What is the difference between a Jew and a Christian?

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Reggie Belafonte

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Christianity began as a sect of Judaism.
Wrong, that is coming from a carnal persons perspective that clearly does not understand the reality.

Their was no sect of Christians at all, for they were not Christians until Jesus went to Heaven in fact, that's when Christianity kicked off in fact !

The Disciples of Jesus did not know that he was the Christ totally until he went to Heaven in fact, they had faith that he was, but that faith could of failed ? but they only got the message after Jesus had gone to Heaven in fact ! that's when they were truly born again in fact !

As Jesus was saying of Nathaniel ? what did Jesus say to Nathaniel and what would Nathaniel see ! get it ! bingo !! That's what they seen, that path was open to them ! Nathaniel was a True Israelite in fact ! and Jesus never mentioned any other Jew as he did Nathaniel !

Remember the Vineyard story, that proves that the Leadership of the Jews was corrupt as Hell ! for they killed everyone of Gods Prophets in fact ! for they were not on track with God in fact ! The had that bastard Star with them, that ST Stephen pointed out what it truly is, a mans works and not of God at all in fact, it's in Acts, where ST Stephen pointed out the history of the Jews and they turned and Killed him ! Remember who it is who kills people, for they are of their Father who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning !
 

Matthias

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Wrong, that is coming from a carnal persons perspective that clearly does not understand the reality.

Their was no sect of Christians at all, for they were not Christians until Jesus went to Heaven in fact, that's when Christianity kicked off in fact !

The Disciples of Jesus did not know that he was the Christ totally until he went to Heaven in fact, they had faith that he was, but that faith could of failed ? but they only got the message after Jesus had gone to Heaven in fact ! that's when they were truly born again in fact !

As Jesus was saying of Nathaniel ? what did Jesus say to Nathaniel and what would Nathaniel see ! get it ! bingo !! That's what they seen, that path was open to them ! Nathaniel was a True Israelite in fact ! and Jesus never mentioned any other Jew as he did Nathaniel !

Remember the Vineyard story, that proves that the Leadership of the Jews was corrupt as Hell ! for they killed everyone of Gods Prophets in fact ! for they were not on track with God in fact ! The had that bastard Star with them, that ST Stephen pointed out what it truly is, a mans works and not of God at all in fact, it's in Acts, where ST Stephen pointed out the history of the Jews and they turned and Killed him ! Remember who it is who kills people, for they are of their Father who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning !

It comes from numerous Christian sources.

I would avoid accusing those who disagree of being carnal. That’s a weak-minded approach. Christians can (and sometimes do) disagree among themselves. That doesn’t make any of them carnal.
 

Matthias

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“Most current scholarship agrees that Christianity began not as a separate religion, but as a sect of Judaism. In the early first century CE, Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah were simply one sect among many.”

(Joshua Schachterle, “Jewish and Christian Traditions in the Didache”)

 

Eliyahu613

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The Christian website linked in this post is popular with many, but not all, Christians @Eliyahu613.

It attempts to list messianic prophecies. Please note that it doesn’t include Genesis 5:24. Please also note that it speaks about the difficulty of putting together such a list, that lists vary, and doesn’t claim that there aren’t others.


Some might say that the Christians behind this website are being conservative and, at the same time, generous to other Christians. They are open to the possibility that there may be others.

As I’ve mentioned, I’m persuaded where I find a NT writer (all Jews, with the probable exception of Luke) documenting apostolic belief that a passage is a messianic prophecy.
Bs"d

So I'll give you some "messianic prophecies" brought to us by the NT. Fasten your seat belt:


The NT brings us prophecies of which it claims that they are fulfilled by JC.
Let us take a closer look at those. The first one we find in Matthew 1:21; “she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us).”
This text can be found in Isaiah 7:14; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el.” Revised Standard Version.
We see here that here in Isaiah is not spoken about a virgin, but about a young woman. It is of course much more normal that a young woman gets pregnant than that a virgin gets pregnant. But Isaiah clearly speaks about a young woman, and not a virgin. Some translations say, for instance the King James, say in Isaiah 7:14 “virgin”, and not “young woman”, but that is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah”, and that means “young woman”, and not virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin is “betulah”. That word is used for instance when the Torah speaks about Rebecca in Gen 24:16; “The maiden was very fair to look upon, a virgin, whom no man had known.”

This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators. For instance the New English Bible, the Good News Bible, the Revised Standard Version, and the New World Translation have translated this in the right way, and not as “virgin”.

So the NT has been misquoting the Hebrew Bible.
Nowhere in the Tanach (Tanach is compilation of the first letters of the three parts of the Hebrew Bible, Torah, Nevi'iem, (prophets), and Chetuviem, (writings)) is a virgin to be found who would get pregnant. In fact, NOWHERE in the Tanach does a virgin bear a child. This concept is only to be found in pagan mythology.
And when we look at the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that it doesn't speak about the messiah. It speaks about God giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have peace in his days.
This chapter has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever.
What the NT does is ripping a text out of context, mistranslating it, and presenting it as a messianic prophecy.

A more in depth look at Isaiah 7:14 can be found here: Isaiah 7


Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:14 “And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."”

Here a text from Hosea 11: 1 which says: “out of Egypt I called my son” and is applied to the messiah.
But let's take a look WHO is the “son of God” in the Tanach: “And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Exodus 4:22
This is clear language. And also in Hosea 11:1 it CLEARLY speaks about Israel, which has been led out of slavery from Egypt by God. See here Hosea 11:1 complete, and not a part ripped out of context: “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”
Just read the whole chapter of Hosea 11 and see that it all speaks about Israel, and not about the messiah.
What the NT is doing here once again is ripping a piece of text out of context which has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and then present it as a “messianic prophecy”. Something it obviously is not.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:16-18 “Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah: “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."”
Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about a slaughter of children, taking place in the days of the messiah.

And now read what is really happening there: Jeremiah 31: “10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands afar off; say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.' 11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him. 12 They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more. 13 Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow. 14 I will feast the soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, says the LORD." 15 Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are not." 16 Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. 17 There is hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back to their own country.”

As everyone can see, this speaks about Israel which went into exile, and of whom God says that they will return from the exile back to the land of Israel.

Another text which has no bearing on the slaughter of children in the days of messiah which is ripped out of context by the NT and is presented to us as a “messianic prophecy”.

To be continued bs"d
 

Eliyahu613

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Bs"d

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 2:23 “And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."”
This prophecy won't take up much time, because you can go through the whole Hebrew Bible, and NOWHERE is it written that the messiah should live in Nazareth, or the he should be called “Nazarene”.

So the NT is also giving non-existing prophecies.



Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"

Matthew 27: "3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

This OT text can by found in Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."

As we see here in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.

As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.

No potter to be found?

No potter to be found.

The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.

In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".

In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.

So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.

This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".

Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".

The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."

Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."


So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.

Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.

And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.

Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.

Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.

And this is supposed to "prove" that JC is the messiah.


Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.


Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Luke 24: “44 Then he said to them, "These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, 46 and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

But the problem is: NOWHERE in the Tanach is it written that “the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

Another NT quote of OT prophecy which is nowhere to be found in the OT.
 
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Eliyahu613

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The Christian website linked in this post is popular with many, but not all, Christians @Eliyahu613.

It attempts to list messianic prophecies. Please note that it doesn’t include Genesis 5:24. Please also note that it speaks about the difficulty of putting together such a list, that lists vary, and doesn’t claim that there aren’t others.

Bs"d

This list of "messianic prophecies" is not much better than the one the Baptists. Note that it also includes "types" as messianic prophecies, such as: They did a kind of the same thing, therefore what the person in the Tanach did is supposed to be a "messianic prophecy".

That has of course nothing to do with a messianic prophecy.

And they also bring "messianic prophecies" from the NT in stead of from the Tanach. JC said he was going to suffer, and he suffered, therefore he fulfilled a messianic prophecy.

That has of course nothing to do with a messianic prophecy.

And still a lot of those "messianic prophecies" are based on mistranslations, for instance Isaiah 7:14, Zech 11:12-13, and others.

