenon that could be interpreted as if by prophecy. I just don't understand these things, but cannot condemn something that makes little sense to my rational mind. But I'm open to any input on this, including your own. Thank you.
What particular passage relates Paul's view that tongues is a prayer language?
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What particular passage relates Paul's view that tongues is a prayer language?
I'm probably unduly influenced by my having been in the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement for about 50 years, but I've long viewed this from Paul's statement that we should keep "speaking in tongues" private unless it is 'interpreted."

1 Cor 14.6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? ...9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. ...13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
...27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
 

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,711
2,119
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm probably unduly influenced by my having been in the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement for about 50 years, but I've long viewed this from Paul's statement that we should keep "speaking in tongues" private unless it is 'interpreted."

1 Cor 14.6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? ...9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. ...13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
...27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
Paul's messages to the Corinthians can be confusing, and so jumping to the middle of his argument should be avoided to understand his teachings in this section of the epistle. We should always begin at the beginning.

1 Corinthians 12:1-3
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Now concerning spirituals . . .
According to the original Greek text, the word "gifts" is not mentioned. Paul's main concern is to compare how the Corinthians were formerly led to how the Holy Spirit will lead them. Whether we are talking about the leading of demons or the Holy Spirit, he refers to the various manifestations of the spirit as "spirituals" or "spiritual things." Formerly they were led by demons, now they are led by the Holy Spirit.

He points out that when they followed pagan beliefs, they were led by mute idols. Elsewhere Paul will associate idol worship with the worship of demons. I suspect that the demons were able to speak through the idol. The idol itself can't speak. Rather, the demon can fool the pagans into accepting that the idol spoke.

For this reason, Paul spends a great amount of time explaining the manifestations and typical behavior of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to distinguish between demonic activity and the Holy Spirit's activity. The primary way to discern the difference is the fact that "no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit."

From this, we learn two important ideas: 1) the primary role of the Holy Spirit is to support the idea that Jesus is Lord. A demon is likely to teach that Jesus is accursed. 2) The Holy Spirit leads the church in spiritual matters such as faith, hope, and love. And according to Jesus, the Spirit of truth would convict them of sin and judgment.

This primary and foundational idea forms the basis of the discussion in chapters 12, 13, and 14. If we lose sight of this foundational idea, we will get confused along the way.

I'm including myself in this because I apply my encouragement to all of us, including myself. The warning applies to me also.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Randy Kluth

Fred J

Active Member
Nov 26, 2023
375
91
28
56
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
So it is up to the Holy Spirit to hand out these gifts.
'Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.'

Doesn't this quote, besides the Holy Spirit, allows us the chose the gifts?
  1. A Christian speaks a real foreign language that he does not know.
Probably they know, based on the church forefathers who translated the Holy Bible in other languages, know very well.
2. A Christian speaks an angelic language publically with interpretation to edify the church. 3. A Christian speaks an angelic language privately to God to edify himself.
Publicly, meaning Outdoor, not sure, scripture mentions, indoor in a gathering, especially about when a stranger, 'walks in'.

Moreover, only two or three are to speak at a time, while the rest take turns.
Not every Christian is required to do any of these. I have done #3 occasionally.
Can you interpret in English what you speak?
 
Last edited:

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
'Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.'

Doesn't this quote, besides the Holy Spirit, allows us the chose the gifts?
Actually, I think Paul is suggesting that we pursue a higher choice among the abilities God has given us. If we're a natural administrator, and also a good typist, we should choose being an administrator over simple typing.

This is obviously not suggesting all have all the gifts, and that we can all choose to prophesy. Paul asked, rhetorically, "Are all prophets?" The obvious answer was, "No!" 1 Cor 12.29.

No, Paul was just giving an example in which case a person should choose a more fruitful gift than a less fruitful one. Rather than speak in a foreign language between ourselves and God, we should speak to people any revelations we have from God. Rather than speak in a foreign tongue, we should speak in the native tongue so as to help others, and not just ourselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Fred J

Active Member
Nov 26, 2023
375
91
28
56
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
Actually, I think Paul is suggesting that we pursue a higher choice among the abilities God has given us. If we're a natural administrator, and also a good typist, we should choose being an administrator over simple typing.

This is obviously not suggesting all have all the gifts, and that we can all choose to prophesy. Paul asked, rhetorically, "Are all prophets?" The obvious answer was, "No!" 1 Cor 12.29.

No, Paul was just giving an example in which case a person should choose a more fruitful gift than a less fruitful one. Rather than speak in a foreign language between ourselves and God, we should speak to people any revelations we have from God. Rather than speak in a foreign tongue, we should speak in the native tongue so as to help others, and not just ourselves.
Got your point, but am perceiving this, that Paul want us all to possess gifts, therefore in charity serve others, rather than one 'self'.

Next, they are not 'foreign language', rather scripturally, 'unknown tongues' or 'tongues of angels'. 'Foreign language', but scripturally, 'tongues of men' poured out on the day of Pentecost. They were for proclaiming the Gospel and making disciple of all nations, they benefited, where in the beginning itself, 3,000 were added to the congregation.

All gifts are from the Holy Spirit and fruitful, if used according to the direction of the Scripture, in 'charity'. He mentions the best gifts that admonish and edifies the whole congregation rather. Are, unknown tongues with interpretation, two or three speak at a time, while the rest take turns. And, prophesy, by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine.

Thank you
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,511
3,841
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good post, thanks.
This is obviously not suggesting all have all the gifts, and that we can all choose to prophesy. Paul asked, rhetorically, "Are all prophets?" The obvious answer was, "No!" 1 Cor 12.29.
The point here, as I understand it, is that God (the Spirit) can use anyone to prophesy, but the one KNOWN to prophesy is a Prophet, (the office/the Gift) Therefore, not all are prophets.

A manifestation of the Holy Spirit can be given to anyone at any time. A Gift of the Spirit stays with the receiver. IMHO
Which would be a person we say HAS a gifting, (a possession)

But in general, we don't possess the gifts, they possess us.

The best posture is to be open to anything God wants to do, IMHO

/
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good post, thanks.

The point here, as I understand it, is that God (the Spirit) can use anyone to prophesy, but the one KNOWN to prophesy is a Prophet, (the office/the Gift) Therefore, not all are prophets.

A manifestation of the Holy Spirit can be given to anyone at any time. A Gift of the Spirit stays with the receiver. IMHO
Which would be a person we say HAS a gifting, (a possession)

But in general, we don't possess the gifts, they possess us.

The best posture is to be open to anything God wants to do, IMHO

/
I like that last statement: "The best posture is to be open to anything God wants to do." Wise man! :)
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ever had such a bad day that you know you need to talk to Father, but don't know what to say? Any moaning or such sound that emanate from me are the best I can do. I would not call it a "language," but I think God knows my trouble.
Do any of us ever have such a "good" day that we know all of the answers God might give us?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Triumph1300

Spyder

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
356
332
63
Holt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do any of us ever have such a "good" day that we know all of the answers God might give us?
No, none of us ever "know all of the answers" because, as I believe, there will arise more questions. I have never searched for answers in community with people who did not speak English.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus