What is the Bible?

[bbyrd009]

btw i think when you go look, Gesara and Gadara are on the same side of Lake Galilee too, iow they did not have to cross the lake to get there from where they were?

 

[bbyrd009]

If you are rejecting the authority of the Bible, then you are rejecting God's authority, because the Bible is God's communication to mankind. We must be careful about that.

but unfortunately your edict may be disputed, see, bc men changed Paul's writings into Scripture, not Yah, and while i might agree with you technically, wadr you use the same method that is used on us to bring us to "Easter" as the Word of Yah, see. "Bible" was surely defined by Paul's wolves, who seek to make an idol of It, while Jesus and Paul make it obvious imo that their wisdom came from writings, many of which were even imported into the Bible? Which we have lists available, if anyone cares

For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

No "Bible" in There anywhere, see, and im here to tell ya i reject "easter" all day long, every day, simply bc it is not Passover, but it is in our english Bibles, right. So nevermind Word, Pneuma, imo, we have a fair amount of work to do to even get to words, Rhema, now

"Authority of the Bible" i cannot find these two words in the same sentence anyway, wadr, so i would ask for a Quote there. And dont get me wrong, in the original languages imo our Writings are sacred and hard to beat, so i sure wouldnt advocate complete rejection or anything like that, however the use of the word "authority" implies Law, right, so imo what you are inviting ppl into is "back to being under Law, you must respect my authority" is the implication i think, which dont get me wrong i love those guys, usually eat one for breakfast bc i can Quote about oh about five vv at them and they run for the shadows too lol. Christ gone destroy all authority, right, and we even have a passage on the demise of the "Bible" dont we?

"Authority of Scripture" cannot be Quoted, wadr, unless it is put some other way that a search is hiding, which is possible

 

[amadeus]

So, would you be saying that Paul is giving false teaching when he said, "Be followers of me as I am of Christ", and he told Timothy to pass on the things he taught him, to faithful men who will teach others. So, if Paul is not wrong when he said those things, then how is it wrong for me to follow John Owen, as he undoubtedly follows Christ in what he teaches?

I don't know anything of John Owen. As to Paul, he in the verse you cite [I Cor 11:1] is warning us that he too is a man. We may indeed follow a man given to us by God [Eph 4:11] to perfect us so that we may become one with Him, but not blindly... Not even Paul should we follow blindly. Rather follow faithfully, and that is blindly with hope [Heb 11:1] the only One described by Jesus as "good" [Mark 10:18].

"For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." I Cor 3:4-6

We could insert also with Paul and Apollos, 'John Owen', could we not? The point is that God gives the increase even if He choose to use an available mouth to speak it.

Do you think that the Holy Spirit would give you special revelation teaching, when there are good men who He has already given insight into Scripture? Does that mean you would go to church and sit under your pastor's preaching because that is just the teaching of man, and you would rather get your own revelations from the Holy Spirit directly?

The teachings of men in the past may be sincere, but along with that sincerity it may be that they also were deceived or misunderstood. That is between them and God. I am not their judge. For me...?

I don't arbitrarily disregard the teachings of men, in person, online or in writing written long before I was born... unless led to do so by the Holy Spirit. God sent ministers to perfect us, to edify us [Eph 4:11-13], but they also are men. We search the scriptures to confirm what they say is there and we talk to God so that the Holy Spirit will always be sifting through it all, separating the lies from the truth. Every man who is still incomplete or imperfect is a liar. Sometimes it is unintentional because of his own ignorance or deceptions. If he is a man truly sent by God as our teacher or minister, then we should follow him as he follows Jesus. But... we should not presume that he is never in error. Give him the honor due but always stay in touch with God ourselves for clarification or correction...

Why would Jesus tell His Apostles to go into all the world and make disciples for Him, when the people could just get direct revelation from the Holy Spirit instead of listening to "the teachings of man"?

Already answered!

 

[bbyrd009]

So the man went away and began to tell in the Decapolis how much Jesus had done for him. And all the people were amazed.

What we have here are accounts of the same incident from two different people.

ah, three i guess actually yeh

One might have been present to witness the events first hand, and the other may have heard about the event second hand.

in that case seems to me one of them would have been stoned to death, as was the custom then?

After all, this is narrative, and not something to build a doctrine on.

wait werent you just arguing for the "authority of the Bible" m christensen?

 

[bbyrd009]

imo beware of ppl who insist on the "authority" of the Bible but cannot Quote that at you, and then they will in the next breath almost surely be insisting "kjv only" right, you have to read a version of the Bible that is not even in your language next, usually? No offense meant to m christensen or pEnoch, i understand where this comes from--seminaries i guess, mostly--but consider how that is a way to "split ppl away from the herd" so to speak, and imo at least test for yourself. You decide, not us :)

 

[mjrhealth]

If I may I would like to quite Ellen White on the authority of scripture. This may come as a surprise to many, considering most believe Adventists follow her, rather than scripture...
Christ foresaw that the undue assumption of authority indulged by the scribes and Pharisees would not cease with the dispersion of the Jews. He had a prophetic view of the work of exalting human authority to rule the conscience, which has been so terrible a curse to the church in all ages. And his fearful denunciations of the scribes and Pharisees, and his warnings to the people not to follow these blind leaders, were placed on record as an admonition to future generations.
The Romish Church reserves to the clergy the right to interpret the Scriptures. On the ground that ecclesiastics alone are competent to explain God's Word, it is withheld from the common people. Though the Reformation gave the Scriptures to all, yet the self-same principle which was maintained by Rome prevents multitudes in Protestant churches from searching the Bible for themselves. They are taught to accept its teachings as interpreted by the church; and there are thousands who dare receive nothing, however plainly revealed in Scripture, that is contrary to their creed, or the established teaching of their church. GC88 596.1 - GC88 596.2

And nothing has changed for any religion, it is al the same

Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

and we are supposed to follow Christ not Scripture.

 

[amadeus]

And nothing has changed for any religion, it is al the same

Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

and we are supposed to follow Christ not Scripture.

But people really do confuse the two [Christ and Scripture] or use one when they should be using the other and do not even realize it. Simple ignorance is an excuse for a time, but there is time limit:

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" Acts 17:30

The ones ignorant here are not unbelievers or scoffers who are already dead. The ignorant are those who have heard from God in the past and simply stopped listening. Therefore they do not hear when He tells them what they need to do. They are without excuse. We cannot easily discern who they so we simply warn everyone and pray that those who used to listen will now wash out their ears and listen anew.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

Some have also lost their first love of truth or never loved the truth in the first place and are now in delusion. If they never come to love the Truth, they will be deceived until there is no time left for them to make a change. A person does not accidently go into delusion so he also is without excuse.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

 

[mjrhealth]

But people really do confuse the two [Christ and Scripture] or use one when they should be using the other and do not even realize it. Simple ignorance is an excuse for a time, but there is time limit:

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" Acts 17:30

The ones ignorant here are not unbelievers or scoffers who are already dead. The ignorant are those who have heard from God in the past and simply stopped listening. Therefore they do not hear when He tells them what they need to do. They are without excuse. We cannot easily discern who they so we simply warn everyone and pray that those who used to listen will now wash out their ears and listen anew.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

Some have also lost their first love of truth or never loved the truth in the first place and are now in delusion. If they never come to love the Truth, they will be deceived until there is no time left for them to make a change. A person does not accidently go into delusion so he also is without excuse.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

Amen to that

 

[Brakelite]

And then there is the class who reject the commandments of God as written, saying they are following Christ, as if the two are not in agreement.
To the law and to the testimony. If the do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20
KJV 2 Peter 1
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

@mjrhealth I think if you are going to continue to claim you are following Jesus without the Bible, then why not quote Jesus without the Bible?

 

[mjrhealth]

And then there is the class who reject the commandments of God as written, saying they are following Christ, as if the two are not in agreement.
To the law and to the testimony. If the do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20
KJV 2 Peter 1
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

@mjrhealth I think if you are going to continue to claim you are following Jesus without the Bible, then why not quote Jesus without the Bible?

Its no me or those who follow Christ who need the bible it is those who dont. You wont listen to anything else, you just gave BOL a bollocking over His religion yet yours does exactly the same thing, He quotes the bible He quotes the bible, if the Bible is the word of God that makes you both right so why you telling Him hes wrong, oh thats right you listen to your religions doctrines and you religion is right and everyone else is wrong. There is only one Truth His name is Jesus when people find Him they will find the truth and they will be free.

 

[Brakelite]

Its no me or those who follow Christ who need the bible it is those who dont. You wont listen to anything else, you just gave BOL a bollocking over His religion yet yours does exactly the same thing, He quotes the bible He quotes the bible, if the Bible is the word of God that makes you both right so why you telling Him hes wrong, oh thats right you listen to your religions doctrines and you religion is right and everyone else is wrong. There is only one Truth His name is Jesus when people find Him they will find the truth and they will be free.

Yet right there you quoted the Bible to substantiate your views.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yet right there you quoted the Bible to substantiate your views.

Yep thats what you do isnt it??, everyone uses it to tell everyone else they are wrong, There is only one truth His name is Jesus, what wrong with Him and the Spirit of God HE promised us, out of date I suppose.

Isnt Gods word Life, so why is it all I see on here is death and imprisonment.

 

[Brakelite]

Yep thats what you do isnt it??, everyone uses it to tell everyone else they are wrong, There is only one truth His name is Jesus, what wrong with Him and the Spirit of God HE promised us, out of date I suppose.

Isnt Gods word Life, so why is it all I see on here is death and imprisonment.

You think the scriptures are out of date and you can rely on the 'spirit' to reveal truth without confirmation from scripture? In some places where the scriptures are unavailable, and I'm times when scriptures were few, yes, God has revealed Himself to man and shown him the way to life. That's because God is gracious and merciful. Which is what the focus of the OP was all about. The scriptures aren't the only means by which God reveals Himself to man. In this I agree with you. But if that revelation by whatever spirit is operating contradicts the scriptures, on whose authority do you operate by to tell others they are in error because they choose to obey scripture, accepting scripture as God's will for them? No where does scripture teach that it has no authority. God's spoken word, whether written or audible, has authority, and when someone comes along claiming to hear God speaking and what is being related contradicts the scriptures and recommends ignoring them, I sure have an issue with that.

 

[mjrhealth]

You think the scriptures are out of date and you can rely on the 'spirit' to reveal truth without confirmation from scripture?

Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Yep just look at this forum here you are lviing a lie yet claiming you speak the truth, your cchurch is right yet everyone elses is wrong because you read the bible, and they all do exactly the same thing, As Jesus put it 'In the "Bible".

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

or is it this part you might have missed

Luk_9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

but people have no faith in God

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and all you will do is spend you whole life like others defending there religion

Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

so many have chosen another path and because of there choice will not enter in.

Religion. SDA catlic JW doesnt matter there is only one way, if you dont want it that is your choosing.

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But5 who needs Him, men have there Idol, the bible that is placed in greater Esteem than the Word Himself, Jesus Christ,