Like I said before; these hundreds of messianic prophecies just don't exist.
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

So I'll give you some "messianic prophecies" brought to us by the NT. Fasten your seat belt:


The NT brings us prophecies of which it claims that they are fulfilled by JC.
Let us take a closer look at those. The first one we find in Matthew 1:21; “she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us).”
This text can be found in Isaiah 7:14; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el.” Revised Standard Version.
We see here that here in Isaiah is not spoken about a virgin, but about a young woman. It is of course much more normal that a young woman gets pregnant than that a virgin gets pregnant. But Isaiah clearly speaks about a young woman, and not a virgin. Some translations say, for instance the King James, say in Isaiah 7:14 “virgin”, and not “young woman”, but that is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah”, and that means “young woman”, and not virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin is “betulah”. That word is used for instance when the Torah speaks about Rebecca in Gen 24:16; “The maiden was very fair to look upon, a virgin, whom no man had known.”

This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators. For instance the New English Bible, the Good News Bible, the Revised Standard Version, and the New World Translation have translated this in the right way, and not as “virgin”.

So the NT has been misquoting the Hebrew Bible.
Nowhere in the Tanach (Tanach is compilation of the first letters of the three parts of the Hebrew Bible, Torah, Nevi'iem, (prophets), and Chetuviem, (writings)) is a virgin to be found who would get pregnant. In fact, NOWHERE in the Tanach does a virgin bear a child. This concept is only to be found in pagan mythology.
And when we look at the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that it doesn't speak about the messiah. It speaks about God giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have peace in his days.
This chapter has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever.
What the NT does is ripping a text out of context, mistranslating it, and presenting it as a messianic prophecy.

A more in depth look at Isaiah 7:14 can be found here: Isaiah 7


Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:14 “And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."”

Here a text from Hosea 11: 1 which says: “out of Egypt I called my son” and is applied to the messiah.
But let's take a look WHO is the “son of God” in the Tanach: “And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Exodus 4:22
This is clear language. And also in Hosea 11:1 it CLEARLY speaks about Israel, which has been led out of slavery from Egypt by God. See here Hosea 11:1 complete, and not a part ripped out of context: “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”
Just read the whole chapter of Hosea 11 and see that it all speaks about Israel, and not about the messiah.
What the NT is doing here once again is ripping a piece of text out of context which has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and then present it as a “messianic prophecy”. Something it obviously is not.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:16-18 “Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah: “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."”
Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about a slaughter of children, taking place in the days of the messiah.

And now read what is really happening there: Jeremiah 31: “10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands afar off; say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.' 11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him. 12 They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more. 13 Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow. 14 I will feast the soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, says the LORD." 15 Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are not." 16 Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. 17 There is hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back to their own country.”

As everyone can see, this speaks about Israel which went into exile, and of whom God says that they will return from the exile back to the land of Israel.

Another text which has no bearing on the slaughter of children in the days of messiah which is ripped out of context by the NT and is presented to us as a “messianic prophecy”.

To be continued bs"d

Thanks. The NT believers in Jesus see the messiah as the ideal Israelite.
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 2:23 “And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."”
This prophecy won't take up much time, because you can go through the whole Hebrew Bible, and NOWHERE is it written that the messiah should live in Nazareth, or the he should be called “Nazarene”.

So the NT is also giving non-existing prophecies.



Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"

Matthew 27: "3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

This OT text can by found in Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."

As we see here in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.

As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.

No potter to be found?

No potter to be found.

The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.

In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".

In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.

So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.

This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".

Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".

The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."

Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."


So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.

Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.

And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.

Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.

Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.

And this is supposed to "prove" that JC is the messiah.


Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.


Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Luke 24: “44 Then he said to them, "These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, 46 and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

But the problem is: NOWHERE in the Tanach is it written that “the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

Another NT quote of OT prophecy which is nowhere to be found in the OT.

Have you not consulted any of the Christian commentaries?

For example, in regard to Matthew 2:23, the one which you spent no time at all on:

 

Matthias

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Bs"d

This list of "messianic prophecies" is not much better than the one the Baptists. Note that it also includes "types" as messianic prophecies, such as: They did a kind of the same thing, therefore what the person in the Tanach did is supposed to be a "messianic prophecy".

That has of course nothing to do with a messianic prophecy.

