skypair said:
Sure, but it is a command .. there is an understood "(You) escape…" or as my KJV says, "Save yourselves from this…" In this case (2:40) it means to be baptized in water converting to Christian from Jew. But baptism (the baptism of repentance) is a figure of something you did spiritually. You repented to God from your sin nature turning to His divine nature — you were thereby forgiven and regenerated (Acts 2:38).
Well to Jews Christianity is not a conversion, rather a completion or fulfillment. The repentance had to do with how they thought of the Christ they called to be crucified. Repentance has everything to do with the person and work of Jesus Christ.
Again we can not save ourselves. God saves us. You used this verse out of context to attempt to prove your point in an improper fashion.
skypair said:
Yes, the application of that Spirit is unto sanctification .. but repentance is unto the justification, the forgiveness of sins, which MUST come first. Forgiven = justified .. regenerated = sanctified.
Romans 5:1
Therefore,
having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law
but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus,
so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Justification is the work of God where the righteousness of Jesus is reckoned to the believing sinner. It is not earned nor retained by human effort and is based solely on Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and faith in such. Do not be confused. I am not associating your argument of repentance with works of the Law, rather I argue biblical repentance in association with salvation is the changing of thinking concerning the work and person of Jesus Christ.
skypair said:
See, here is a good demonstration of the sovereignty of God. It is NOT that God changes the will of man or that He makes him run .. it is that God is sovereign over the OUTCOME of our choices. So who do you think God is going to favor when 2 men come to him, one repenting of sin and the other presuming that God has chosen him? God controls the outcome. He chooses the one who wants to be reconciled and have a valid relationship with Him.
God is sovereign over all of creation. (Ephesians 1:11)
Lets look to how God chose to stop Paul in his "free-will" decision to capture and persecute Christians on the road to Damascus. Jesus blinded him and sent him on a completely different mission. Jesus determined to show Paul how much he must suffer for for His name.
Here is what Scripture teaches about man's self determinism:
The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord;
He turns it wherever He wishes.
Many are the plans in the mind of a man,
but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand.
God is ultimately the determining factor.
Then lets look to the words of Jesus:
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that
no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
Jesus is explicit. It must be granted by the Father that individuals come to Him, meaning in faith.
Then lets look even to repentance:
The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps
God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
God grants repentance...
skypair said:
the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to [/size]His choice would [/size]stand, not [/size]because of works but [/size]because of Him who calls,[/size]
Paul is explicitly excluding love, worship, repentance, broken-heartedness, even faith or any human action be it physical or spiritual. The twins were not even born yet, they did nothing. God's choice is based upon Himself and depends on nothing outside Himself. This is explicit and clear in Scripture. Thus calling or election is not dependent on foreknowledge, rather on God's Sovereign choice.
Hard as this may be for you to believe, this isn't talking about Jacob or Esau — God loved them both. They were His "offspring," Acts 17:27-28. This quote comes from Mal 2:3 and refers to their descendants. And His calling refers to the calling of Jacob to be the father of 12 tribes of Israel .. and Esau to be the father of 12 tribes of Arabs.
I fully understand where this quote comes from. Yet lets look to how Paul is using it in this context:
Paul is stating God chose Jacob from before he was born to become the nation He intended to use for His namesake. Again this is a verse of the sovereign election of the individual called Jacob. Your point makes no difference in my argument. Just as other Scriptures affirm, it was God that selected Israel out of all the nations of the world for His namesake. And in this portion of Scripture God selected Jacob to be the father of that nation.
Then continue reading the Scripture in context: Paul assumes retort and your very argument, that God is unjust in selecting certain individuals. This only further confirms my interpretation. Then Paul moves to the negative side of choice where God chose to harden Pharaoh. Paul drives home his argument: So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Then Paul continues to preemptively defend his argument by posing the question, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Why do people try to circumvent the plainness of Scripture in this context other than to assert their dogmatic eisegital approach to interpretation?
skypair said:
Perhaps you are unaware but your tradition originated with Augustine, a saint from the eastern form of Christianity. As such, he was highly influenced by Greek philosophy and captivated with the idea that Greek philosophy could be infused into Christianity much like pagan sacrifices/sacraments had been in the western form. So what comes of that is totally sovereign God, fate rather than free will, monergistic unconditional election, irresistible grace, etc. — all things that are antithetical to the biblical God. See, folks in the east would understand this and come into the church readily.
skypair
The tradition I follow originated with the Apostles.