And they also bring "messianic prophecies" from the NT in stead of from the Tanach. JC said he was going to suffer, and he suffered, therefore he fulfilled a messianic prophecy.

That has of course nothing to do with a messianic prophecy.

And still a lot of those "messianic prophecies" are based on mistranslations, for instance Isaiah 7:14, Zech 11:12-13, and others.

Like I said before; these hundreds of messianic prophecies just don't exist.

They exist. That you don’t apply them to the man whom you’re expecting is what interests me.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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It comes from numerous Christian sources.

I would avoid accusing those who disagree of being carnal. That’s a weak-minded approach. Christians can (and sometimes do) disagree among themselves. That doesn’t make any of them carnal.
Problem is most are carnal and only religious dupes in fact, Just like Pope Frances clearly is only a stupid carnal moron in fact, i can see it in his works.
Jesus said you will know them by their works !

When one boast of their religion ? So does the Atheist boast ! for everyone is religious in fact regardless what they may think or claim !

One must be truly born again, that's the Key to Christ Jesus in fact, outside of that is worthless.

Plenty of so called Priest who are totally Anti-Christ in fact ! just look at all of the TV ones over the years that have been proven to be Anti-Christ ! full on criminals !
 

Pierac

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The truth is you rip Jesus out of all those scriptures.
What you fail to see is... I did not write those scriptures.... So because it proves you wrong... You assume... I and not the God of Jesus ripped Him out!!!

Pay attention:

NASB and Me Act 2:22 "Ronald David Bruno, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves (should) know--

Listen to Jesus Himself.... Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
That's right Jesus has a God..... Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him. Who Gave Him Ronald????

Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."

Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."

Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

Jesus has a GOD!!!

John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Revelation 3:2 - "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

This is important..... Who is worthy to approach GOD and take the Book!

Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders throw themselves to the ground before the one who sits on the throne and worship the one who lives forever and ever, and they offer their crowns before his throne, saying: "You are worthy, our Lord and God, ...
Rev 5:1 I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?"

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb (Jesus) standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

Rev 5:7 And He (Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of Him (GOD) who sat on the throne.

You beginning to see yet????
 
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WalterandDebbie

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But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".
Hello Eliyahu613,
Sunday 10-9-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tishri 12 5783 18th. Fall Day

Genesis One:26 In this scripture, I believe, And God said, "Let us" is referring to: Elohim

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean.

In Acts 17, Paul is speaking on Mars Hill to the philosophers of Athens. As he argues against idolatry, Paul says, “Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device” (Acts 17:29, KJV). Here, the word Godhead is the translation of the Greek theion, a word used by the Greeks to denote “God” in general, with no reference to a particular deity. Paul, speaking to Greeks, used the term in reference to the only true God.

In Romans 1, Paul begins to make the case that all humanity stands guilty before God. In verse 20 he says, “The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (KJV). Here, Godhead is theiotés. Paul’s argument is that all of creation virtually shouts the existence of God; we can “clearly” see God’s eternal power, as well as His “Godhead” in what He has made. “The heavens declare the glory of God; / the skies proclaim the work of his hands” (Psalm 19:1). The natural world makes manifest the divine nature of God.

Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés. According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].”

Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3).

To be continued...

Monday 10-10-22 2nd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tishri 13 5783 19th. Fall Day

Why does God refer to Himself in the plural in Genesis One:26 and 3:22?

Genesis 1:26 says, “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’” Genesis 3:22 states, “And the LORD God said, ‘The man has now become like one of us.’”

There are other passages in the Old Testament in which God refers to Himself using plural constructions. It is also interesting to note that Elohim, one of the primary titles of God in the Old Testament (occurring over 2,500 times), is in the plural form.

Some people have used these verses to hypothesize that there are more than one God. However, we can rule out polytheism (belief in multiple gods), because that would contradict countless other Scriptures that tell us that God is one and that there is only one God. Three times in Isaiah 45 alone, God states, “I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God besides Me” (vv. 5, 6, 18).

A second possible explanation for God’s referring to Himself in the plural is that God was including the angels in His statement. In saying “us” and “our,” God was speaking of all the heavenly host, Himself included. However, the Bible nowhere states that angels have the same “image” or “likeness” as God (see Genesis 1:26). That description is given to humanity alone.

To be continued...

Love, Walter and Debbie
 
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Matthias

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There is no plurality in the messiah’s God.

It’s remarkable how little weight is typically given to what the messiah himself says about the one God.
 

Matthias

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Hello Eliyahu613,
Sunday 10-9-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tishri 12 5783 18th. Fall Day

Genesis One:26 In this scripture, I believe, And God said, "Let us" is referring to: Elohim

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean.

In Acts 17, Paul is speaking on Mars Hill to the philosophers of Athens. As he argues against idolatry, Paul says, “Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device” (Acts 17:29, KJV). Here, the word Godhead is the translation of the Greek theion, a word used by the Greeks to denote “God” in general, with no reference to a particular deity. Paul, speaking to Greeks, used the term in reference to the only true God.

In Romans 1, Paul begins to make the case that all humanity stands guilty before God. In verse 20 he says, “The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (KJV). Here, Godhead is theiotés. Paul’s argument is that all of creation virtually shouts the existence of God; we can “clearly” see God’s eternal power, as well as His “Godhead” in what He has made. “The heavens declare the glory of God; / the skies proclaim the work of his hands” (Psalm 19:1). The natural world makes manifest the divine nature of God.

Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés. According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].”

Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3).

To be continued...

Monday 10-10-22 2nd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tishri 13 5783 19th. Fall Day

Why does God refer to Himself in the plural in Genesis One:26 and 3:22?

Genesis 1:26 says, “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’” Genesis 3:22 states, “And the LORD God said, ‘The man has now become like one of us.’”

There are other passages in the Old Testament in which God refers to Himself using plural constructions. It is also interesting to note that Elohim, one of the primary titles of God in the Old Testament (occurring over 2,500 times), is in the plural form.

Some people have used these verses to hypothesize that there are more than one God. However, we can rule out polytheism (belief in multiple gods), because that would contradict countless other Scriptures that tell us that God is one and that there is only one God. Three times in Isaiah 45 alone, God states, “I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God besides Me” (vv. 5, 6, 18).

A second possible explanation for God’s referring to Himself in the plural is that God was including the angels in His statement. In saying “us” and “our,” God was speaking of all the heavenly host, Himself included. However, the Bible nowhere states that angels have the same “image” or “likeness” as God (see Genesis 1:26). That description is given to humanity alone.

Since the Bible, and the New Testament especially, presents God as a Trinity (three Persons but only one God), Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 can only represent a conversation within the Trinity. God the Father is having a “conversation” with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

The Old Testament hints at the plurality of God, and the New Testament clarifies this plurality with the doctrine of the Trinity. Obviously, there is no way we can fully understand how this works, but God has given us enough information to know that He does exist in three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him.

The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

Trinity Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

To be continued...
Love, Walter and Debbie

Is discussion of the Trinity no longer prohibited?
 

WalterandDebbie

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There is no plurality in the messiah’s God.

It’s remarkable how little weight is typically given to what the messiah himself says about the one God.
Hello Matthias,
Elohim: The first place a name of God is revealed is in the first chapter of Genesis. Here we find Elohim (God) repeated in almost every verse. Elohim is a plural noun, which is first and primarily used in Scripture to describe the one true God Family, which includes God the Father and our Creator-Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

What the Bible says about Elohim - Bible Tools

Love, Walter
 

Matthias

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Not known.

For the sake of trinitarians, I would like to see the policy prohibiting discussion of the Trinity reversed but I don’t think it has. If it has, I missed the announcement.

Does it matter to you if the prohibition is still in place? Would you defy the policy and discuss the subject anyway?
 

Matthias

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Hello Matthias,
Elohim: The first place a name of God is revealed is in the first chapter of Genesis. Here we find Elohim (God) repeated in almost every verse. Elohim is a plural noun, which is first and primarily used in Scripture to describe the one true God Family, which includes God the Father and our Creator-Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

What the Bible says about Elohim - Bible Tools

Love, Walter

Elohim is a a Hebrew word that is always plural in form but may be either singular or plural in meaning. When used in reference to Yahweh it is always singular in meaning.

In your thinking, is the messiah’s elohim a person or a family?